Lesson Learned: Never take more than two cities on huge maps.

[Sharples]

Especially when an aggressive AI dows you and right before you take their second city, the world congress happens and someone finds all the nations, then take it and then their capital, your diplomatic decisions are ruined forever.

Oh, and even Portugal denouced me, even when I gave them gold when they asked, I traded with them recently, DoF, Gave them their settler back from barbs and embassies.

 

[BurnBabyBurn]

Interesting, getting denounced by every civ on the map. I have played over a thousand hours and I got DOWs probably from every Civ before I got Denounced by every Civ.

Which is probably meaning they respect your military power. Regardless of your reasoning you seem to be in a power position to go for a Domination Victory? If your Epic game speed those 9 XBs can get range/logistics and you can start dishing out punishment on your foes.(train some Trebs into Artillery ranged)

I would expect at least one warmonger friend from a distance Capitol location :C Next time you do this, make the other guy the enemy by asking him to DOW 5 or 6 people and pay him everything. Then denounce him and then Kill him.

P.S. It's early enough eventually they will forgive you.

 

[Sharples]

Forget the Denoucations, EVERY SINGLE CIV DECLARES WAR ON ME FOR TAKING TWO CITIES.

Okay a few things, I understand coalitions and how they happened in real life. But to have one happen at 1080 AD and the entire world declaring war on you is absolutely ridiculous, ESPECIALLY when you was defending a war against an aggressive AI.

This is also a huge map, you expect me to stay peaceful....?

I know you get extra warmongering penalties if you take the last city of an AI, so I was expecting around like what three-four denounces, of course THIS WOULD happen if the stupid game didn't give you a "Other civs we like more than you have denouced you!"

I also sent my force downwards to re-capture the city of Lisbon that Songhai had taken, I was going to give it back to get rid of the warmongering stuff, but obviously when an AI is hostile it won't EVER give you a chance.

I don't care what anyone says, this proves the game has horrible diplomacy.

Edit: Oh I also gave back Lisbon, the warmongering penalties didn't reduce or go away -.-

 

[Valmighty]

Probably because you genocide the French. Please look up the warmonger penalty formula at wikia. France only has 2 cities and you take them all. Pretty sure that's extreme warmongering penalty.

I did that with Russia, they only have 3 cities, i take two, then the whole map DoW me.

I also always play on huge map. It says that huge map has the lowest warmongering penalty so the key is to take the city slowly. You have like 6000 years to play, don't take their city in 4-5 turns.

War, take cities, liberate some others, peace deal to take other cities, repeat. Also asking and bribing other civs to war and taking each other's capital is huge help.

I don't care what anyone says, this proves the game has horrible diplomacy.

This game has worse diplomacy system than civ4 but that doesn't mean it's horrible. It's better in BNW and it's somewhat realistic.

Imagine USA DoW Japan and genocide them. What do you think would happen?

 

[Sharples]

Probably because you genocide the French. Please look up the warmonger penalty formula at wikia. France only has 2 cities and you take them all. Pretty sure that's extreme warmongering penalty.

I did that with Russia, they only have 3 cities, i take two, then the whole map DoW me.

I also always play on huge map. It says that huge map has the lowest warmongering penalty so the key is to take the city slowly. You have like 6000 years to play, don't take their city in 4-5 turns.

War, take cities, liberate some others, peace deal to take other cities, repeat. Also asking and bribing other civs to war and taking each other's capital is huge help.


This game has worse diplomacy system than civ4 but that doesn't mean it's horrible. It's better in BNW and it's somewhat realistic.

Imagine USA DoW Japan and genocide them. What do you think would happen?

This isn't the present day, and if France attacked me, why should I face the consequences of killing them? I mean aren't they dowing me to do the same thing?

I mean it's just ridiculous, taking two cities on a huge map with the reduced warmongering mechanics in the renaissance/ancient eras really should not get every single nation to dow you, I just don't think it'd make sense for that to happen.

