Learning Monarch: Cyrus

[emes]

Hi!

Once again Cyrus the Great is trying to win as Monarch. I know this title may be an insult for this Emperor whose army consists of Immortals, but... I'm learning

Why Cyrus?

• great UU (what you'll see below) and nice UB
• Chm + Imp = advanced army
• is Persian and I know few words in his language

So, the settings:

Spoiler :

Yes, you may call me a cheater, but my setting is Raging Barbarians. The first objective was to find Horses (for UU) and Stone to get protected from the barbs.

First turns were a miracle: Horses next to capital and Stone few squares away in a good site for second city. While my Immortals were gaining experience by fending off barbarians, a Great Wall was built.

I placed third city near copper and fourth at the source of Iron.

Then, with a pack of Immortals on steroids, I claimed the land occupied by sissy Louis:

Spoiler :

My empire consists of:

Spoiler :

An is being defended by:

Spoiler :

...and a Wall.

 

[Gumbolt]

Beware of rising city upkeep costs and the effect distance from capital has. This can kill a waring economy to the point of it being in stike with 0 science being produced a turn. Remember when a captured city comes out of disorder this will have a upkeep cost a turn. Unless the city has gold in its border its hard to pay for this. its here codes of law and court houses help.

All out war is fun but you have to continually be razing cities to pay for this. Downside is eventually someone will tech feudalism and you will face long bowmen. Even immortals may struggle against those.

8 science beakers a turn for 925bc seems a tad low. I figure the Ai will have longbowmen by 300bc or so on a average game.

Have you a plan for when the immortal part of game ends?

 

[emes]

So, the start is more than promising. It looks just perfect. Unfortunately, I already screwed up few similar situations

After the war my research is running on 40% and will definitely plunge down when French cities come out from disorder.

Nearest neighbors are Quin in SE and Mehmet in S (and probably Brennus in NW). That would be a good use for my Immortals, which are otherwise useless as the Wall defends me against barbs. Chinese are close, just next to my Ecbatana with Iron, but they're Protective.

I'd like to keep conquering. This seems to be the best way to keep my budget running and leads to Domination win. The main questions are:

• War: How to attack after my neighbors get (and probably already got) Spearmen? Swordsmen and Axes are good, but I'm weak in wars before Catapults (read: i usually fail to generate that huge stack given the time and resources).
• Research: Talking about Catapults, we could get them soon if the research rate was good. And it's appalling.
• Integrity: Barbs will destroy routes between cities. I can dedicate some units to keep them alive or just settle the silks in center with another city. The problem is, the only water around is surrounded by desert and hills, so no farms and low food there until CS. Anyway, if I don't do it, some stupid AI will try.

Another view:

Spoiler :

So, ideas?

 

[vicawoo]

I don't think great wall is that useful when you have such nice immortals. Although...

The next best step for domination is horse archers. They'll roll everything until longbows.

 

[emes]

Unless the city has gold in its border its hard to pay for this. its here codes of law and court houses help.

All out war is fun but you have to continually be razing cities to pay for this.

So, should I have razed these cities?
Indeed, they're nothing great. Paris has lots of food and can be used for whip production, but Orleans... the only things it has are Copper (which I have) and religion. Both are empty, no buildings.

I'm thinking about giving Orleans as a gift to some other civ and let them ruin their budget. Will it be possible? I never tried and wonder what conditions are to be met in order to trade a city.

Have you a plan for when the immortal part of game ends?

No, and that's why I'm posting here
The general plan is to build an empire and go in direction of Domination. I mean not only conquering and razing, but also extending my borders. This requires researching two topics: war and maintenance.

 

[DaveMcW]

Cottages!!

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Can you post the 4000 bs save? I'd like to play a shadow.

 

[emes]

Cottages!!

Yes, definitely. I like them and have the Wall to protect poor peasants.

Can you post the 4000 bs save? I'd like to play a shadow.

Ok. Will do it tomorrow, as today I have no access to my gaming box

 

[Gumbolt]

Dave has a point. Cottages!!!

You have a river flowing through your capital. This should be cottaged to death. Even on the flood plains. Financial civs lap up cottages due to the extra trade.

In terms of wars. I would certainly raze any far off city that held no value to me. The upkeep will be 6-9+ per turn early on. Ai capitals are sometimes worth keeping. These normally hold lots of food resources and other goodies. It is cheaper to build cities near your capital.

