Let's play Deity: Hatshepsut

[kossin]

One question: Why are your cities do overlapping? Does settling an extra few tiles away cost a lot in Deity?

I want my cities to have access to has much food as possible. This often means borrowing food from another city while that city is busy with mines... the land isn't so filled with food that I can give each city a full BFC unfortunately. A 2-pop whip from 6 to 4 population is still worth as much hammers as a 2-pop whip from 12 to 10 population... however The 4-6 grows back much faster. A lot of these cities will be whipped to hell when war comes.

 

[lymond]

Mansa is the natural target here for many reasons. (Why?)

Because he's a pushover and tech crack whore, so you can get some nice techs when you make peace

 

[Alamankarazieff]

That's fascinating, thank you so much, but...

There's something I just don't get ! When I try this kind of expansion, my economy collapse and suffers a lot. Your Bpt keep on growing, and you never seem to take a hit when you settle a new city ?
How do you fuel your expansion ? Fail gold is enough ? Aim for the commerce tiles ? Keep your cities close ? All of that ?
For me the most striking moment is that at turn 59 you're at 23g = 23 bpt (assuming an equivalency since you don't have libraries or specialists). Which is roughly where I find myself at that moment of the game if I found my 3rd city.
But then you're at 29+7= 36 (and libraries to kick that actually) by turn 75 after settling 2 more cities !
And after the academy you're just climbing hard, leaving me to howl in awe and frustration (though quietly since my wife is asleep on the couch.)
How ?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

That's fascinating, thank you so much, but...

There's something I just don't get ! When I try this kind of expansion, my economy collapse and suffers a lot. Your Bpt keep on growing, and you never seem to take a hit when you settle a new city ?
How do you fuel your expansion ? Fail gold is enough ? Aim for the commerce tiles ? Keep your cities close ? All of that ?
For me the most striking moment is that at turn 59 you're at 23g = 23 bpt (assuming an equivalency since you don't have libraries or specialists). Which is roughly where I find myself at that moment of the game if I found my 3rd city.
But then you're at 29+7= 36 (and libraries to kick that actually) by turn 75 after settling 2 more cities !
And after the academy you're just climbing hard, leaving me to howl in awe and frustration (though quietly since my wife is asleep on the couch.)
How ?

Don't forget he has trade routes with everyone making the commerce in each city around 3 from trade routes alone. He set those up early and that mostly offsets the maintenance costs for a while.

Also he has 2 gem mines so that makes a big difference.

 

[kossin]

Because he's a pushover and tech crack whore, so you can get some nice techs when you make peace

Surely, you can do better than this

That's fascinating, thank you so much, but...

Warning: image heavy.

There's something I just don't get ! When I try this kind of expansion, my economy collapse and suffers a lot. Your Bpt keep on growing, and you never seem to take a hit when you settle a new city ?
How do you fuel your expansion ? Fail gold is enough ? Aim for the commerce tiles ? Keep your cities close ? All of that ?
For me the most striking moment is that at turn 59 you're at 23g = 23 bpt (assuming an equivalency since you don't have libraries or specialists). Which is roughly where I find myself at that moment of the game if I found my 3rd city.
But then you're at 29+7= 36 (and libraries to kick that actually) by turn 75 after settling 2 more cities !
And after the academy you're just climbing hard, leaving me to howl in awe and frustration (though quietly since my wife is asleep on the couch.)
How ?

Where to begin...

First of all, keep in mind I have an early gems in the capital (that's +6 commerce) and another nearby. This accounts for 13 commerce... so about 10~11 more than you'd have without such a start.

Early game, bpt = commerce at 100% research.
Therefore, each city you settle adds commerce... adds to your bpt.

But commerce =/= gpt at 100% gold. Commerce = gpt - expenses (see F2 screen)

Now you're taking turn 59 as an example.
Here are some F2 screenshots of said turn as well as city screnshots. I have included the auto-save as well for convenience. The turn 75 one is already in the thread.

Spoiler :

Naturally, expenses will climb pretty fast on Deity so you have to find out the little tricks to maximize on commerce.
Any high-commerce tile is usually a priority (gems, gold, silver).
Try to settle and improve rivers... these are fantastic. Use binary research as I showed... you never know when you're losing 1 commerce to rounding.
Never disregard trade routes. As you can see, they amount for 6 of my total 31 commerce.
Settle so that your cities can be connected by rivers or get some roads going before the city is settled... I've shown some good examples for city #2 and #3.
Get Writing early and connect your network to the AI! This automatically means 1 commerce per city! It's huge early on!
Avoid unit upkeep when you can (too many units or too many units outside your cultural borders). Those 1, 2, 3 gold do add up pretty fast. As I said early on, when you're spending 5% of your GNP on unit upkeep early on or to roundoff, it hurts pretty bad.

