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Let's play Deity: Hatshepsut

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Pangea
    Part 11: Spy vs Spy

    Spoiler :


    My cities / workers are automated at this point. I'm not to concerned as I should have this game easily.

    In case you ever wondered what a really good spy bonus looks like ( dont forget to take down the SecBur first ):

    Spoiler :


    If I generate 700 EPs a turn then that's like researching that tech in 1 turn! That's better then even Mansa ( who did it in 2 turns IIRC ). Nothing beats spying in terms of research speed.

    I steal corp, gunpowder, chem, steel and bio.

    In 6 turns I will steal fusion from him too :)

    I nab electricity off Rosy in 1540 AD

    Spoiler :


    Then I rip this off Mansa

    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :


    Rosy is teching rocketry for me, I will steal that off of him in a bit. Then it's happy fun time :D

    First to fusion! Technically

    Spoiler :


    I steal communism, rifling and mil tradition off Mansa and switch all my spying to Rosie.

    The tech screen at 1565 AD

    Spoiler :


    Should have done this a long time ago, but I guess I was goofing around :mischief:

    Spoiler :


    Got a little "project" goin in Thebes.

    Spoiler :



    And now I'm going to pretend like I'm Kossin and whip some calvary for my upcomming war :)

    Spoiler :



    Assembly

    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :


    Railroad

    Spoiler :


    Cavs take a back seat to factories right now

    Spoiler :


     
  2. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    755
    Location:
    Pangea
    Part 12: Dr. Strangeluv

    Spoiler :

    New civics...

    Spoiler :


    I steal artillery from Rosy. Pretty soon I steal Rocketry and then were off to the races!

    Meh, that lead didn't quite last did it? Stupid tech whores!

    Spoiler :


    Here it is.

    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :


    Tactical nukes are great, but the ICBM is my bread and butter.

    Spoiler :


    I'll take the one with the gold trim please.

    Spoiler :


    Willem has something I want...

    Spoiler :


    I think Willem will be the first to feel the full force of the mighty cav / nuke rush!

    Spoiler :


    2 turn ICBM's I told you this was a good spot.

    Spoiler :


    I'm a little dissapointed in Oranges buildup. He doesn't even have a lot of troops.

    Spoiler :


    I think I will DOW next turn.

    I promote to combat 1, for the extra strength

    Spoiler :


    I'm just getting started here.

    Spoiler :


    He looks like he knows whats comin :lol:

    Spoiler :


    Some heavy city defenses. I may have to "bombard" first.

    Spoiler :


    That's better.

    Spoiler :


    A couple of nukes will solve any problem.

    I demanded gold from Zara so he won't be helping anyone out. Even if he did, I have a few ICBM's with his name on it.

    I like these odds

    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :


    I decide to do a little cleaning at The Hague

    Spoiler :


    That's better.

    Spoiler :


    Willem has a whole mess of stuff on these tiles

    Spoiler :


    And now he doesn't :)

    Spoiler :




    Continued next post ( 30 image limit ).
     
  3. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Pangea
    Part 13: The Oranje turns to yellow

    Spoiler :


    Maasthactf gets the double ICBM treatment, and I am poised to take it next turn.

    Spoiler :


    I'm gonna love when I can do this at a 33% discount.

    Spoiler :


    Setup for the Hague in a few turns. We'll see how many troops Orange can bring to defend his cities :)

    Spoiler :


    Well I do give him points for trying.

    Spoiler :


    But...

    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :


    ICBMs are crucial to a good cav rush

    Spoiler :


    I relocate a few Tacticals so I have a better range. I send another ICBM at amsterdam to discourage any funny business.

    Spoiler :


    Say goodbye Hague defenders!

    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :


    Neat

    Spoiler :


    I take another whack at amsterdam and end the turn. I should probably get some tanks because cavs only move 1 tile through fallout.

    Spoiler :


    I keep my eye on Rosy just in case he gets laser and starts building the SDI. If he does I will sabatoge it with my spies.

    Willy must really be devastated, he doesn't even reinforce his capitol.

    Spoiler :


    Willy reinforces amsterdam with 3 infantry, and I double-nuke them, leaving no defenders again :)

    Spoiler :


    The kremlin is mine!

    Spoiler :


    The soviet discount :D

    Spoiler :


    I ICBM Deft once and take it.

    Spoiler :


    I got all I needed from Willy but he won't capitulate yet, so I will hurt him some more :)


    Ulbrects looking a little crowded.

    Spoiler :


    That's better

    Spoiler :


    I defy.

