Large Map and New Civilizations are now playable

Any England tips so far?
I find the lack of Scotland super rough. There's barely any tiles so I find it hard to squeeze between production and commerce.
The plague also destroyed me. Manchester went from 7 pop to 2 pop, there goes half my entire economy.
 
Tried a new Japan strategy this morning. I thought to myself, "30,000 culture in general, no more 6000 average required, this sounds like Leoreth wants the player to conquer Korea like Toyotomi Hideyoshi wanted to!" So I built an army, I build a fleet, heavy opportunity cost from culture buildings and great artist production. But it's okay, Korea usually has culture-

Nope. 289 culture in Seoul after sparing the city, in 1450. So it looks like conquering Korea or even China for additional culture isn't realistic as of right now. I'll try again with the usual great artist spam another time.

I am vaguely concerned about controlling China in 1940. The new China region is massive, and there's a very real risk you could get bogged down in a forever war in there, just like the real IJA did. I could play a 1700 game to fast forward to the fun part of the UHV but that means dealing with Britain having radio in 1880.

The plague also destroyed me. Manchester went from 7 pop to 2 pop, there goes half my entire economy.
Historically accurate, working as intended!
 
@Leoreth is this intended, the -3 happiness from "the world considers you a villain"? I'm running despotism+conquest to whip out an army, I think it also occurred when I ran monarchy+conquest, but not monarchy+tributaries.
For context I have pretty satisfactory relations with the rest of the world.

If intended, it's a very penalising debuff, basically hard locks my cities.
 

Attachments

  • england.png
    england.png
    2.1 MB · Views: 183
I remember that one from base BTS, pretty sure it comes from defying Apostolic Palace/UN resolutions?

Edit: or it could just be life in Britain, even in 1135 they know they're destined to conquer a quarter of the world.
 
I remember that one from base BTS, pretty sure it comes from defying Apostolic Palace/UN resolutions?

Edit: or it could just be life in Britain, even in 1135 they know they're destined to conquer a quarter of the world.
Oh that makes sense, it's probably from voting "never!" in "send inquisition to England". Thanks.
 
Any England tips so far?
I find the lack of Scotland super rough. There's barely any tiles so I find it hard to squeeze between production and commerce.
The plague also destroyed me. Manchester went from 7 pop to 2 pop, there goes half my entire economy.
I haven't gone for a determined UHV run but messed around for maybe a few dozen turns. Ireland seems to be the new Scotland for production at least and stands alone just fine, possibly even better. The real tough decisions will revolve entirely around Tile Distribution on GB and this can reach all the way to grand strategy: Do you put all the chips on London and castrate Manchester/York which in turn renders Edinburgh barely useful? I casually tried the classic Santa Maria del Fiore gambit and got it comfortably on Monarch with a simple Patronage beeline. After that with Tributaries the other three cities had only one job and that was to supply London with Skirms for Happiness to fuel the Specialist economy, which as before the Isles are more suited to. That at least got to me to the Reformation and part way into the Colonization phase. As for actually achieving the UHVs I kinda have no idea what position I was in, especially the Cape-Cairo railroad. I'd also admit the goal might seem more daunting than it actually is simply because I've never interacted with these areas of the map (Rift Valley) old or new and so didnt have a plan I could easily visualize, especially with timing (take a chance on an early strike on Egypt or risk having to outslog a possible GigaOtto?) I can report that Eastern North America is a stronger asset on the new map and is all Historical territory now and leveraging it early to make up for weaker British Isles might turn out to be a Key. New South Africa I think is also more productive overall its just spread out among a few cities rather than concentrated in a Durban. In summary, at this very early stage, the winning strat might amount to something like a Migration Game.
 
Hello, and firstly thank you for creating this great mod!

