Learning Quechua rush (noble)

[dalamb]

I've attached a saved game from my attempt to learn the Quechua rush at Noble level (the highest level I play comfortably).

I started on what turned out to be a peninusla, so my "rush" was all in one direction. Conquering the English was straightforward; I built up troops while hanging around on hills watching for suspicious activity (eg mining the bronze).

I proceeded to take on the Germans, which was a bit harder. Now, this is a save from several turns before where I stopped: when Berlin gets out of resistance, it gets -6 maintenance, which reduces my research to 40%. Did I make a mistake trying to conquer a civ so far from my capital? should I have razed Berlin instead? I currently think taking it is OK, especally given how well developed it is (and with the 2 workers) but that taking any more cities would be a mistake.

So, if that's true, what I do with the Quechua now? Isabella is visible NW of Berlin, Cyrus SE, and from other tries I know that Caesar is west of Cyrus. Should I try to eliminate one? or go for resource denial? I'm guessing they have axemen by now since England had bronze for a while and they might also. Should I just use individual Quechua to scout?

I'm currently expecting to focus the 3 current cities on backfilling new cities -- one E of the stone, one on the west coast near the fish, one NE to get clams plus either horses (low prio, already have some with Berlin) or pigs. Any other advice?

 

[DaveMcW]

Did I make a mistake trying to conquer a civ so far from my capital? should I have razed Berlin instead?

Yes.

One capital is all you should hope for from a Quecha rush, unless you are trying for conquest on a tiny map. You should easily be able to build towards you favorite victory condition with double the land of everyone else.

 

[DaviddesJ]

At Noble, you should easily be able to build toward your favorite victory condition with half the land of everyone else.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

A Quechua rush is an odd tactic at Noble. Quechuas have a bonus against archers which help at higher levels where the AI starts with archery. At noble, Quechua are really no better than warriors since first AI you rush won't have archers.

 

[dalamb]

I did a site search for "quecha (sic) rush" and I thought I'd seen several people mention taking over 2 neighbouring civs, which is why I went on to a 2nd.

Well, OK, if it's not useful at noble, if I want to learn the tactic properly, what level do I have to start with?

Once you finish conquering, do you continue to use the quechua for resource-denial? or razing civs like the Germans here?

 

[dragomaster]

maybe the capitols where near cruzo. Quechua rush is a nice thing on monarch, if a capitol i nearby you will easy take it.

 

[cabert]

on higher (monarch+) levels and slower speed, you can try to move your initial settler towards a good production/food site near a target.
It may take 10 turns, but the settler moves faster than the queshuas and you will have lower maintenance.

 

[futurehermit]

Yeah, moving your capital toward a neighbour initially is always a good idea! Especially if you get a coastal start, which I seem to 80+% of the time

 

[cabert]

Yeah, moving your capital toward a neighbour initially is always a good idea! Especially if you get a coastal start, which I seem to 80+% of the time

when you don't know fishing, a coastal start isn't very interesting

 

[vormuir]

I don't think Quechuas are useless at lower levels. They're just _less_ useful than at Monarch and up.

The Quechua is still a pretty good UU. Even after you're done warring, you'll want to use two or three as fogbusters, and keep your most experienced ones around for upgrading.

As for Berlin: consider the following.

1) Move your capital to a more central location. Maintenance costs depend on the number of cities and also on each city's distance from the capital. You always want your capital to be as central as possible. You move it by building the Palace in another city. (Note that the Palace generates commerce and culture, so choose your new capital carefully.)

2) Beeline for Code of Laws and/or Currency. COL lets you build courthouses which cut maintenance costs. Currency gives you an extra trade route in each city the moment you get it. Depending on your trade route situation (i.e., how many other civs you're in contact with, whether you have Sailing, etc.) this can add between 1 and 3 gold per city. That's just from *having* Currency, before you start to build Markets or anything.

3) If your research is 50% or lower, consider assigning some scientist specialists. (You need either Libraries or Caste System for this.) Assigning specialists will make your cities grow more slowly, but will give you a research boost.

4) If you have a good production city, or access to marble, consider building the Great Library. This requires Literature, but that's not a very expensive tech. AI civs will race you to this -- it's a popular Wonder -- but even if they beat you, you'll get a nice hit of gold that will let you raise your research rate for a while.

Meanwhile, retire the Quechuas -- they've done their job. Civ IV tends to follow a pattern of "war... digest your conquests... more war". It sounds like you're ready for a digestive period. Continuous war is usually a bad idea in this game!

cheers,


Waldo

 

[oyzar]

just whip up dity duel vs random non-protective civ and go to town.

 

[Cam_H]

Did I make a mistake trying to conquer a civ so far from my capital? should I have razed Berlin instead? I currently think taking it is OK, especally given how well developed it is (and with the 2 workers) but that taking any more cities would be a mistake.

This is probably the first and last time I disagree with DaveMcW, but I think that you've done the right thing in keeping Berlin - it's a super part-developed city that will go gangbusters when it's up and running.

You're focussing on hammer-heavy tiles rather than food and commerce, so it doesn't surprise me that your science rate drops.

Cuzco is in desparate need of Workers. I would emphasise food, build it up to the cap, and pop out two Workers as priority.

So, if that's true, what I do with the Quechua now?

Personally I'd turtle up and head loosely towards Construction. If you want to pillage and deny resources, do so in a while with a party or two of Spears and a couple of Shock-promoted Axes.

I agree with several other posters re. your Quechuas; while they've got you this far (incl. Heroic Epic status), they've probably had their 'day in the sun'. You only have four Quechua units left anyway, so you would have to gear up a fresh new army, which personally I wouldn't for now. You may be successful in denting, if not destroying another rival with another wave of these guys, but I doubt that it would be any more successful than a little more emphasis on getting your terrain improved and science into a new Era.

You've done well so far! Keep it up!

 

[dalamb]

Thanks for all the advice.

I dd wonder if maybe the quechua were about done except as fog-busters -- I only recently got clued in as to how important fog-busting could be when, in a different game, I started getting barbarian axemen when I still only had warrior/archer units. Consolidating now makes a lot of sense -- I just wish I had the army ready to raze Spain, since Isabella can be a real pain in the ass.

I'm thinking about moving the palace to London, eventually, but building it won't happen for quite a while -- need a 4th city first, then need to wait for 240 hammers' worth of production (2 current plus 5 (or 6?) from bronze would mean about 35 turns, 24 or less if I can get a mine going on a nearby hill).

The only reason for not building my own worker yet was the rush to conquer the 2 nearest civs; I'll likely move the captured London worker to Cuzco soon and one of the Berlin ones to London -- want a worker in London in 8 turns to mine the bronze, since it will be a few turns after that before the Cuzco bronze is available.

After that I'd kind of like to build a city near the stone, perhaps to try for the pyramids.