    Spoiler :


    Heh, nuked myself that time:crazyeye:

    Spoiler :


    I am poised to take 3 towns next turn. I think then Willy will surrender.

    Spoiler :


    I take a few more cities and Willy sees the light.

    Spoiler :


    I only nuked Willy 22 times. Rosie will get a lot more heheh.

    Spoiler :


     
  4. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Pangea
    Part 14: Proliferation

    Spoiler :

    I'm like a kid in a candy store.

    Spoiler :


    Oranges land isn't what it used to be.

    Spoiler :


    Rosy won't make it to laser, so I go ahead and use my spy points to steal a bunch of tech from him. Here is the tech race at 1735

    Spoiler :


    Rosy has 8 nukes that I can see. 4 ICBM and 4 tactical. I don't care about the tactical its the ICBM that worry me.

    Spoiler :


    With 9 cities I will need 36 nukes. 4 nukes a city to totally incapacitate Rosy.

    Spoiler :


    He's got a lot of neat stuff too

    Spoiler :


    It takes me a few turns to build enough nukes to decimate rosy.

    My arsenal

    Spoiler :


    Rosys arsenal, or at least what I can see of it. He probably has some more tac nukes on ships.

    Spoiler :


    I gift one tac nuke to Mansa because I was reading in another thread that the AI might choose to nuke someone else if they have a nuke in their city... or something like that :crazyeye: We'll see.

    Spoiler :


    I demand tributes from both Zara and SB so they won't declare. Not that it really matters.

    Spoiler :


    I declare as rosy techs laser. I guarantee won't have the production left to build the SDI after I get done with him.

    Spoiler :


    He who nukes first, nukes best. I literally double, triple or quadruple nuke every square of rosies territory. 31 nukes total.

    Spoiler :


    He is reduced to just a few land units

    Spoiler :


    I send in the calvary to take his cities

    Spoiler :



    Ouch!

    Spoiler :


    O well, he won't be getting any more.

    Taking cities with cavs now.

    Spoiler :


    With no defenders Rosies towns fall like dominoes to my cav rush.

    Spoiler :


    Rosy launches a feeble counterattack. I lose a few cavs :(

    Spoiler :


    Wow, what a city!

    Spoiler :


    Talk about wonder-whoring. I will reduce Rosy to 1 city and then capitulate him.

    Rosy tries to use the UN vote to stop me, but I just defy.

    I hate it when I can't nuke a city. Looks like Mansa will get this one

    Spoiler :


    Mansa takes Atlanta, so I demand 300 gold from him to compensate.

    Then I capitulate Rosy

    Spoiler :


     
  5. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    Part 15: The Finish

    Spoiler :

    I switch back to Universal Suffrage and go shopping!

    Spoiler :


    Of course we all know Zara is next. I will just nuke him to oblivion first. Then I'll build a navy and take his cities when I'm good and ready while he tries to rebuild.

    Zara has only 8 cities. So that means just 32 ICBMS. 5 turns should get me that many. I can't declare on him for a few turns anyway.

    I switch to Police state for the +25% production to nukes. In a few turns I will switch back to US to buy them.

    At 1830 make the switch and rushbuy 11 nukes. Next turn should be fun. I can't scout Zaras territory so I would be able to view the full impact until later.

    Spoiler :


    38 ICBM's should do it.

    Spoiler :


    I triple / quadruple nuke everything. Then I send a few more nukes in just to scout and make sure I got it all. I even nuked the workers.

    Spoiler :


    I still have a few nukes left, in case SB want's to join in.

    Now I just sit back and watch Zaras score plummet while I start sending the invasion forces.

    Spoiler :


    Heh, Zara whips a marine

    Spoiler :


    Turns out Zara is ready to give in, I didn't even have to take any towns. He didn't launch any nukes either, which is good.

    Spoiler :


    Well that's pretty much the game. SB is not even a threat.

    Spoiler :


    Still haven't reached the Dom limit for some reason. I just declare on SB, he doesn't have nukes and this will keep my vassals from trading with him.

    SB launches a counterattack.

    Spoiler :


    And I simply nuke it out of existance.

    Spoiler :


    Just for the hell of it I go for the UN victory.

    Spoiler :


    And there it is.

    Spoiler :


    I played a little farther and SB won't give in without an invasion, and I don't feel like going through the 50 more turns it would take for me to do that, so that's a game.

    1850 AD. Score 107406, Augustus Caesar.



    Here is the last save I have in case anyone wants to take a look. I played pretty sloppy later on because of laziness :lol:

    View attachment AZ shadow game AD-1860.CivBeyondSwordSave
     
  6. ColossusXXIII

    ColossusXXIII Warlord

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    @ Absolute

    Nice W... good use of espionage...
     