Secondly, feedback:

Toltecs (3000BC, Marathon, Monarch, on the version from June 1):
They provided a nice, puzzle-like playing experience. OTOH in my game the Aztecs never spawned (as is probably intended), and after conquering maya lands and beating back the european conquerors, the area became very quiet. A few thoughts:
1) the independent city to the south-east took cultural control over the southern corn, which felt somewhat odd and complicated the 10 pop UHV
2) the culture for the UHVs does not yet scale with game speed. (i.e. I had 100 turns for 200 culture, which is completed by the palace alone)
3) Atlatl had a very strong feeling, quite easily beating all barbarians, and together with catapults and few light swordsman beating the Maya and conquerors
4) the UB feels very thematic, but maybe an additional artist slot could replace the +3 exp?
5) I did take a few looks in WB and most of the civs were doing well. The exception being Spain, which wildly expanded (maybe partly scripted?) to Cuba and the Phillipines, only to collapse to their core (around 1300, presumeably due to overextension). Effectively this lost them all colonies, Cordoba, and the cities on the Meditaranean cost, leaving them crippled the entire game.

In this game I then switched to the Dutch, conquering 3 Toltec cities on Caribbean islands, thus having a presumably above average start. I will try a few real Dutch starts soon. My thoughts on this part of the game:
6) with the trading company I could run my slider at about 95% while having 20 cities. This seems a bit strong, but not too much ahistorical.
7) Portugal did not contest southern Africa at all (unlike in 1.17)
8) The effect of Brooklin Bridge (free polders in each city) feels even more OP for the Dutch than in 1.17 due to having more cities. Maybe this could be reduced to only cities placed along a river?
9) As a consequence of all these I could run away with the game, reaching Globalization ... around 1800.
10) The Zoo becomes available after obsoleting Ivory, Fur and Whale. I guess the intended effect is for preserves to generate those resources, but this does not yet work.
11) I was very impressed by the performance of a few AI, most of all the Moors and to a lesser extent Portugal. Both were amongst the most scientifically competitive Civs. OTOH especially the Moors will have benefitted a lot from a dissapointing Spain.
12) I found France to be doing very well, expanding into Italy, Spain and later Germany, being the strongest AI. Their performance against me was disappointing, with them only launching single Gribeauval against Amsterdam.
13) The trading company military expeditions are in effect significantly weaker, due to there being more cities. In this game the Mugals succeeded in beating both the French and English invasions, even with them happening almost simultaneously. Maybe the trading company effect could be increased to 4 cities?
14) England does seem very well-balanced, being slow to expand initially and getting continously stronger. They were on par with France at around 1800.

I am currently playing a game with the Malays (3000BC, Normal, Monarch, on the version from June 1) they are interesting to play, with lots of interaction with others. I am up to around 1300. A few thoughts:
15) Java seems to be quite aggressive, in one failed test game they DOW'ed the Khmer within a few Turns of spawning.
16) UHV #1 can be achieved by pure city spam, whipping a useful thing (Settlers, Granaries, Aqueducts, UBs) whenever a city reaches 4pop. I my game China is still alive and accounting for about half my trade route commerce, should they collapse I would need about 15 cities instead of 10. This may make this goal somewhat luck-dependent.
17) UHV #2 One can acquire 7 luxuries easily with cities (Ivory, Gold, Spices, Dye, Gems, Pearls, Incense) and trade for 5 (Jade, Silk, Opium, Tea, Cotton). That leaves 2, which seem complicated: Trading for Silver is basically out of question, since each Civ only controlls one. It would be possible to settle one in Australia, this is concievable. Fur would need to be settled in manchuria, which seems very ahistorical. For Wine one can only hope, that Arabia controls the two in the levant, or that France can be reached and is willing to trade it. Coffee may be traded for if Ethiopia is alive, else one would need to conquer it, again ahistorical. Amber from Poland may be possible too. In Summary Wine, Coffee and Amber are very luck-dependent, Silver can be found in Australia, and one can go insane and grab Fur. I did also rule out new world resources.
18) The UB and UP are very nice. Together with the UHV this is a really thematic civ, the theme being a big trade hub. I would not like to break this theme to go conquering for UHV #2.