If you are low on finances barb cities normally provide 50-100 gold. Dont forget there is an upkeep cost for units outside your cultural borders. Currency will allow you to trade gold. Or rather demand gold for peace.

If you can steal an AI holy city this will improve your finances. That and great merchants/Priests. It will need a shrine.

I would of built the great wall myself. The game always seems to do barb event with spears when you play Cyrus. Whilst in numbers immortals can eventually take down a spearman a stack of 4-5 is bad news.

You do have 2 gold resources between your capital and paris that might help your economy.

I would continue to pump out those immortals. If you start a war with an Ai try and finish him/her off otherwise they will just rebuild new cities.

 

[Belisar]

You should have raised Orleans (as a rule of thumb, only keep capitals, holy cities, wonder-cities and high-commerce cities in an early rush)
Build a library in Paris and run scientists, settle the gold and also run cottages on those floodplains/riverside grassland.

Your situation always reminds me why I consider Darius better than Cyrus, he is stronger on the economic part and can afford to keep more of what his immortals capture.

 

[emes]

You should have raised Orleans (as a rule of thumb, only keep capitals, holy cities, wonder-cities and high-commerce cities in an early rush)

First lesson learned

Your situation always reminds me why I consider Darius better than Cyrus, he is stronger on the economic part and can afford to keep more of what his immortals capture.

I never played Darius. Immortals with Chm+Imp always seemed better to me in terms of bringing lots of GGs. But now I understand it and definitely give a try with Darius.

 

[Gumbolt]

Your game is still very winnable even without Darius.

 

[emes]

If you want to give this setup a try...
...the initial save is here

Please post no spoilers.

 

[Gumbolt]

Kinda got 3 games on the go at mo. Although it is Cyrus.

 

[dubrown]

At this point I would have focused on peaceful rexing for a while instead of more warring, you need to connect your empire. Also, there's plenty of undiscovered territory left, send your immortals exploring.

On the Immortal, sure it's a good early unit, but it's uses past the early rush is limited. So my advice, rex peacefully now, fill the caps, get your economy going and you'll probably be ready for a new war with maces, trebs and knights instead if you can get the economy going quick enough to not fall behind in research.

 

[Gumbolt]

Pssst which mod did you download for this??

 

[emes]

Ok, so time goes and Cyrus is trying to keep his finances running rather than running his horses.

Green areas around the capital and core cities have been cottaged. To do that, his people needed to learn Pottery. Also, using his fame of a cruel conquistador, he had asked Englishmen to share the secrets of Fishing. They couldn't resist and citizens of Paris returned to use their fishing boats to harvest Clams (which unfortunately have been demolished soon by barbarian ships).

Wandering Immortals visited territories of China:

Spoiler :

and Turkey:

Spoiler :

Razing a barbarian city near Turkish border, Cyrus earned a bit of money to learn Mathematics soon and open a way to Currency.

Turkey, having no metal and only weak archers, has been selected as next target. It can be done with Immortals, which will probably retire after this war.

Meanwhile, Incas settled the gold:

Spoiler :

So, I'm preparing for a war. With about 7-8 Immortals I should be able to crush Mehmed's outer cities and attack capital when reinforcements arrive.

I'm getting worried about the possibility of being attacked by someone else while at war with Turkey. Although they don't have strong friends (max +3 with Victoria) and Cyrus and Vic are far strongest than others by looking on power graph, someone (Incas or Chinese) could try luck on my outer cities. Apart from arming them with units, I could also embrace Taoism making a friend with Huayana and pissing off Quin. What do you think?

PS: The mod needed for this game is HOF mod in the latest version for BtS. I'm not attempting to beat records, but just find some of it's features very useful - especially autosaves and messages about cities growing or going into unhappinness/unhealthiness.

 

[emes]

Regarding the Turkish territories, I'll have no mercy. Nothing valuable's there. My forces will pillage, kill, rape and burn down everything ;>

 

[Gumbolt]

Qin is much closer to your capital. Although protective. Your science at 25 beakers a turn is a huge worry. You had stone to chop out pyramids.

You could of maintained a war economy with immortals. Its all in the recovery.

 

[emes]

In 10AD my army stands on a pile of rubble which just moments before was a glorious city of Istanbul.

Spoiler :