  7. Pinďa

    Pinďa Chieftain

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    AbsoluteZero, nice game.

    What happens if your spy fails to steal a Tech? Do you lose those espionage points?
     
  8. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    No you just lose the spy, so build plenty of spys.
     
  9. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Location:
    Canada
    The next turns:

    Right now I have queued some Universities to start on Oxford University in the capital so that I can multiply all that gold by the good multipliers.

    Since I have Forges and OR, each population is worth 45 hammers, therefore 4 pops is 180 hammers... I micromanaged 5 cities to get at least 20 hammers in a university.

    I can "borrow" the Stone from Mansa so OU will be online relatively quickly.

    The alternative is to beeline Rifling right away.

    If I do this instead, I will eat through all of my gold supplies and will have no gold for upgrading Cuirassiers to Cavalry.

    This means I might run into some more Grenadiers from Roosevelt but either way, I believe Oxford is the right choice now... I will require Cavalry if Roosevelt grabs Military Science so I might as well place myself in a better position... and if he doesn't grab it, then Cuirassiers will be enough to capitulate him at which point I will move on WvO who does have Grenadiers.

    Mansa will be directed to techs I need which will increase my teching considerably as I will have an exclusive trader (soon at war with Roose and I can ask Mansa to stop trading with WvO... the others are too backwards and I intend to leave them that way).

    One thing I can do to break Roosevelt's back: declare war before I am ready to attack him.
    Sounds weird? Actually, this would make him move his troops inside Mansa's territory, where he CANNOT upgrade them should he get Military Science soon, allowing me to kill them easily and face less advanced troops later on.

    I'll probably play until the capitulation of Roosevelt next.

    Finally, about failure gold: with handy Marble, I can still get some failure gold (2:1) from Hermitage (250% multipliers vs 125% multipliers from building wealth: Forge+OR+Marble vs Forge). Only difference is that the payoff is delayed until the actual completion of the National Wonder.

    I can do the same with Moai once I get Mansa's Stone.
     
  10. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Location:
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    Turn 159 - Turn 171

    What started out as a very efficient and quick going war turned out to a big botch, largely courtesy of the RNG. Sure, I won some 40% odd battles but I lost about 10 70%+ attacks trying to attack two cities in the same turn. That was pretty frustrating and extended the length of the war by 4 or 5 turns. Regardless, Roosevelt is in my lap now. Despite having veteran troops, the presence of Chitchen Itza made taking each city slightly harder than from Mansa.

    Really not too proud of this segment... the RNG screwed me while I was trying to be too greedy by spreading my forces too much.

    Turn 160
    Spoiler :

    Time to whip the universities.



    I had forgotten to select a 5th city for a University. Good thing I checked my F1 screen before hitting enter!



    I made this trade on turn 161, despite what the screenshot says. I didn't need the stone right away and I would waste some food this way.


    Meanwhile, I've sent 4 Cuirassiers to map out Roosevelt's cities. He is very weak!


    Troops are sent to the borders of America.


    Turn 161
    Spoiler :

    The first city to come out of revolt from Mansa, it's suffering heavily from unhappy faces. To solve this, I hard-whip a Forge at a 50% penalty because no hammers are invested in the build.


    However, I do not let the city complete the Forge, but rather assign it to Culture. I want to work the Fish ASAP and to grow back the city on the 2F3C coastal tiles.


    Oxford due in 3...


    All I could spot from Roosevelt that looks threatening.



    Turn 162
    Spoiler :

    A shot from Mansa's city that I whipped last turn. It lost 1 turn of Forge... that's 25%*1 = 0 hammers lost... but gains a bunch of food.


    I've finished mapping out Roosevelt's territory. Notice how his cities are spaced away about 4 tiles each. This is great for me because he can't reinforce any city directly.


    It's time to declare war!


    I immediately snipe a weak city:


    Try to pick off Pikes outside cities when you're going up with a mounted attack.


    I move the main stack in a fork attack between Philadelphia and Atlanta.


    Turn 163
    Spoiler :

    2 pretty good cities fall easily again. Atlanta contains the MoM so I will get even better golden ages now!




    Notice Roosevelt's stack next to Philadelphia. As I said before, most cities are 4 tiles apart, just out of range from reinforcements. I will clean up his stack and from then he would stick to his cities pretty much.


    Turn 164
    Spoiler :

    Oxford University is completed, I turn on the research slider.



    Turn 165
    Spoiler :

    I move some troops, another fork attack here.


