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Leader Ability Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Kmart_Elvis, Oct 27, 2018.

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  1. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    Alexander - To The World's End [4]
    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [28+1=29] see reasons stated elsewhere
    Shaka - Amabutho [2-3= GONE] strong but but not top five
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [35]
     
  2. Wit

    Wit Chieftain

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    Alexander - To The World's End [4-3=1] Does not belong on this shortlist for the many reasons already stated.
    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24+1=25] Keeping your people happy is very important, and your luxuries increasing the CS of all your units is just great. And the synergy with the UU and the Civ is just great: luxuries make Eagle Warrior more powerful, capture more free workers, rush districts -- just beautiful.
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [35]
     
  3. Leathaface

    Leathaface Emperor

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    Alexander - To The World's End [1]
    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29-3=26] This leader ability is SERIOUSLY overrated. With every single Civ it is VERY easy to get +3 builders charges, which is a 100% increase. Yet a +1 builder charge, a 33% increase, is treated as some God tier ability on here. +1 builder charge would be good if you couldn't add builder charges at all in the game, but when EVERY CIV can easily add +3 builder charges it isn't special at all. Plus production towards wonders only lasts a couple of eras.
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [35+1=36] Early culture gets you to Political Philosophy quicker, some other very good civics plus your borders expand quicker.

    I'd like to see people respond to my criticism of China's leader abilities, but i've a feeling all i'll get is "see other votes." The opening post of this thread states "Give a reason for your votes." "See other votes" doesn't sound like a reason.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  4. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    Alexander - To The World's End [1-3=ELIMINATED] After much thought, very much a one-trick pony
    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [36+1=37] Has many tricks, even winning on Deity in one-turn long games beginning in the Ancient Era; no other civ can beat Trajan on Turn 1 alone
     
    Siptah likes this.
  5. ferretbacon

    ferretbacon Obsessor

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26-3=23] Easily the worst of what's left here. Should already be gone, honestly.
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [37+1=38] Should probably come out on top.
     
    Leathaface likes this.
  6. Legacy of Smiles

    Legacy of Smiles Prince

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [25+1=26] Granting an attack bonus of 20+ later on definitely isn't insignificant.
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [23-3=20] Very minor boosts - nowhere near top three.

    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [38]
     
  7. Mr Jon of Cheam

    Mr Jon of Cheam Prince

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [26+1=27] This one is my personal favourite: powerful, a really well themed fit for the Aztecs, and genuinely encourages you to play slightly differently.
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [20]
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31-3=28] Powerful but less versatile than the other two. A domination focused ability should probably win given how powerful the strategy is but they're not.my favourites.
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [38]
     
  8. TomKQT

    TomKQT Prince

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [20 + 1 = 21] - Not so great anymore, I personally would probably prefer Catherine to be here instead. But as I said, I rate Qin and Trajan the same, so I'll try to even the scores at least a bit. I understand all the criticism that +1 charge is not such a huge deal with the +1 governor and +2 policy card. But even from the start of the game, way before the card, you get +1. And you can invest the governor point into another governor, because Liang with just the basic promotion gives only the +1 charge. And even later the the game, I always hate it when I need to buy a worker in some city to clear some space for a wonder/district or improve a just releaved resource or repear some damage or whatever and I have the bad feeling that I really should wait for 5 turns before I move Liang there ;) And anyway, the bonuses stack. The micromanagement related to builders is lower with every charge they have.
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [28 - 3 = 25] - The last purely militaristic ability. I'm not so much of a warmonger and even when I do huge wars, it's quite easy in Civ6 because of the bad AI, so this bonus is not needed SO much. Anyway, it's quite good that Tomyris is the one who stayed here as the last one of those war-related, because +5 against wounded units happens almost all the time (unlike only for cavalry, only after declaration of war, only for corps etc.) and 30 health when killing a unit is also very helpful (IMHO more than the ability where all units are completely healed when you capture a city with a wonder).
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [38]
     
  9. Mesix

    Mesix The Allfather

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]

    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [21 + 1 = 22] - This ability starts from the very first turn and gives tremendous benefit when it matters the most...in the first two eras of the game. By the time Feudalism rolls around to provide a policy card benefit, the early workers have already put China well ahead of the pack. Throw in the early wonders bonus (which stacks with the policy card and religion benefits if you are using them) paired with Magnus chops and this is a ridiculously game changing leader ability. The overflow from a early Chinese wonder chop can build a district in some cases! The game is won or lost by the end of the Classical Era, and with Qin you can almost guarantee a mark in the W column regardless of which victory you are going for.

