Leader Ability Elimination Thread

[kryat]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [18]
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [28-3=25] OP for sure, but limited in usefulness if you’re more into builder play than bugging your neighbors through war or proselytizing.
Trajan - Trajan's Column [23+1=24] Great for any victory type.

 

[Kimiimaro]

I'd like to see people respond to my criticism of China's leader abilities, but i've a feeling all i'll get is "see other votes." The opening post of this thread states "Give a reason for your votes." "See other votes" doesn't sound like a reason.

What? I'm sorry, I can't speak for others, but I change my votes and reasons every time I make a new post here, and I adressed you directly twice in the past, without much respond from you.

26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor. [23+1=24] - @Leathaface, the Liang promotion gives this bonus charge only to one city. Qin gives this charge to your entire Empire. The wider the Empire gets, the more noticable the difference is. It's quite a differnce between having to send Liang/better builders between lots of cities or having all of these cities produce better builders. And there are some quite desirable wonders you are basically guaranteed to get with Qin, like Pyramids, Colosseum or Petra.

26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor. [22] - @Leathaface with R&F, builders can significantly speed up your space projects. These are quite big thing.

You used this very same reason with the exact same wording several times, without arguing against new reasons (liky my claim of speeding up space projects (see above) to counter your claim of builders not being a big thing in R&F) for several posts.

A single governor promotion give +1 builders charges, extra builder charges aren't a huge thing in R&F. I also don't build builders in multiple cities much simultaneously. I'd rather stick Liang in my highest production city, enact Feudalism then build builders galore. After a while I build enough builders and don't need more so I get rid of Feudalism and take Liang out of the city. Plus I like to settle early cities instead of taking risks with early wonders. (I play on Immortal)

Anyways...
Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [18-3=15] - The bonus is tied to location, and you have to slowly improve the resources in order to gain more power of your units. It is also the only thing not available from the very first turn (you can found cities with monuments, start building builders or fighting and wounding others from the turn 1), because you first have to research the ways of improving single luxuries in order to gain it.
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [25]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [24+1=25] - Gotta love this thing. Saved money/production, available from turn 1, gives you a cultural boost in early game, where you need it, and if I'm not mistaken, more culture means faster border expansion of cities.

 

[TahamiTsunami]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [15 - 3 = 12] This is a fantastic ability but I do agree with @Kimiimaro 's reasoning that what makes this one just a bit more inconvenient than the others here is that you do need the tech to make improvements first while the others can get started much sooner.
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [25]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [25 + 1 = 26] Undoubtedly useful no matter how you play!

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [12 - 3 = 9] You can potentially get amazing combat strength with this, however it takes a long time to get there. It's like the CS equivalent of Pericles in a way. Tommy at least has 5 from turn one, plus the heal on kills. Aztecs had that ability in V, which I love, but it's not here for them in VI.
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [25]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [25 + 1 = 26] You can get Code of Laws in half of the time as any other civ, which means you can get +1 production in your capital sooner. Helps you get to political philosophy and Agoge faster, so you can start your legion rush. Rapidly expand with Rome and this pays off. I like not having to worry about monuments in my first several cities and immediately build other things like campuses. This is an ability that sounds ok on paper, but is phenomenal in practice.

Edit: Trajan is now correctly at 26.

 

[Toaae]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [9]
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [25+1 = 26] Yes, this is only good for one thing, and that's domination. But it is so good for it, and synergizes so well with the rest of the civ that I just can't imagine not calling it the best, in my opinion.
Trajan - Trajan's Column [26-3 = 23] At this stage, I just don't find this great ability as good as the remaining ones.

