Learning Deity: Hateshput

[Kid R]

How disappointing. Start play is now obvious and uninteresting.

 

[yena]

This is above my level but I will follow with interest. Subscribed. Gold will certainly help funding your initial expansion.

 

[gspchamp999]

Thoughts?

Reload, gold in first city BFC too strong

 

[Mylene]

No no, go on..this does not qualify for the awesome Hof quadruple gold starts collection, it's okay

 

[Killroyan]

@Shakabrade: That was a typo from Revent. He meant Bacow of course Good start btw. Will be following this.

 

[shakabrade]

@Shakabrade: That was a typo from Revent. He meant Bacow of course Good start btw. Will be following this.

It was Benginal actually, but yes, you are right. He probably meant bacow.
Just like bacon from racoon is bacoon.

Haha. Gold in BFC. Easy. Actually I played a bit to see which start is better:

Spoiler :

And BW wins because otherwise you get boxed by Tokugawa and because copper is easily connectable but that is just luck factor and not strategy. Although it isn't bad to have only 3-4 cities on this map and go for catapults and take Toku out. You can easily add one more AI to the list. With two golds (one more city can have gold too) construction comes really really fast. BTW this is low sea level map with 8AIs so its a bit crowded map. Crowded maps favor early chops to grab more land.

 

[Revent]

To All:

Sorry, on settling, I realised that the gold in the BFC really made this game a lot easier than it should be. So I have taken the decision to re roll the map and will be following on another thread. It is a slightly more tricky game with a coastal start, but I'm hoping it is not overpowered like this one.

Regarding the current game during exploration phase:

Spoiler :

There is another gold nearby and I managed to rush out a settler up north on exploration to settle a double gold and fish city. Hence my decision to drop as it is more of a crutch to the game rather than a learning experience for the highest difficulty. Not only did I have horses, I managed to also get copper and iron. All that would have been required was a beeline to MT via Lib which I'm sure would've been easily possible with 4 golds.

I will be creating a new thread for a re roll of the map to avoid and minimise confusion. Thanks for all the enthusiasm, it's really appreciated I will still be following this thread and will give this game a go if I can enjoy the current game.

 

[Mylene]

?!? Deity isn't won just cos you have some gold -.-
Don't get influenced by opinions too much, 1 look in world builder told me that's not an overly easy map..

 

[Revent]

?!? Deity isn't won just cos you have some gold -.-
Don't get influenced by opinions too much, 1 look in world builder told me that's not an overly easy map..

I know it's not an easy map. I don't think there's anything such as easy Deity However, I think I would learn a lot more if I don't have the gold to aid me. 4 Gold's is an extra 28 commerce without Libraries and the lot taken into account.

 

[shakabrade]

?!? Deity isn't won just cos you have some gold -.-
Don't get influenced by opinions too much, 1 look in world builder told me that's not an overly easy map..

One doesn't learn setting up an empire and battling maintenance costs and poor research on deity if one has 4 golds available. Even one BFC gold makes things a lot easier. Battles, and AIs can still be tough, I agree but...

 

[Mylene]

Omg don't you start sounding like certain peoples..."one" does this, "one" does that..
we have some guys making heroes out of themselves here with super starts, and then we have a new deity player who starts over cos of 1 BFC gold mine.
*Shakes her head walking out of this forum for today*

 

[Revent]

Omg don't you start sounding like certain peoples..."one" does this, "one" does that..
we have some guys making heroes out of themselves here with super starts, and then we have a new deity player who starts over cos of 1 BFC gold mine.
*Shakes her head walking out of this forum for today*

My biggest weakness in Civ is maintaining an economy. I do pretty well on my diplomatics which I know is a big part on Deity. Prioritising when to do what with my workers is also a weakness. So these are some of the things that I'd like to improve and starting with a gold in the BFC won't help me manage my economy better.

Sorry, I honestly don't mean to offend anyone, I just want to improve my game overall, but specifically my economy management

For example, when I played this out, take a look

Spoiler :

That's right, Toku had 2 workers on one tile and a scout one tile away from them.

