LBD Challenge #1: Happy Gorillas

[aelf]

Hey, an early GM rocks too.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Ok everyone, I'm going to start on this game either later today or tomorrow, so if you have any (further) advice, please share it asap

Sounds to me like you've got your plan. Barring any inspired ideas cropping up, I'd say go for it.

One minor thing: don't forget to use the workboat on the fishes rather than the crabs.

 

[futurehermit]

What about going MC and forges (for ) instead of CoL?

What do other people think about going straight for monoth? Will we be able to get our wonders, incl oracle if we do this?

 

[Winston Hughes]

What about going MC and forges (for ) instead of CoL?

Well, you could wait to see if there's gold, gems or silver about, before making the choice. If you don't have any nearby, then MC wouldn't be so attractive. Otherwise, and since you're bending your strategy to go for maximum happiness, then it's a question of whether you'll get more from forges than from Confucianism. It might also be worth bearing in mind that you'll get the forges at some point anyway, whereas you might never get Confucianism in any of your cities.

 

[futurehermit]

Yeah, that's a good point. We do want to try and monopolize religions.

Well, what do people think about our odds of getting our wonders if we go for judaism outright? Can we fit in fishing if we go for judaism?

Poly-fish-masonry-monoth-wheel-mining-priest/bronze-writing?

Can we make it? What about barbs?

 

[Winston Hughes]

Poly-fish-masonry-monoth-wheel-mining-priest/bronze-writing?

Can we make it?

It's certainly ambitious... I guess that it could be done with some carefully timed micromanagement and a fistful of luck. The second city will be crucial; if there's no good spots nearby, or if you need to research other techs (agriculture/AH) to make the city viable, it's going to be very tough to win all of those races in quick succession.

You really need more information before you can make the choice, imo. Poly-Fish is a given, and the first builds are straightforward (don't forget to switch to Workboat and work those as soon as you get fishing). So why not play a few turns and see what you find?

 

[futurehermit]

Alright! I will do it.

I'll play poly-fish and then will post an update.

 

[futurehermit]

Ok, Here is round one. Played to poly-fish. Started off building nothing but warriors since our building priorities will be tied up once we get some techs online...And not to mention that we don't know when we'll actually get a military tech/resource...

Early on we got some good luck from a goody hut:

This is pretty huge imo although I don't see horses nearby, which is too bad.

This could make being peaceful difficult early...

Not too bad...

First objective nailed down!

And fishing...

Candidates for 2nd city site. Not great surrounding land. We have gold and fur so we must be compelled toward them somehow! But, how?!

1st candidate: On plains hill, gets furs, deer, and corn, but limited chops.

2nd candidate: Not on plains hill, but more chops and gets gold on 2nd border expansion.

3rd candidate: On another plains hill. Gets furs and gold on 2nd border pop:

Known world, with Ragnar nearby:

Ok, so what now?!?! Nothing like desert + peaks + tundra + ice to give you lots of options, eh?

 

[Janus0]

I like spot #2, with a prospective location for your 3rd city between the pigs & rice w/ incense access.

 

[Winston Hughes]

After getting a tasty starting site, the surrounding area has turned out to be horrible. You've got barren, featureless terrain to the north and south, and very little useful space between you and Ragnar. If he should get a settler out there first, then you could be left with no strong site for your second city and a barrier to further expansion.

In that case, you'd surely have to invade asap.

On the other hand, if you can nail a good central spot (maybe 1SW of #3, if it's not too far), you'll open up a path to the south and create a little space in which another city or two could eventually be settled.

If Ragnar is on the coast, then it looks like a straight fight for control of the north, so I'd definitely prepare for war sooner rather than later. With no horses, you'd better hope there's some metal nearby or things could get nasty. If you do find some, then I'd start getting ready to go after the Vikings as soon as you've got your cities in good shape.

For the Oracle tech (assuming you get it), I'd say go MC unless you miss out on Judaism. Since you've got gold, the forges will satisfy your needs, whilst helping you get those troops and buildings ready more quickly.