    And another stack in the north.



    Turn 167
    Spoiler :

    What happened to turn 166?

    MISERABLE FAILURE!!!

    I lost over half of my units at ~70% odds most of the time, failing to do any harm to either San Francisco and New York >.<

    It took 2 bloody turns to take this weakly defended city despite I had 3:2 numbers.



    Turn 168
    Spoiler :

    New York took 3 turns... gosh... feels like I'm moving with siege units.



    Turn 171
    Spoiler :

    I have to heal up but Washington falls more easily.



    This is all Roosevelt would give up for Capitulation... a pity I lost so many units.


    Before playing, I spoke of gold failure from National Wonders... like here: 1 turn from completion, I take it off the queue and will start it in another city.


    I go into Representation and Theology... I pretty much only require units from now on to win the game.


    Calling the dogs of war off:



    Next up is Willem. I am going to work my way into Physics to get some Airship support since Grenadiers do pretty well against Cavalry. The most experienced Cuirassiers will be upgraded to Cavalry but the rest isn't quite necessary.

    Stupid Mansa has been trading with Zara (gifting him a bunch of techs for very little in return) which made him do a comeback. Guess I'll leave him for last (or if I even need to kill him)... I'll have much better units by then regardless.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    @kossin

    I am confused, what's your goal of victory? Seems like domination, but your redundant tech path tells a different story. The hammer cost of setting up OU could pump out more than 10 Cuirs, not counting the delay of Rifling, which could also save you some loss if there were cavs to deal with the toughest defenders. Why bothering of Grens, with the dominant number of cavs, even Riflemans do not have chance to stand.:rolleyes:
     
  12. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    Pretty impressive Kossin. When you attacked Rosy he had rifles in my game. Not sure what held him back in yours. Still I am surprised at the taking of so many cities with just mounted and nothing else. Guess I'll have to take a better look at Cuirs, I never actually use them.
     
  13. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    The problem is Willem, who already has Grenadiers and is about to get Machine Guns. I could simply hit him with Cavalry and lose 10 Cavalry per Machine Gun but I like to keep teching... the builder inside me :D

    Anyway, I just finished the game, 1525AD Domination. Could have been much faster but I was really lazy and just wanted to finish by taking less RL time.

    I'll do 3 updates to wrap up the report, one up to the WvO war, the WvO war and the overseas war.
     
  14. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    If you beeline Rifling without any delay and then whip and upgrade to get as many cavalries as possible, I think there's little problem to DOW William ~1150AD with over 40 mounted units, will he has Machine guns at that time? On the other hand, Machine gun is not much stronger than rifleman, generally 2 flankingII cavalries will reduce it's hp to a killable point and he won't have time to have a sizable number of defenders in such a short time.

    I'm more willing to see a simple and neat shot at the final goal than redundant distraction. 1300AD Domination should be doable from your 1000AD save.
     
  15. ColossusXXIII

    ColossusXXIII Warlord

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    sorry mistake
     
  16. Yoshi1

    Yoshi1 Warlord

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    Part of that is Espionage, revolting a city is just a pure nonsense game concept.
    As if the military could be disturbed in a real war situation and loose their defense ^^
    Wait, the scared but angry guys want their own troops to loose, after all it makes sense :goodjob:
    Also the fork attacks, and random AI stupidity.

    Ya know, the whole concept makes no sense basically, in reality you would always need some form of siege (not in modern times ofc, but medieval or 19th). Or how do your horses plan to ride into a castle? ................
     
  17. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    No I think he took washington without revolting any cities. At least he didn't mention he did. He revolted 1 mansa city as i recall.
     
  18. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Definitely true. Guess I'm just not enough of a fast finisher and like to see the bright numbers next to the :beakers: sign ;)

    @all
    No update today, sorry - will try to get around to it tomorrow.

    @Yoshi/AZ
    The only spy revolt I did was for the first Mansa city. Cuirassiers ignore Walls and Castles so you mostly get 40/60% culture defense at most, sometimes 85% due to Chitchen Itza like Washington.
     
  19. Yoshi1

    Yoshi1 Warlord

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    Yea i forgot that they ignore castles too, considering that i wonder if a siege war is ever worth it.
    The difference between moving 1 or 2 tiles per turn is so huge, and your assault on poor Roosi is a great example of what fork attacks can do.

    I really think it is not a good concept that Castles get ignored so early, if that wouldn't be the case the whole engineering tech-line would be more interesting and not just a reason why the AI fails so often :)
     
  20. ColossusXXIII

    ColossusXXIII Warlord

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    @yoshi

    Good point!
     

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