    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [25]

    Trajan - Trajan's Column [38 - 3 = 35] - This is good, but not the best of the four remaining.
     
  10. Zdarg

    Zdarg Prince

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [22 + 1 = 23] If thinking about this as "just saves you some thousands $" - you should admit that Trajan saves less
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [25]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [35 - 3 = 32] See above
     
  11. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27-3=24] +20 CS? Come on, when you get to that, you've won already for a long, long time.
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [22]
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [25+1=26] it's not purely for domination - it makes Scythia the best civ for fighting against other religious units. Scythian debaters are only killable if you camp inside a HS with a debater yourself.
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [35]
     
  12. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24 - 3 = 21] It's a good ability, which works well with everything else. You are encouraged to expand and gain control over as many luxuries as possible. As you do, you get stronger, and the added amenities help you keep your large empire happy. That said, neither part of the bonus is that powerful. Luxuries are geographically bound, so by the time the combat bonus becomes really significant, you will probably already have a large empire, and be on your way to victory anyway. The bonus will help you win faster when you are already winning.
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [23 + 1 = 24] I'm somewhat torn between Qin and Trajan for my favorite, but Qin has received too many downvotes for having "just 1 extra builder charge, when you can get +3 from other sources". Thing is, you get this +1 right from the start, when it matters the most, and you don't have to spend policy slots or governor promotions to get it. Civilization has always been a game of snowballing, and that early boost to your builders is a significant early advantage. I also just really like this ability thematically, as it makes China a great builder of early wonders.

    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [26]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [32]

    EDIT: Added in Zdarg's missing votes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  13. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [ 21]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [24+1=25] - Not convinced by the argument that small cities means you need to improve and chop less since you tend to have more small cities and their low production makes you more reliant on chopping. The current meta in Civ is to chop everything you can.
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [26]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [32-3=29] - Its good but I don't think its the best LUA

    edit: added Zdarg's vote that got missed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  14. Zdarg

    Zdarg Prince

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    I see my last post was missed
    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [21]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [26]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [29]
     
  15. Weraptor

    Weraptor King

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [21]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [26+1=27] Yeah, it's good, even for RV, which I also like.
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [29-3=26] Good ability, but something needs to go.
     
  16. Jkchart

    Jkchart Emperor

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [18 = 21-3] - I'm torn to tear this one down, but it's just my least favorite of these 4. It's great though, but alas, only one can win...
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26 = 25+1] - Such a good builder ability. It fits perfectly how I play.
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [26]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [29]
     
  17. Zdarg

    Zdarg Prince

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    Er.
    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [18]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [27]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [26]
     
  18. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [18]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [28] --- The other 3 all have strong merits well beyond a free monument, and I'm not sure which to upvote so I'll drop my vote here.
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [23] --- I first encountered the Cultus Romanus with the Unique Unit elimination thread back in April. It would appear it comes in a myriad of strains from ranging from legion lunacy to monument madness :lol:. While I think the free monument beats a slightly augmented sword without any strategic resource requirements, I believe there were others of more value relative to non-native early/mid game expansion strategies, ie. if you capture a city from the AI it doesn't come with a free monument.

    Note: I have included Zdarg's votes in my tally but am not sure if they'll stand as they have no explaination. Shrug.
     
  19. Mesix

    Mesix The Allfather

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    Correction:

    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [18]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [28]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [23]

    Note: Weraptor had already reduced to 26 above, so another reduction should put Trajan at 23.
     
  20. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    @Siptah , @AmazonQueen , and @Jkchart all don't include @Zdarg 's votes from about 7 hours ago.

    Also, if @BarbarianHunter intended to downvote Trajan, the list should look like this:
    Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [18]
    Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
    Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [28]
    Trajan - Trajan's Column [23]

    (Edit: good, @Mesix and I agree)
     
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