So far both of these UHV seem very luck dependent, and for #3 Islam spread is needed, but I am not there yet.
 
Tried a new Japan strategy this morning. I thought to myself, "30,000 culture in general, no more 6000 average required, this sounds like Leoreth wants the player to conquer Korea like Toyotomi Hideyoshi wanted to!" So I built an army, I build a fleet, heavy opportunity cost from culture buildings and great artist production. But it's okay, Korea usually has culture-

Nope. 289 culture in Seoul after sparing the city, in 1450. So it looks like conquering Korea or even China for additional culture isn't realistic as of right now. I'll try again with the usual great artist spam another time.

I am vaguely concerned about controlling China in 1940. The new China region is massive, and there's a very real risk you could get bogged down in a forever war in there, just like the real IJA did. I could play a 1700 game to fast forward to the fun part of the UHV but that means dealing with Britain having radio in 1880.


Historically accurate, working as intended!
Doesn't the goal specifically state you have to found the cities yourself?
 
It does. But I found it much easier than 1.17. Hemeji Castle, fortifications, and the culture slider were plenty to get to 30,000 with four cities. I dropped the slider back to 0% about 20 turns before the goal because I knew I'd make it.
 
Last edited:
Doesn't the goal specifically state you have to found the cities yourself?
You're right, it does. My brain blotted out "founded" because I swear I've never seen that until now.
 
Any England tips so far?
I find the lack of Scotland super rough. There's barely any tiles so I find it hard to squeeze between production and commerce.
The plague also destroyed me. Manchester went from 7 pop to 2 pop, there goes half my entire economy.
I haven't gone for a determined UHV run but messed around for maybe a few dozen turns. Ireland seems to be the new Scotland for production at least and stands alone just fine, possibly even better. The real tough decisions will revolve entirely around Tile Distribution on GB and this can reach all the way to grand strategy: Do you put all the chips on London and castrate Manchester/York which in turn renders Edinburgh barely useful? I casually tried the classic Santa Maria del Fiore gambit and got it comfortably on Monarch with a simple Patronage beeline. After that with Tributaries the other three cities had only one job and that was to supply London with Skirms for Happiness to fuel the Specialist economy, which as before the Isles are more suited to. That at least got to me to the Reformation and part way into the Colonization phase. As for actually achieving the UHVs I kinda have no idea what position I was in, especially the Cape-Cairo railroad. I'd also admit the goal might seem more daunting than it actually is simply because I've never interacted with these areas of the map (Rift Valley) old or new and so didnt have a plan I could easily visualize, especially with timing (take a chance on an early strike on Egypt or risk having to outslog a possible GigaOtto?) I can report that Eastern North America is a stronger asset on the new map and is all Historical territory now and leveraging it early to make up for weaker British Isles might turn out to be a Key. New South Africa I think is also more productive overall its just spread out among a few cities rather than concentrated in a Durban. In summary, at this very early stage, the winning strat might amount to something like a Migration Game.
I've chosen a novel strategy which is rushing an early army (chopping+despotism) to grab Scotland and Ireland by around 1350. I think that's the earliest you can reliably get, maybe a bit earlier if you take the risks, but Edinburgh is so heavily defended I needed 5 heavy swordsmen and four trebuchets. Overkill, perhaps?
After that the British Isles have enough production to start throwing settlers at the New World, which is the same as last game.
The new issue I've found is the right economy - London specialists sounds good, but the problem I've faced is that Holy Rome sprints ahead with cottages, while my farm eco struggles behind. Cottage eco could work for good tech, but, would I make enough production?
 
I've chosen a novel strategy which is rushing an early army (chopping+despotism) to grab Scotland and Ireland by around 1350. I think that's the earliest you can reliably get, maybe a bit earlier if you take the risks, but Edinburgh is so heavily defended I needed 5 heavy swordsmen and four trebuchets. Overkill, perhaps?
After that the British Isles have enough production to start throwing settlers at the New World, which is the same as last game.
The new issue I've found is the right economy - London specialists sounds good, but the problem I've faced is that Holy Rome sprints ahead with cottages, while my farm eco struggles behind. Cottage eco could work for good tech, but, would I make enough production?
Marathon/Monarch, I take both Ireland and Scotland during 12th century without chopping+despotism. 4 swordsmen + 3-4 trebuchet is enough. If you're lucky, you can get a little help from some Norse huskarls targeting Scotland, but it's not mandatory.
 
