Lessons learned from MTDG II

Aivoturso

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One great advantage Team CFC has is multiple players from most teams playing the last MTDG (although there are some nasty defectors). I think we could benefit a lot if we try to find the strengths and weaknesses in the way the teams played the game. Let me start by stating the two obvious most dangerous pitfalls for any team:
  1. Failure in diplomacy. This is what ultimately ruined both Merlot and Mavericks. In multi site game the diplomatic environment will likely be much different from what it was during last game and major effor is again required here.
  2. Lack of commitment. This I believe caused problems at times for many teams the most notable result being Merlot taking over Mavericks. I am also ashamed to admit that Merlot might also ended up in trouble due to same problem without unrivaled commitment and integrity of king Slaze.

There are also few things I believe team Merlot did very well during the game. First thing is turn logging. If you haven't seen Merlot turn log yet, please take a look: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=359325. This level of logging enabled lurkers and people that just could not log in at the time to actively participate in planning.

Last but not least, one great strength of team Merlot was sheer skill level displayed by our leaders Indiansmoke and Slaze. Without excellently administered delay tactics they deployed, Merlot likely would have been wiped out much earlier. I believe that at this point we should try to recruit (e.g. using PMs) any known strong players that have not yet joinde a rival team. Has anyone for example asked Indiansmoke or Slaze to join the team yet?
 

Bowsling

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I found that Merlot diplomacy was quite well done. Caledorn and Snaker8 were excellent diplomats towards us; unfortunately, certain influential members of our team were quite prejudiced against a team lead by Indiansmoke.

What did you guys in was being opposite to Mavericks. The map really forced the teams opposite to each other into being allies with each other. Us and Amazons were pretty much inseparable for most of the game. I thought during the game that the Mavericks were actually actively trying to alienate us (like we were after the formation of the ETTT). Turns out I was wrong: they just thought we were afraid of them (seriously, reading their forums, obsolete kept saying were were scared sh*tless after I proposed a NAP to them).

As I've said before, diplomacy is what wins these games. Let's do it right.
 

cav scout

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I found that Merlot diplomacy was quite well done. Caledorn and Snaker8 were excellent diplomats towards us; unfortunately, certain influential members of our team were quite prejudiced against a team lead by Indiansmoke.

What did you guys in was being opposite to Mavericks. The map really forced the teams opposite to each other into being allies with each other. Us and Amazons were pretty much inseparable for most of the game. I thought during the game that the Mavericks were actually actively trying to alienate us (like we were after the formation of the ETTT). Turns out I was wrong: they just thought we were afraid of them (seriously, reading their forums, obsolete kept saying were were scared sh*tless after I proposed a NAP to them).

As I've said before, diplomacy is what wins these games. Let's do it right.

Yes, there was someone on Q that had a grudge against Indiansmoke. But the main reason we ended up isolating Merlot was their location on the star. The ETTT was balanced geographically and we didn't have to worry about being at war with two neighbors or at war with ragnar. Plus all the great players on Merlot made it a dangerous team that was a good one to eliminate early.
 

Aivoturso

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unfortunately, certain influential members of our team were quite prejudiced against a team lead by Indiansmoke.
That is also a part of diplomacy. Who will people associate a team with and what is their predisposition towards them has obviously an impact how the team will be treated. In this game I believe we also have to account for the fact that CFC is hosting the game. I am not sure though whether it will be an asset or a hinderance to our diplo efforts.
 

Caledorn

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Thank you for the kind words, Bowsling! :)

I was not happy with the diplomacy on Merlot, as I really did try to do my best within the elbowroom I had. You'd think a monarchy-style team would be more efficient at diplomacy than a democracy-style team, but I was very frustrated by Indiansmoke's lack of response to what I wrote in the diplomacy threads. In the beginning things were working well diplomacy-wise, but I remember quite clearly how close I was to resigning from the team entirely when Indiansmoke posted something in the UN thread about "Choosing the wrong person for diplomacy" in the turmoil that arose around the reload-request from Sommerswerd.

Don't get me wrong, I don't carry any grudges towards Indiansmoke - he is a great player, and he did an impressive job with Merlot! I just wish he had been more communicative towards me, as I would have handled him telling me "This is not good enough" in private a lot better than him giving me the feeling he had to "slap me" in public in front of all the teams like I felt he did.