 

[Wit]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [9+1=10] A great empire requires happy citizens which this provides. Add to it one of the best UU and Civ bonuses, and your empire is sure to withstand attacks and flourish.
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [26-3=23] While it is a great bonus, it is limited to combat only, there is so much more to empire building and all the others help your empire in many ways -- this is the weakest one remaining.
Trajan - Trajan's Column [23]

 

[WillowBrook]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [10-3=7] very good bonus, but I think it goes next
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [23]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [23+1=24] free culture plus free roads are really powerful

 

[sadsquid]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [7]
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26-3=23] Good, but not best ability good. Overrated here IMO. 1 extra charge on builders is nice, but not as game changing as the remaining abilities.
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [23]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [24+1=25] Really flexible, really big boost no matter what victory you're going for as it saves production in new cities, quickly expands your borders and races you through the civics tree.

 

[Mesix]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [7]
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [23 + 1 = 24] - Easily the best leader ability when taken by itself. Starts from the first worker and continues for the full game, giving the biggest benefit to building when you need it the most, in the first two eras. Throw in the bonus to wonders in the same two eras and Qin is a recipe for building an unsurpassed early lead.
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [23 - 3 = 20] - A good combat ability. Just not as good as the remaining three abilities.
Trajan - Trajan's Column [25]

 

[Legacy of Smiles]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [7+1=8] Potentially 15+ attack bonus on standard maps.
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [24-3=21] Gives you a bonus to early game wonders which means you can ignore the viable early rush strategy and attempt to rush pyramids, fail, and be left with nothing. This ability is nowhere near the best: if builders charges are so important for the first two eras you can use the governor for it who is available almost from the start of the game? The reason you don't use this governor is builder charges really aren't worth it.
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [20]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [25]

 

[Zdarg]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [8-3=5] To push falling one.
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [21+1=22] Solo reason you don't use Llang early is that Magnus is just better. But what you need to utilize Magnus power? Guess from three attempts.
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [20]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [25]

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [5+1=6] Still my favourite, and not because of the combat power especially, I just like luxury hunting. I think it is the best ability in terms of theme and civ fit, which is good enough for me.
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [22]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [20]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [25-3=22] It's very good but it's also really boring, I hope it doesn't win.

 

[Zdarg]

I specially vote during American night to avoid being crossposted, and still... Each time...
CORRECTION
Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [6]
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [22]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [20]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [22]

 

[AmazonQueen]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [6+1=7] - Its true this isn't available from the very start but it takes little effort to get going and will help make your Eagle Warriors unstoppable and the captured cities in your fast expanding empire happy.
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [22]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [20-3=17] - Least flexible of the bonuses remaining.
Trajan - Trajan's Column [22]

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [7]
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [22+1=23] Everyone needs builders. This ability frees up the need to take dedicate policy cards, a governor, or go for the pyramids. And it is useful for ALL victory conditions.
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [17]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [22-3=19] While the ability is certainly very useful right out the gate, it wanes when you shift from founding to conquering.

EDIT: Sorry. Gave Qin Shin Huang an extra point. Should not be posting at 4:30 AM....

 

[KayAU]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [7 - 3 = 4] It's all good, but not too useful in the beginning, when it would have mattered the most. By the time you get those crazy combat bonuses some people keep mentioning, you have already won a long time ago.
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [23]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [17]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [19 + 1 = 20] This one, on the other hand, helps you out significantly from the very start. It requires no investment or effort to get a very significant head start on culture production, which will carry you towards your first governors, more advanced governments, etc. Sure, it is not that powerful in the late game, but the way things work in Civilization, games are usually decided long before the late game.

Early advantage is king. Even if an ability wanes or even obsoletes over time, if it contributed to you getting a good start, its effects will have helped you with your entire game.

 

[Siptah]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [4]
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [23-3=20] tactical vote, since would like it to be #3.
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [17+1=18] It's definitely top 3 since it makes Scythia the strongest aggressive RV civ and one of the best civs for fighting and defending in general. In my book, it should be #2.
Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

Edit: corrected previous score for Qin

 

[Zdarg]

22+1=23, not 24.

 

[kryat]

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [4-3=1] Monte’s supposed CS bonus is nothing compared to the +18 Mongolia can have once spies come online.
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [20+1=21] Builders build empires.
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [18]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

 

[Siptah]

Stats should be:

Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [1]
Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [21]
Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [18]
Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]