Considering that Egypt, Palestine, and Iraq have all become historical areas of England now, is it worth controlling these areas through the Crusades during the Middle Ages for England?
 
Has anyone been able to get down to Mali as Moors in time for the first UHV goal? Between the Sahara and the Capes, I haven't been able to find a way.

I love what the new map has done to Moors, but they're probably overtuned with all the orchard resources in North Africa. They get tons of 7 and 8 food tiles for their core cities
 
Tried Prussia on Regent/Normal, 1700AD start, and also gave the US a try on 1700AD, so I have some comments on both and some general comments about the Industrial Era onwards based on the 1700AD scenario.

The new northern European map feels good and it's nice seeing a lot of space for the smaller nations to play around with. I haven't finished my Prussia game yet but its 1908 and I only have 4 cities left in Russia, and three in Sweden, and something like 30+ of each of Infantry, Artillery, Panzers, and Transports, Japan is my vassal, France, Britain, and the Netherlands are dead, and the US [1] and Russia are hopelessly behind. My only tech rival left is Spain [2]. The Prussian game itself was pretty similar to 1.17 in how I approached it:
  • Research Replaceable Parts, then upgrade the starting army to Fusiliers. Take everyone except a skeleton garrison in Frankfurt, Hamburg, and Berlin, and rush Amsterdam. There's room for two losses and then the city is razed. Unlike 1.17, this doesn't give Frankfurt and Hamburg a huge amount of new tiles, but it does give them a few more and it permanently removes one of the big Euro tech rivals from the game.
  • Run up the top half of the tech tree to get Assembly Plants + Ballistics, and then focus mainly on the bottom two rows while strategically picking at Industrial techs that Britain and France can't research to get the Industrial tech goal half of UHV3. Usually I use the first Great Scientist and Great Engineer for bulbing to help facilitate the top bit.
  • Compared to 1.17, a lot of power has been moved from Frankfurt to Berlin in the 1700AD scenario --- Berlin starts with all the German wonders and the Protestant shrine, and is the capital. Before any further conquests, Berlin builds the National University, and then prioritizes core happiness [1][3] and science infrastructure then builds units. Once Journalism is researched, Berlin builds Neutschwanstein Castle with a Great Engineer rush, and then at that point non-Great General GPs can be settled for UHV1. There is plenty of time for the goal.
  • As long as the core balances building main infrastructure (Universities, Observatories, Assembly Plants, happiness buildings [1][3], Barracks), the game is really straightforward after this opener. I settled non-Great Engineer GPs for UHV1 while using Great Engineers to rush certain wonders --- Westminster Palace, Palace of Nations (this is really important to preserve the conquests), Statue of Liberty [1], Menlo Park, Abbey Mills, etc.
  • I conquered Poland as soon as the National University is done, then Belarus/Ukraine/St. Petersburg (Russia DOWed for some bizarre reason, sent a few crummy units in while leaving paper garrisons), then Denmark-Norway, then Austria, then France, then Britain and Italy. As noted, I have quite a few turns left for the remaining Russian cities and core Sweden (I used my Congresses to get the Baltics and Balkans, and used a Great Artist bomb on Belgrade to get the Oil for Panzers). My Defensive Pact partners were the Ottomans, Spain, Japan, and the US. Portugal and eventually Japan peace-vassalized.
Now, some thoughts about some big map balance I saw during this playthrough (and which were echoed in a US attempt on 1700 AD Monarch/Normal). The numbers correspond to my number notes above:
  1. King Washington is back (I had an earlier screenshot of just the scoreboard from shortly after America's spawn, but I don't know where it went):

    Spoiler :
    1717905232043.png


    In my US game, I had horrible, horrible early-game happiness issues (see Note [3] below). My new cities regularly had happiness of just 5 (would be 6 on Regent, I think) and the very frequent immigration events actually made my cities hilariously unhappy. I stopped my playthrough because I realized I would have to dramatically change my early-game strategy to really prioritize happiness infrastructure instead of economic and military buildings, as I used to.