I believe Sommerswerd will handle the diplomacy for our team now, but I'd like to flag that I would like a second go at diplomacy as I do enjoy it a lot.
 

2metraninja

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Why so many players had a grudge about Indiansmoke in the past? I joined the CFC multiplayer scene a bit later I guess, so I dont know many details for past heroes and villains.
 

Aivoturso

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I am also new to the scene, so I don't know about any real grudges. However, I've gathered that he is just too good and it's well know. See for example this message by Sommerswerd when our leader was announced: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9041476&postcount=3 (Well played, BTW. :D) That might be one reason why some people were inclined to wipe Merlot out first.

Back to the topic, based on Caledorn's message, it seem that there is another pitfall we'd better try to avoid Miscommunication. Not sure what can be done about this except try to keep all communication within the team public and civil.

Speaking of topic, I would like to hear insights from players in other teams as well. What went well, what could have been better and how to improve on team performance based on earlier MTDGs?
 

Caledorn

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Why so many players had a grudge about Indiansmoke in the past? I joined the CFC multiplayer scene a bit later I guess, so I dont know many details for past heroes and villains.

I don't think the issue was grudges, but rather the fact that Indiansmoke is a very skilled player. So I think the other teams viewed him as the most dangerous opponent. If the map had been designed differently, as in no home islands, I think Indiansmoke planned on eliminating others teams as early as possible given the chance. Something also reflected by his choice of civ/leader. :)

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
 

2metraninja

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OK, I see why Indiansmoke was feared and Merlot isolated in MTDG2. Being the favorite is hard task indeed. Hopefully this will work in our favor in MTDG3, as we dont have names who shine. Not like RB in this regard :p

Speaking of topic, I would like to hear insights from players in other teams as well. What went well, what could have been better and how to improve on team performance based on earlier MTDGs?
It is not a secret that if there is a single thing that won MTDG2 for Team Amazon, it was the diplomacy and if there is a single person most responsible for this win, it was Captain Sommerswerd. When I joined the team, I was not really content with the general strategy, but my job was to fight and win Amazon's wars and as a good soldier I first did and just then asked questions :) . I think we have struck very good combination: Active and skilful diplomacy (we were considered as the masterminds and arbiters of the ETTT and teams came to us for settling disputes) with strong army and decisive actions (being the only ones to actually engage Merlot and mess with their expansion in Marthaton, settling Nabaxica in the Center, capturing/razing The Circus and The Library forcing both Merlot and Mavs armies to attack us and we defeating them at Nabaxica putting end of the M&M threat, declaring war at Sirius and actively fighting them once they unilaterally withdrew from the ETTT).
 

Aivoturso

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TBH, I'm a bit afraid of Sommerswerd's reputation biting us in the behind. As you said, it's not a big secret that you won by diplomacy and that Sommerswerd was a key person in your diplo. Especially the teams that have defectors nice people who participated in in the last MTDG will no doubt be cautious of any diplomatic deals we offer. Any thoughts how to prepare for that?
 

Aivoturso

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Does not help if someone else is managing diplomacy as long as other parties believe it is Sommerswerd. Though it may be that I am just being paranoid here:crazyeye:. There are also teams that don't have members that played in CFC MTDGs. So the risk of others being wary of us may not be as big as I initially feared.
 

cav scout

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Actually I don't think we have to worry too much about our team reputation. I suspect that the super huge teams loaded with experienced players are likely to underestimate us.
 

Sommerswerd

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It is not a secret that if there is a single thing that won MTDG2 for Team Amazon, it was the diplomacy and if there is a single person most responsible for this win, it was Captain Sommerswerd.
Someone that was instrumental in the early diplomacy and drafting the ETTT was SilentConfusion. He was the original Diplomat on AMAZON, and he deserves so much praise and credit for all he did... He just dissappeared without a trace around the start of the Merlot War. I still wonder if he is OK or what? It is very eerie how he just vanished:(
:) Let me do the diplomacy instead? :mischief:
This:yup:
I suspect that the super huge teams loaded with experienced players are likely to underestimate us.
This!:goodjob:
 
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