LBD Challenge #1: Happy Gorillas

[futurehermit]

Ok, so here's the official thread for the first LBD (let's be different) challenge.

Leader: Brennus

Traits: Spiritual and Charismatic

Techs: Hunting and Mysticism

UU: Gallic Warrior; replaces swords, starts with guerrilla (gorilla) promotion, can be built with copper or iron

UB: Dun; replaces walls, gives units guerrilla promotion (makes them gorillas)

Settings: Emperor/Continents/Normal/Standard/Default

Goals:

As per the other thread, we will be COMPELLED this game to use every means possible to increase our happiness. This doesn't mean we'll have 100 units per city under hereditary rule, but it does mean we will use hereditary rule. It will also mean we will be compelled to do different things, such as generate a GA to lightbulb music to build notre dame. Stuff like that.

In the archaic age, here are the means of happiness:

Ivory, gold, silver, fur, gems, state religion, temples, representation (pyramids), Charismatic trait (1 free, 1 from monuments)

We are charismatic and start with mysticism so monuments are key and stonehenge is debatable. Going hindu/buddha is also debatable. I think since we should be compelled towards happiness that we should go hindu/buddha despite the poor starting worker techs. We will try for all the available happiness resources and prioritize priesthood for temples and oracle. Dunno about pyramids, probably not.


Opening:



NOTE: We have marble in capital, so we should definitely nab oracle and can also debate the other early marble-based wonders!!! Parthenon anyone???

Save:

Attached


Please discuss!!!

EDIT: P.S., I'm using Image Shack. Anyone know how to make the picture larger? Thks.

 

[aelf]

With your focus on happiness, your cities are going to grow large. Use marble to grab the ToA in your coastal capital, of course! What were you thinking?

 

[NaZdReG]

wow what a crazy opening spot.. get those fish and crab resources up and whip like crazy!!! settlers.. temples.. wow dude I wish I had that much food sometimes!! good luck i'll be following the thread

thanks for posting your game

NaZ

 

[futurehermit]

With your focus on happiness, your cities are going to grow large. Use marble to grab the ToA in your coastal capital, of course! What were you thinking?

I was thinking: "This is supposed to be let's be different and Aelf already did a ToA game"

and, seriously, who builds parthenon?

anyways, i'm open for discussion and ToA is definitely an option.

 

[futurehermit]

Ok, well, I need some discussion before starting

My inclination is to go for polytheism first. Gives us a shot at hinduism and unlocks both early marble wonders. We'll need masonry to obtain marble and mining-bronze to chop, but when to get these?

I'd like to put in a vote for parthenon for two reasons.

1) Most people seem to never build it.

2) It will generate a GA which we can use on lightbulbing music for notre dame.

 

[carl corey]

Don't despair. People have plans for Saturday nights. I do. I'll try to take a look at this later.

 

[Janus0]

Question that immediately comes to mind: If we're doing it for the are we ruling out slavery? High food and no slavery would make me a sad panda, but then again.. challenges aren't supposed to be easy.

Either way, if we go for religons early and have some food, the capital would make a good candidate for a gold farm. On the other hand.. fish + plains hills may make this city a great early production city.. it would depend on what the other tiles reveal.

If you can help it, I wouldn't settle ON a resource, but I don't like the look of those tundra-style forests.. move the scout NW+NW or NW+N and see what you get.

Edit: And in the spirit of the challenge, the first build should unquestionably be a monument.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Coastal start, marble, a ton of food, and a happiness-crazy variant? Sounds like perfect ToA territory to me too.

But... I'd wait to find out what/who else is around before committing to any such choices. If it turns out you're alone, or you only have untrustworthy nutcases for neighbours, then a trade-based wonder may not be the best approach...

Since you want , and start with mysticism, a shot at Hinduism has got to be worth a go. The nightmare scenario would be finding yourself stuck on a continent with no religions (as I did recently), so grabbing one for yourself is definitely the way to go. It's a pity you're not Spanish, as this start would be perfect for a hydra.