 

[aelf]

I suggest you found a corn/gold city. Working a gold mine is just too big an advantage to be missing out on early in the game.

 

[futurehermit]

Ok guys, before I play the next round here's what I need:

1) Agreement on 2nd city site location

2) Agreement on tech path. Do we include monoth in an attempt at judaism?

3) Agreement on wonder decision. Basically it boils down to ToA vs. Parthenon since we're gonna go oracle I'm sure.

We may want to generate a prophet first for theology instead of a GA first. We should be able to get music with 2nd gp: a GA generated from CoL/caste system. Reasoning is to get sistine chapel which has nice syngery with parthenon and cultural victory. It doesn't do much for happiness, but we do have marble so it'll be cheap. Notre Dame is a stone-based wonder, so we'll have to keep our eye out for stone and if not, forests...

 

[cabert]

I come in a bit late, but here are my general rules for happiness:
- land is power (really! you want to cover as many happiness bonuses as possible as early as possible!)
- mathematics -> currency and construction. Why construction? because you want a colosseum soon... and because it gives elephants with ivory. You didn't spot any elephants out there? too bad! explore some more towards jungle, they usually hide there (behind the leaves) . It's giving a good synergy to your research path.
- if you go for oracle, you take monarchy as free tech. Why? because of HR for one thing, because of wine for another happiness boost and because it's on the way to feudalism. Did you know that vassals give happiness? Of course you did, but you plan on a peaceful game. I don't agree. Happiness is better found on the bodies of your enemies

Edit : if going for cultural, you really want those religions early. If they are in your cities, you have an easier day! Most of what I wrote above is irrelevant.

 

[futurehermit]

Ha! This game may need to be aggressive because of the landscape as well. Cultural victory is less often done, but Ragnar may dictate otherwise anyways

 

[cabert]

I like a good cultural win after an early rampage.
It's easier to have 7 religions when you have 30 cities

 

[futurehermit]

lolz, true enough!

 

[idiot_savant]

Hey, an early GM rocks too.

That s/he does...

 

[idiot_savant]

I think the gold/corn city would be the best next site... unfortunately there aren't tons of good options. I would then focus on building cities south along the west side of the desert.

I still think Monoth is a good option, but obviously it will set you further down one path. I don't see any stone or marble which is a knock against it as Masonry proves useless then given wonder choices.

I like Oracle + ToA for wonders. Oracle probably should lead to CoL given your start and the distance from your capital caused by desert.

I would eliminate Ragnar and then try to stop warring after that assuming you have the 9 cities for cultural win.

My 2.

 

[cabert]

OK, i didn't read the discussion thread before making my stupid assesments here.

If you have a shot at judaism, go for it!
I did it (with gandhi, it's much easier ) and managed a nice cultural victory with absolutely no fight (exception : barbarians, and even very few of them thanks to the great wall!). The only difficulty was to get enough cities. I didn't manage 9, only got 8, but that was enough thanks to philo (earlier artists!).

You want happiness, and that's cool. But for what?
When you'll start going for culture (no SE this time please!) you'll have something over 20 happiness in every theatre city. Should be enough IMHO.

Health will be a bigger problem!

 

[futurehermit]

Ok, I'm thinking to shoot for judaism and attempt a GP as first gp for theology lightbulb for sistine chapel. Sound ok? This would give us 2 more religions hopefully and another one from oracle--col. GA second for music lb and notre dame (gets priority if can't build both). GA from music on divine right for yet another religion. If possible 3rd gp a GS for philosophy lightbulb. We may lose that one... Perhaps we can self-research music and get GS with 2nd gp for philo. But do we risk an ai lightbulbing music?

As for what to do with all the happiness...

This is the crux of what we're trying to do here, so that's where I'd like the main discussion to be.

We have tons of how do we leverage it? Maybe cultural victory isn't the best idea?

Maybe we should plan on being aggressive instead. With very high we can manage high WW and earlier on if we run FE (bad landscape for it so far) we can do extra whipping and absorb the caused from whipping.

What else could we do with really high ???