Leader Ability Elimination Thread

1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [17]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [21]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [7]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [11]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [29-3=26] Strong, but not the strongest. But also I wanted to undo the votes of the person who voted 12 times in a row against a single leader, as they repeatedly force others to upvote the target.
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29+1=30] Down 36 points by a single person. That's just insane.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [17]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [21+1=22] War generates a decent amount of culture.
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [7-3=4] Not so good if you start inland.
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [11]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [17-3=14] This is obviously a good ability, but the competition is getting tough. I also don't like how this can be abused by declaring war on some far away civ just to give your scouts +2 movement with no actual intent of going to war.
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [22]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [4] I think it's too late to save this one, but I really like this bonus! 1/2 Price on 3 districts is great.
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [11]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31+1=32] Combat bonuses are king and this is the best one out there.
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

Some votes missed there. Monty should be at 26 and Qin at 30

 

Edited my last post to reflect correct votes.

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [25 + 1 = 26] - It's not just about going to war. It's about never making peace, even if you're not actively fighting, to give everyone a permanent war weariness penalty.
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [14]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [22]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [4 - 3 = 1] - It's a great ability, but the pure military and production power of some of the remaining civs just outclass it.
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [11]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [26]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [14]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [22-3=19] I think at this point one of the two culture-based abilities should drop and this seems the weaker of the two.
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [1]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [11+1=12] I'm going to die on this ship. Bringing back the bullet points to justify why:

• When was the last time you didn't see the AI attack a CS?
• Against the AI, even on deity, it's not too hard to liberate a single city.
• Liberation beats razing the city as post R&F many captured cities have too much loyalty lost per turn to be useful.
• +100% production for up to 20 turns is essentially 20 turns of production free.
• Production bonus can be chained for near infinite double production.
• People were raving over Amanitore's +40% production: this is less situational and 2.5x stronger.
• The declaration of war bit makes declaring war on you extremely risky, securing your Civ.
• Amazing in multiplayer.

19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [26]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15-3=12] Again spies just aren't that useful compared to other bonuses.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [14]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [19]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [1]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [12+1=13] ^Agreed! The production bonus is massive and in every game I've played with Aus, I've got it many times.
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [26]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [12+1 = 13] -

• Somebody here said that this is a bad ability because spies are not necessary, you can completely ignore them and still win the game. True. But this is true for MOST features in the game and that's the beauty of the game! Trade routes, governors, great works, religion, diplomacy, envoys - you can fully ignore any of those and many other....
• Even when you don't want to use spies, this ability gives +3 combat bonus against every single AI right from the start, including the religious combat. Unlike other leader abilities here that gave +5 CS for 10 turns after something. Yes, I know, it doesn't have to be +3 if the AI also increases its visility somehow, but you get this for free, you don't have to do anything, so it will be +3 in most cases.
• And spies have so many uses. You get bonuses for yourself. Of you cripple and enemy. Or even better - you don't both at the same time.

6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [14-3 = 11] - In my personal list this leader would have been eliminated already for days. What's the deal? After declaration of war you receive +2 movement for all units for 10 turns. That's the only important aspect of this bonus, from my view. +5 loyalty in occupied cities? I've never really had problems with loyalty in captured cities. Declaring surprise war counts as formal? Eh, I could as well just denounce him 5 turns earlier... Anyway, this ability seems to be purely militaristic and if you're making war you probably will be denounced by all the AI anyway, so you don't need surprise war so much.
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [19]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [1]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [13]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [26-3=23] I suppose they don't receive any war weariness if you don't actively fight them?
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [11]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [19]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [1]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [13]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30+1=31] With proper play, it's quite possible to have 8-10 cities about turn 100 AND a wonder. It's not mutually exclusive, especially with Qin. (well, without Qin too, but it doesn't make him worse)
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [23]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13 - 3 = 10] - If spies are making a difference in the outcome of the game, you should probably read up in the strategy forum to relearn the basic mechanics of the game. Seriously, there is no espionage VC so this ability only buffs a mini side game which works as a distraction from the core game.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [11]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [19]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [1 + 1 = 2] - Probably too little, too late, but I find that building districts can be one of the most time consuming things in the game. Once I have expanded a bit, it sometimes takes longer to build a new district than it does a wonder! Getting the build time reduced by 1/2 is HUGE! This also stacks well with the Japanese +1 adjacency bonus for all districts making a tightly packed urban area produce a great return on investment.
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [13]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [31]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [23]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [10+1=11] not super strong, but fun to make the most out of it. Encourages to use spies more than you usually do = good ability.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [11]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [19]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [2]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [13-3=10] easy to exploit (which makes it OP) and feels gamey if you try to make the most out of it = bad ability.
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [31]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [23]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [11]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [11]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [19-3=16] - Never found it that strong, probably because I do any warring I have to early on if I can when the other civs are small then settle the land mass so barbs don't spawn.
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [2]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [10]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26+1=27] - Amenities going further is always useful and the combat bonus whilst not massive usually helps keep the excellent Eagle Warrior viable for longer.
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [31]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [23]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [11]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [11+1=12] Two more movement points for all types of units throughout the whole game? Count me in.
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [16]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [2-3=-1] Good ability, but the remaining ones outclass it. ELIMINATED
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [10]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [31]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [23]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [11]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [12]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [16]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [10-3=7] Way too situational to be consistently useful.
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [31+1=32] Despite the naysayers, this is a consistently useful ability. Everybody needs builders after all. How anybody could not appreciate the extra build is beyond me. Even if you are worried about defense, building up your civilization is still critical.
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [23]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [11+1=12] While not a path to victory per se, spies are an excellent additive to any fuel. You can win any victory type faster and easier with them. They are the best tool to make sure sure you keep suzerain bonuses for all city states in the game.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [12]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [16-3=13] Good for most victories, but requires fighting.
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [7]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [32]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [23]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [12]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [12]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [10] (13-3) --- A tough choice, but I have to downvote someone and Gorgo's it. Probably slightly weaker than Trajan if Rome gets a half decent space to expand and plays the right cards.
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [8] (7+1) --- People build the Royal Society for the space race. With Australia I prefer the war department. Well actually, I prefer the war department anyway but especially so with Australia. There are usually a few stunted civs with low science and multiple conquered city states. Just send a few modern armor armies over to liberate a captured CS every 20 turns or so for +100% production. Not only do you get the +100% production, but probably 6 (or 9) envoys there as well! And you don’t have to idle your modern armor columns for 20 turns if you build the Warlord’s Throne as well. You can take the errant city every 5 turns for another +20% production bonus. And then there’s always the early game wars the AI may declare against you granting +100% production for 10 turns @ the exact time you really need it.
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [32]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [23]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [12]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [12-3=9] - The first triggered by CB bonus, starting the wave of bland and uninteresting bonuses that were already eliminated.
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [10]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [8]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [32]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31+1=32] - This one is amazing. Saves production/money and gives you a culture boost over other Civs since the first turn. A bonus useful in every game, and also a bonus that goes amazingly well with the Roman other ability.

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [23]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [12]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [9]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [10]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [8]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [32]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21-3=18] strong but boring
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [32+1=33] very powerful

 

1. Alexander - To The World's End [23]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [12+1=13] Going to bolster this again. It's one of the more engaging LUAs and is deceptively powerful in supporting any VC.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [9]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [10]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [8]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [32-3=29] This is decent, but I think it's getting more credit than it deserves. After the early game wonders dry up, you're just getting slightly more efficient workers.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [18]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [32]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [33]