Oh also, you know Askia? The AI? He took five Portuguese cities, razed all of them apart from the capital. Guess what he got? Four denounces... That's it? So letting the Portuguese survive with a one pop city means the entire world is content with them still existing in the game yet being pretty much useless and exiled from their homeland? But yet when an aggressive AI dows me everyone hates you when you try to get rid of that problem (I thought that is what countries treated other countries as barbarians because they're dowing for cities )

 

[kaspergm]

The joys of Civ5 warmonger penalty. There are mods that help with this, fortunately.

 

[Sharples]

The joys of Civ5 warmonger penalty. There are mods that help with this, fortunately.

Can you please link me these mods? Thanks.

 

[Drakarska]

Can you please link me these mods? Thanks.

Same here please, would appreciate the MOD info. While I don't usually go conquest vic, having the whole world denounce you ( especially ironic, considering the whole world hasn't been discovered yet) is a royal PITA.

 

[kaspergm]

Can you please link me these mods? Thanks.

Not sure how to link to mods on Steam, but if you go to the Workshop section for Civ5 and search "Warmonger" a list of possible options come up: One that removes Warmonger hate completely (seems a bit radical, but that's an option, it's called "No Warmonger Hate" by CoolSquid), one that reduces warmonger hate by 60 % (called "Diplomacy - Warmonger debuff" by [LFD] Panteradactyl) and one that seems to reduce it variably but in the extent of 40 % (called "Less Warmonger Hate (BNW)" by ninakoru). I'm sure there are others, but these seems to cover the ground reasonably well.

I play with a mod that reduces the Warmonger penalty from city capture by about 50 % and furthermore makes it decay 5 times as fast as in normal game. This is part of a larger modpack that changes other things also, but I do feel that these changes makes the game tremendously more enjoyable, so I can recommend it. Particularly I like the fact that AI will consider you a warmonger if you eradicate someone, but that this will go away after an era or two of no warmongering, which actually makes early warmongering meaningful without destroying diplomatic game for the entire duration of the game.

 

[Sharples]

Not sure how to link to mods on Steam, but if you go to the Workshop section for Civ5 and search "Warmonger" a list of possible options come up: One that removes Warmonger hate completely (seems a bit radical, but that's an option, it's called "No Warmonger Hate" by CoolSquid), one that reduces warmonger hate by 60 % (called "Diplomacy - Warmonger debuff" by [LFD] Panteradactyl) and one that seems to reduce it variably but in the extent of 40 % (called "Less Warmonger Hate (BNW)" by ninakoru). I'm sure there are others, but these seems to cover the ground reasonably well.

I play with a mod that reduces the Warmonger penalty from city capture by about 50 % and furthermore makes it decay 5 times as fast as in normal game. This is part of a larger modpack that changes other things also, but I do feel that these changes makes the game tremendously more enjoyable, so I can recommend it. Particularly I like the fact that AI will consider you a warmonger if you eradicate someone, but that this will go away after an era or two of no warmongering, which actually makes early warmongering meaningful without destroying diplomatic game for the entire duration of the game.

Thank you for this, I'll be sure to test it out, wonder if it is compatible with the YnAEMP mod. Would be exciting to see.

 

[poom3619]

A war that you end up taking every enemy city is hardly a defensive war no matter how you justify that. How to move along the current warmongering expansion is to conquer the enemy until the left with one city and then go to the next and repeat until you powerful enough to take on everyone. It is still bad when you do have idea for it.

About Mod, It should be compatible as long as it doesn't tampering with world map, which is highly unlikely.

 

[Callonia]

What the , I never have this happen to me. I wipe out alot of civs and do genocide and try every evil trick in the book but the AIs is too afraid to denounce and go to war against me.

WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO!

You're clearly doing something differently.

YOu know what? I'm goign to start wiping out city states asap so I can try to get same kind of reaction from the world like you do! The city states I don't care abuot that is!