 

[Manco Capac]

Worker stealing yum yum...

Target: Toku.

Horse nearby: Phewww.

 

[Gumbolt]

Worker stealing is a double edge sword on deity. Firstly because the Ai reach BW/IW much quicker. Secondly because they start with 2 cities and will no doubt whip lots of archers. The final issue is you might get -1 diplo hit with 3-4 other AI.

With horse nearby you would think you are safe. 2 workers early on is a big advantage. Toku is hopefully backwards enough that he can't bribe another AI into war.

 

[Shaandore]

Too bad you didn't finish this. I don't think that some golds are such a big thing. You could always learn new thing on a new difficulty. Get a feel for barbs, for AI bonuses, for REX speed, later era AI tech speed. There are many things to learn about, especially after moving up a level.

And avoiding frustration is also nice

I wish the best of luck on the new map, I will be following that too! (Don't count on my advice though, I just strated to win on Immortal)

 

[shakabrade]

Omg don't you start sounding like certain peoples..."one" does this, "one" does that..
we have some guys making heroes out of themselves here with super starts, and then we have a new deity player who starts over cos of 1 BFC gold mine.
*Shakes her head walking out of this forum for today*

Mylene, dramatic as always. Sound like who?

In thread called Learning Deity, I suspect man is trying to learn Deity.
Revent is learning basics on empire management and best way to do so is without BFC gold. I remember when I started with Deity, I played only BFC gold starts and with FIN leaders and was winning now and then. And then I started playing all leaders and starts and found myself killing economy with 5 cities. I was totally unaware of that aspect of Deity before despite actually winning a game or two. If Revent learns how to not commit economical suicide, how to research fast with low bpt, he'll be able to do wonders with BFC gold and also he'll learn this game faster.
Besides, now we have Revent saying what are his goals:

My biggest weakness in Civ is maintaining an economy. I do pretty well on my diplomatics which I know is a big part on Deity. Prioritising when to do what with my workers is also a weakness. So these are some of the things that I'd like to improve and starting with a gold in the BFC won't help me manage my economy better.

Sorry, I honestly don't mean to offend anyone, I just want to improve my game overall, but specifically my economy management

Spoiler :

This game could be very hard since there are peaceful supertechers on the other continent. That means that he must be able to naval invade and kill them by 1800AD although earlier cultural victory could be possible (and clear his own continent). Something very difficult for inexperienced player. And still he wouldn't learn a thing about early economy. Rerolling is better option. Improving his play from Turn 0.

Revent, I suggest you make more standard game next time if you want more people to shadow it. By that I mean medium or high sea level and 6AIs. Some people have old computers.

 

[Manco Capac]

Omg don't you start sounding like certain peoples..."one" does this, "one" does that..
we have some guys making heroes out of themselves here with super starts, and then we have a new deity player who starts over cos of 1 BFC gold mine.
*Shakes her head walking out of this forum for today*

I don't get the thing, but there is a truth there that a single gold tile doesn't equate an easy all the times...because on deity...neighbourhood AND surounding lands AND created lovefests can make a hell of a game even with a high commerce start.

Indeed, if one wants to learn deity expansion without freebies from gentle lady RNG, then start a zero high commerce start (might be hard to control surroundings though without regenerating). Then one will learn how to balance juicy trade (tech brokering), Writing importance, cottages and minor aspects that help (like be considerate of coastal sites when no river are spawned at all and minor stuff like that).

Nevertheless, in general, to quote your favorite hero:

If the 'General' BtS forum members read that, they'll be screaming how overpowered this is. Because gems is ZOMG!!! That's a guaranteed win right there.

Must have Gems....

 

[Revent]

Mylene, dramatic as always. Sound like who?