Since the forests and seafood can provide hammers, food and commerce without worker-improvements, I'd delay your first worker a while to keep the city growing.

Tech-path? Polytheism-Fishing looks straightforward enough, but would it be worth going for Masonry-Monotheism next to have a go at Judaism? As you said, you need the former to get the marble hooked up; so why not have a shot at another religion? The danger, I suppose, is that you could not only miss out on the religions, but also on the marble wonders thanks to a lack of whip and chop.

Alternatively, you could go fishing first, and try to get Judaism as your religion instead of Hinduism. This would have the advantage of getting your city growing earlier, and increasing your tech-rate sooner. Perhaps Fishing-Mining-BW-Poly-Masonry-Mon? Or is that a little too ambitious for Emperor?

 

[futurehermit]

Ok, good discussion so far. I would want to limit slavery, yes, and instead prefer to always grow to max size. We can still use slavery at the limits of our happiness. With so much happiness we want to put it to good use That's not to say that is the only way we can use the happiness though. What about whipping more often accumulating 2+ from whipping? Normally that's avoided, but if we have a lot of extra then maybe that's an option?

I don't like settling on resources either. However, in this case I'd strongly consider it. When going for early wonders putting down a quarry (8turns) and road (2+ turns) just takes a long time. In this case it's 0 turns, no quarry, no roads. I wouldn't mind trying to make a run at multiple early marble-based wonders We'll see, we'll see

I wouldn't mind making a run at judaism, but we really are gonna need some worker techs at some point as well...It's hard to say, we do want to be different after all

I think going polytheism first would give us the most options. It might found us a religion and it gives us access to two wonders and is a prereq to priesthood for orace --> all good imo.

What about delaying bronze and anhusb for a bit and doing archery instead? if we go for monotheism early then it would make sense to go archery for defense...

I definitely want us to be compelled towards but that doesn't mean necessarily that we have to do things like build monument first in our capital. We can still build as we need it to a certain extent I think. Basically, I want us to still play as solid as possible but prioritizing much different things than most people do.

I'd really like to see us build the sistine chapel this game as well. Another lesser-built wonder.

How many people build parthenon + sistine chapel + notre dame in most of their games? It's not to say it doesn't happen, but it wouldn't be the majority I would reckon

Choices, choices.

Basically, I think the things we need to decide before I play the first round is:

1) Which early wonders to we want to prioritize?

2) Do we want to make a run at both hinduism and judaism?

3) What do we want to rely on for military? Warriors? Archers? Look for copper or horses?

Other comments are of course welcome

 

[Winston Hughes]

we really are gonna need some worker techs at some point as well...

Chopping and mines! Who needs anything else when you've got that much seafood?!

 

[futurehermit]

^^yeah, those are the two main ones i was thinking about possibly the wheel

 

[Winston Hughes]

1) Which early wonders to we want to prioritize?

2) Do we want to make a run at both hinduism and judaism?

1) ToA or Parthenon. Which one depends on what you can find out about the neighbourhood before you have to make the choice.

If you choose ToA, then the Great Lighthouse as well would be awesome, and probably fairly easy to get, since a lighthouse will be needed soon enough anyway (being worth a minimum of 3 food per turn). But, as you say, aelf has already covered that ground.

The Oracle is the other obvious choice. I haven't tried it on Warlords yet, but I assume you could still do a CoL slingshot to get Confucianism. More religions has got to be a good thing in a game. Plus those high-road techs do include lots of happiness-boosting stuff (including Notre Dame). You talked about taking the low-road to Optics on the other thread, but in this case your need for could be better served by a different route.

2) Depends whether you think you can pull it off at the same time as going for whichever wonder(s) you choose to go for. If you can do it without neglecting some other crucial tasks, then why not?

The real advantage of your starting position, imo, is that you've got everything you need sitting right there without having to stall city growth for an early worker. You only need one tech (Fishing) and one build (Workboat) and you've got enough & available for a strong start.