 

[Breezin]

Forget the Denoucations, EVERY SINGLE CIV DECLARES WAR ON ME FOR TAKING TWO CITIES.

Okay a few things, I understand coalitions and how they happened in real life. But to have one happen at 1080 AD and the entire world declaring war on you is absolutely ridiculous, ESPECIALLY when you was defending a war against an aggressive AI.

This is also a huge map, you expect me to stay peaceful....?

I know you get extra warmongering penalties if you take the last city of an AI, so I was expecting around like what three-four denounces, of course THIS WOULD happen if the stupid game didn't give you a "Other civs we like more than you have denouced you!"

I also sent my force downwards to re-capture the city of Lisbon that Songhai had taken, I was going to give it back to get rid of the warmongering stuff, but obviously when an AI is hostile it won't EVER give you a chance.

I don't care what anyone says, this proves the game has horrible diplomacy.

Edit: Oh I also gave back Lisbon, the warmongering penalties didn't reduce or go away -.-

Ha. I've never seen that before. It's actually funny.

Diplomacy was always and still is Civ V's weakpoint.

Hopefully, Civ VI gets an improvement. By improvement, I don't want then just to plug in BERT's interesting but still boring system.

I'd like a hybrid of VI, V, BERT, and new ideas.

 

[Sclb]

I've never seen something like this in BNW. Are you sure you don't have some weird mods? The only time I've seen mass DoW is when I've eliminated multiple civs, but not all, and some survivors managed to bribe others to DoW.

 

[Callonia]

In civ5 game i'm playing now and I've been far more ruthless and brutal than the sissy OP.

I have wiped out two civs, and razed 10+ cities and entire world is guarded/neutral towards me now. But I did have few wars dow'd on me though.

But I still were able to maintain 6gpt for lux trades with some AIs.

Only thing that's different is that from what I have seen... there's two other AIs that's going on a genocide spree too like me. They both took two AI capitals each. And I think I met one of them, rome which has portugal cities.

And there's no world congress yet.

And I succeeded in extracting 52 gpt for 30 turns tribute from netherlands.

And that's with me wiping out the Morocco on turn 75..

edit: Just got an cojoint dow from japan, ottomans, austria, netherlands, venice. Basically, all my neighbors. Occured few turns after world congress got set up. I think I'm starting to get a idea how this whole thing works.

 

[bcaiko]

Yeah, as others have pointed out, the biggest issue is you removed a Civ from the game. You really need to have an ally in the bag before you remove someone or you're going to get exactly what you got - a snowball of hate.

I sympathize, though. I've incurred a me-against-the-globe war like this, and it's painful. Nobody will solicit peace now until you remove more Civs from the game, unfortunately. The agreements they made will hold them in war nearly forever, otherwise.

This is definitely an instance of the AI reacting poorly because it lacks the necessary casus belli for proper decision making. Even if a war-hating AI disapproved of you removing the French, that should have been mitigated somewhat by an understanding that it was the French being belligerent.

 

[sixty4half]

There had to be something more to it. I've wiped out several civs and not had every AI in the world denounce/DoW. The few times I've had this situation happen to me was due to 2 diff scenarios. I forgot I had DoFd someone and they tried to spread their religion so I DoWd them. OR, I told someone that I would remove my army from their borders and then proceeded to attack a few turns later.

OP HAD to have done one of those, or something similar.

 

[Callonia]

There had to be something more to it. I've wiped out several civs and not had every AI in the world denounce/DoW. The few times I've had this situation happen to me was due to 2 diff scenarios. I forgot I had DoFd someone and they tried to spread their religion so I DoWd them. OR, I told someone that I would remove my army from their borders and then proceeded to attack a few turns later.

OP HAD to have done one of those, or something similar.

I think you has just shown us in how untrustworthy the OP is.