In thread called Learning Deity, I suspect man is trying to learn Deity.
Revent is learning basics on empire management and best way to do so is without BFC gold. I remember when I started with Deity, I played only BFC gold starts and with FIN leaders and was winning now and then. And then I started playing all leaders and starts and found myself killing economy with 5 cities. I was totally unaware of that aspect of Deity before despite actually winning a game or two. If Revent learns how to not commit economical suicide, how to research fast with low bpt, he'll be able to do wonders with BFC gold and also he'll learn this game faster.
Besides, now we have Revent saying what are his goals:

Spoiler :

This game could be very hard since there are peaceful supertechers on the other continent. That means that he must be able to naval invade and kill them by 1800AD although earlier cultural victory could be possible (and clear his own continent). Something very difficult for inexperienced player. And still he wouldn't learn a thing about early economy. Rerolling is better option. Improving his play from Turn 0.

Revent, I suggest you make more standard game next time if you want more people to shadow it. By that I mean medium or high sea level and 6AIs. Some people have old computers.

Will bear the 6 AI in mind, thanks Regarding the sea levels, what does it actually do? I honestly have no idea.

Too bad you didn't finish this. I don't think that some golds are such a big thing. You could always learn new thing on a new difficulty. Get a feel for barbs, for AI bonuses, for REX speed, later era AI tech speed. There are many things to learn about, especially after moving up a level.

And avoiding frustration is also nice

I wish the best of luck on the new map, I will be following that too! (Don't count on my advice though, I just strated to win on Immortal)

Thanks This game isn't dropped so to speak but it's not a focus of mine at the moment. The learning thread I linked is the one I'm focusing on.

Worker stealing yum yum...

Target: Toku.

Horse nearby: Phewww.

Worker stealing is a double edge sword on deity. Firstly because the Ai reach BW/IW much quicker. Secondly because they start with 2 cities and will no doubt whip lots of archers. The final issue is you might get -1 diplo hit with 3-4 other AI.

With horse nearby you would think you are safe. 2 workers early on is a big advantage. Toku is hopefully backwards enough that he can't bribe another AI into war.

I played on and killed Toku bunch of chariots razed every city though. He only had 4 cities. Only got a diplo with Pacal and Huyana. Normally, wouldn't have stolen the worker, but with all those hills/forests, it meant scout would be easier to kill and the fact that there were two workers on one tile was too tempting. Leaving some chariots there for some spawnbusting. Feel that this may have been a bad move because now there's room for AI to settle.

 

[Manco Capac]

I played on and killed Toku bunch of chariots razed every city though. He only had 4 cities. Only got a diplo with Pacal and Huyana. Normally, wouldn't have stolen the worker, but with all those hills/forests, it meant scout would be easier to kill and the fact that there were two workers on one tile was too tempting. Leaving some chariots there for some spawnbusting. Feel that this may have been a bad move because now there's room for AI to settle.

Nice. Didn't know you were given for worker stealing. Then don't miss my burgeoning article on that subject. Should finish that though...but such a big work...

 

[Gumbolt]

Will bear the 6 AI in mind, thanks Regarding the sea levels, what does it actually do? I honestly have no idea.

I played on and killed Toku bunch of chariots razed every city though. He only had 4 cities. Only got a diplo with Pacal and Huyana. Normally, wouldn't have stolen the worker, but with all those hills/forests, it meant scout would be easier to kill and the fact that there were two workers on one tile was too tempting. Leaving some chariots there for some spawnbusting. Feel that this may have been a bad move because now there's room for AI to settle.

The low sea level will mean exactly that. It means a lot more land than a normal map. Adding in extra Ai will make it slightly tougher. The problem is the Ai over expand in cases and you end up with one huge Ai somewhere. As generally one AI will luck out and get huge swathes of land. I think the Ai perform better when they have smaller empires as they tech much faster. At least you got the workers.

I still don't get this learning deity thing and then complaining each start is too easy. Set up a game with medium sea level on a pangea and see how you do. On continents you know if you do 1 early rush chances are you will have 1-2 peaceful Ai left. The downside is less trading partners and a continent that will be much more advanced.

The downside of doing a rush and razing all the cities is you have put all these hammers into WC and then decided that you want to spend more hammers on building settlers. I think I would of at least kept the capital. The other issue is barbs spawning. On deity they come thick and fast where there is fog. You only have to try Kossin barb deity game to see how quickly on an empty continent barbs will swarm.