    However, we can see the AI's solution is its old solution --- adopt Monarchy. Until the end of my game, I never saw them switch out of being the United Principalities of America, which let me secure the Statue of Liberty pretty late in the game as Prussia. When playing the US, I did not find the new UHV enough to counter the happiness issues, because its trigger events also add a population point, so the +1 happiness just counteracts the new unhappiness caused by the new population. I'm not sure how to balance this against the huge amount of power the US has in its modifiers, its land, and its lack of real neighbouring rivals, but in my Prussia game they were consistently a row or two of techs behind me at all times, even when I was only running a 50% Science slider [3].

  2. On the flipside, Spain stayed really strong even after the Latin American decolonization spawns. In the old map, I found that after the decolonization they became really middling, but for some reason here they maintain a lot of power and were just a bit behind the big boys of Britain and France (and presumably, the Netherlands if I didn't mob them) in tech while beating them in military (see my screenshot above). I'm not sure why this is happening, honestly --- maybe they're maintaining sufficient central American colonies to keep a colonial engine going and the loss of their other colonies is actually helping them by reducing maintenance?

  3. Now the big issue I noticed in the Industrial Era --- horrid happiness issues. Even when I was still running Monarchy instead of Despotism, I was consistently needing Arenas + a cultural slider + all available happiness buildings to maintain size 10+ cities. For the 600AD starts, I assume the solution to this is Monarchy + building a colonial empire to acquire luxuries, but for late-spawning civs or those focusing on continental games this isn't really an option. I maintained a 30 to 40% culture slide my entire game as Prussia, and as America would likely do the same. For Prussia, who starts in strike position to the European majors, this isn't an enormous problem for the tech goal (Britain and France were consistently competitors with me despite my much larger economic base because of the slider hit), but I could see it being a big one for the US game in having to eat a tech slider hit from the happiness. The issue largely fixed itself, somehow, in late Industrial Era and early Modern Era. I could be playing horribly wrong though and missing some obvious solution to this problem.

All-in-all, it was a pretty fun playthrough while watching the Oilers lose.
 
Re: Happiness problems

I've run into this same issue while playing USA and Russia (the two biggest contiguous empire builders of the late game, discounting Prussia which always flounders when the AI controls it in my experience). The happiness problems are severe. With Russia you can at least whip the periphery into compliance as needed (and then become communist to chase out the corporations causing the "Our workers are being exploited!" :mad:), but with the USA, you're caught in a vicious cycle. Every time I hooked up a new luxury resource, the city's population would increase, and there'd be very little net gain of happiness. I don't know if this is commentary on the USA's rampant expansionism in the 19th century or not. Very funny that the AI copes by switching to monarchy! I think the USA's UP could use some fine-tuning...
 
Agreed on the happiness issues. Playing as Rome and sticking to my historical area throughout most of the renaissance, I had to keep the cultural slider at 20 and eventually at 40% due to the lack of happiness resources in Europe and the fact that the AI basically won't trade with the player. (You want 15 resources for 1 spices? Really?) I actually kept the 40% culture slider up the entire game but thanks to the ridiculous tech rate I didn't even mind, still was able to hit all the benchmarks like muskets before Ottoman spawn, SOL before Prussia spawn, tanks in 1800, etc. It also helped make sure my conquests got culturally stable very fast. I didn't end up getting happy without the slider until the late game happy wonders got built but by then I had turned off the tech slider and started the Domination super war so the culture slider was maxed out anyway. It was a fixture of my entire game tbh.
 
Back
Top Bottom