Settling on the marble is great. Not only does it save you building a worker to get it, but you'll get an extra hammer from the city tile. All that sea-food will allow you to keep growing even while working a hill forest or two.

Consequently, the first thing you're likely to need a worker for is chopping a couple of forests to grab your chosen wonder, by which point you'll be able to knock that worker out much quicker. If there's a choice city spot nearby then you might even consider building a settler before your first worker.

 

[futurehermit]

Yeah, the question is what are our plans for getting that first settler out? We clearly need one to give us some more production while we're building wonders...

 

[aelf]

Don't worry about emulating what happened in EMC3. That was before 2.08 and I relied on the Great Wall's 2 GPP to get a GE to hurry the ToA. Things are going to be different in your game. And, most likely you can only choose one early wonder. IMO, with marble and a coastal capital, the ToA wins over the Great Lighthouse and the Parthenon. Later on, you could possibly build the Great Library as well.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Later on, you could possibly build the Great Library as well.

Maybe it's just my imagination, but doesn't everyone seem to build that these days?

 

[futurehermit]

The thing about the parthenon is that it would give us the GA we need for music...

 

[aelf]

The thing about the parthenon is that it would give us the GA we need for music...

I know. But is that the best strategy? You map is screaming for a trade route game, which is actually in line with your growth strategy anyway. The Great Library, if you do get to build it, is just a bonus.

 

[futurehermit]

This game isn't about the best strategy necessarily though It's about being different

EDIT: 1st priority in our game will be to do everything possible to increase happiness. Beyond that, everything is open to discussion. One wonder we have to get is notre dame and that means getting music first, which means first generating a GA. Seeing as how we have marble I think Parthenon makes sense here. Hopefully build parthenon in 2nd city and Oracle in capital. Nab CoL and adopt caste system. Work an artist or two in parthenon city...GA!

Thoughts?

 

[futurehermit]

Ok everyone, I'm going to start on this game either later today or tomorrow, so if you have any (further) advice, please share it asap

Here is my thinking so far, please critique:

Research: Polyth-Fishing-Mining-Wheel-Bronze-Masonry-Priest-Writing

I feel if we make a run at judaism that we will lose out on the wonders due to no chopping. We also need wheel and masonry to get marble to our 2nd city.

(Don't need masonry until ready to chop; order of mining-wheel probably doesn't matter much since worker won't be out anyways, but we need them first; order of bronze/masonry probably doesn't matter first cuz we won't chop til masonry anyways. Hmm...do we need masonry to get the +1 hammer from the capital? If so, could put masonry in earlier)

Build:

-Capital: Warrior-Warrior-Workboat-Settler-Worker

-New city: Monument-Worker-Warrior-Warrior-Parthenon (hopefully can get these two barb-busters out in time to still chop parthenon!)

Goals: Establish defences and 2nd city; hook up cities to get marble in 2nd city; Parthenon in 2nd city, Oracle in first (CoL)

Oracle-CoL IS pretty standard, but imo we're doing it for the GA which isn't as standard so it's cool

Please let me know what you think as I am open to changing things based on what everyone else thinks

 

[idiot_savant]

Good thread so far... I do think there's something to be said for Monotheism in that it provides Judaism AND Organized Religion which can be extremely helpful due to the immediate switch from Spiritual. I still like the religious monopoly idea for a non-warring game... OR also provides cheap Missionaries for easy religion spread....

I do think that the Priest vs. Artist debate is a little of a misnomer (sorry can't think of the right word)... you can generate one of each pretty easily in time to get Music and a shrine is important for the happiness it can provide. The issue with ToA is the GM vs. GP. I normally get a GP, but you can just as easily get a GM. ToA + Oracle is pretty much a lock for a Priest.

I am also wondering whether CoL is such a big deal... Theaters provide 2 Artists and is on the path to Music. With Parthenon and some artists, GAs will be flowing pretty easy.