I shall summarize what has unfolded today because I think it will contribute to understanding OP's screenshot.

I was very bloodthirsty... wiped out Morocco/Spain.

Razed 6+ Netherlands cities.

This locked Venice, Japan, Netherlands, Austria, Ottomans into eternal war against me that started in Renaissance era and lasted until Modern Era.

I crushed Venice first because Venice weakest.

Then 1-2 turns after I conquered Istanbul from behind with my navy.

This pissed Japan off because Austria made no progress but she was doing a good job of keeping me locked in place because her capital is currently unassailable.

Japan backstabbed Austria by dowing on Austria.

This broke the coalition's spirit against me.

Ottomans just gave up and let me gain four cities in peace treaty and re-position his troops against Japan.

Austria became friendly towards me and requested peace treaty and promised to gift me the city of Linz in exchange for peace which I accepted.

Netherlands gave up a crappy city which I gifted to England.

One of those times where pen proves to be mightier than the sword.

There is civilizations across the ocean that loves my warmongering ways and all the glory it has brought me....

In one not so brilliant move from Japan he singlehandlely permitted me to easily consolidate my gains and took all the aggro off me and onto himself. And this is coming from all the AIs who saw my warmongering ways will sink the world into a new dark age! But alas, I'm a honorable warmonger who has yet to break his own word. No wonder why I have been unable to anger the entire world into wanting me dead.

Even Siam stopped being hostile towards me. He seems to be making eyes towards Japan as well.

I intend to use Japan's biggest mistake ever to help me research science fast for the panzers. I'm just entering modern era XD

 

[sixty4half]

I think you has just shown us in how untrustworthy the OP is.

I shall summarize what has unfolded today because I think it will contribute to understanding OP's screenshot.

I was very bloodthirsty... wiped out Morocco/Spain.

Razed 6+ Netherlands cities.

This locked Venice, Japan, Netherlands, Austria, Ottomans into eternal war against me that started in Renaissance era and lasted until Modern Era.

I crushed Venice first because Venice weakest.

Then 1-2 turns after I conquered Istanbul from behind with my navy.

This pissed Japan off because Austria made no progress but she was doing a good job of keeping me locked in place because her capital is currently unassailable.

Japan backstabbed Austria by dowing on Austria.

This broke the coalition's spirit against me.

Ottomans just gave up and let me gain four cities in peace treaty and re-position his troops against Japan.

Austria became friendly towards me and requested peace treaty and promised to gift me the city of Linz in exchange for peace which I accepted.

Netherlands gave up a crappy city which I gifted to England.

One of those times where pen proves to be mightier than the sword.

There is civilizations across the ocean that loves my warmongering ways and all the glory it has brought me....

In one not so brilliant move from Japan he singlehandlely permitted me to easily consolidate my gains and took all the aggro off me and onto himself. And this is coming from all the AIs who saw my warmongering ways will sink the world into a new dark age! But alas, I'm a honorable warmonger who has yet to break his own word. No wonder why I have been unable to anger the entire world into wanting me dead.

Even Siam stopped being hostile towards me. He seems to be making eyes towards Japan as well.

I intend to use Japan's biggest mistake ever to help me research science fast for the panzers. I'm just entering modern era XD

I'm not calling anyone untrustworthy. i just think that he's new to the game and doesn't understand how SERIOUSLY (still don't feel I've put enough emphasis on SERIOUSLY) the AI takes it when you lie to them about DoWing a civ after you've DoFd or lied to them about what your armies were doing on their borders.

And to you, I would warn you that the AI will lie to you about it's feelings towards you. Just because it has bigger fish to fry right now doesn't mean it won't turn on you. However, in your case it sounds like you got enough from them that you're pretty much set up for now.

 

[Kwibuss]

I kind of like the way Civ5 diplo works. They will work together to stop the big aggresor which is the only way totackle a runaway civ afterall.
Specially backstabs will cause a lot of hate.