If your capital is very high on food, you can consider cottaging it up a bit. Aim for 6+ food surplus once it is working all of its hills to keep it growing fast.
Another good option is to cottage up city #2 and let the capital focus on production instead.
Wonders like the Great Lighthouse are the best thing that can happen to you if you have a lot of coast to settle. You will see a net profit from the first 10~11 cities you settle!

For turn 75: the other gems enters the equation.
Each city settled gets:
1 commerce from city tile
2 commerce from foreign trade route
0~1 commerce from first tile worked

Settling of cities #4, before and after. (no second gems)

Spoiler :

Expenses go up 3 gpt, but the city contributes 4 commerce (I wanted the granary more than the gems commerce, otherwise it would contribute 10 commerce).


Settling of cities #5, before and after. (no second gems)

Spoiler :

Expenses go up 6 but adds 4 commerce. So at this point it stops being a net surplus right away... however, once that city grows a few population points (fish, silk, coast), it becomes a net positive.

For turn 75, the second gems is worked so add in 7 commerce just for that.

Later on, the Academy kicks in. 50% bonus to research from the total commerce... that's pretty big! (17 bpt, almost 500 gold saved up from binary research)

Spoiler :

And after that... there's the Currency bonus (adds 1/2 commerce times the number of cities you have). In this case it only added 7 commerce because I don't have a connection to Willem's network... I need Sailing (which I researched this same turn) which added another 7 commerce.

Spoiler :

Furthermore, this opens up the ability to build wealth (hammers/turn = gpt) and to trade excess resources to the AI for gpt (trade away your metals! if the AI has copper but no Iron, why should you care to give him Iron?). I try to avoid to trade horses however, they're a pain to deal with later in a war... I prefer to limit the AI movement points.

Bureaucracy bonus (21 commerce... almost 37 bpt)

Spoiler :

Each city settled after #4 hits a bit on the gpt initially but bpt of course keeps increasing (closer is better but don't avoid far sites: keep blocking the AI if you can). They will at some point overcome their cost however.

The morale of the story: the earlier you settle, the better the city can contribute.
However! If you settle too early (before Pottery/Writing), your gpt will drop and you won't be able to keep up in tech.
There is a second threshold and that is Currency/CoL. Look for Rusten's thread "Schooling the AI" or something like that in this subforum, he has a very good explanation over there.

If you're looking for something to build before Writing/Pottery... build more workers. It makes a big difference to have 2 workers already present at a new city site compared to waiting for the first worker to get there.

The strength of the approach I took is you have 1 massive research city in the capital (it contributes well over 50% of the total research) and a bunch of satellite cities that are jack-of-all-trades that you can do whatever you need them to do. Don't become hooked up on cottage spamming, it's just not as efficient before Democracy (and even then, questionable).
Specialize cities and take advantage of the many opportunities to gain early commerce.

I hope this covers some of your questions. Remember this is a rather generous starting area though so not all games can achieve this level of bpt/commerce early on. Some are even better though

 

[lymond]

Okay, second guess on Mansa....he's the the Hindu prophet and built the AP

Great explanation above, Kos. Although I learned it from you some time ago, can't express enough the importance of getting those trade routes hooked up quickly, especially with the AI after Writing. It's really a game changer that often gets lost on less experienced players. And I guess it's also important to note that the longer you don't have those trade routes/the longer the AI has already had that extra commerce as they usually get them up fairly quickly - sometimes instantly.

 

[bobbyboy29]

For me, attacking Mansa first is usually a priority whenever I can, his willingness to trade techs changes the face of any game. I find that more often than not, if you leave him alone and focus your efforts elsewhere, you will regret it as when your research lags due to warring, he'll trade the other AI's way ahead and make taking him and them down a real pain. On the other hand, attacking him is surprisingly easy. He may always be very advanced, but I find that when you say, go for a mounted war post lib, he rarely has anything better than longbows, and even if he has more advanced units he rarely has enough units to put up more than a whimper. This is because he focuses so heavily on economic techs, often whilst I've been taking his longbow defended cities, I'll find he has researched physics or something of the like. Then as a kicker, if you decide to vassalize him, you can get a whole bunch of techs off him as a result, but I rarely do this, because he usually ends up on trading them to the AIs. I've had a vassaled, 1 city mansa keep up in techs for a long time simply by being the most willing to broker them around.

 

[kossin]

Much better!

However, the simplest answer here is that Mansa has the best land available and then Roosevelt

Expect next update tommorow.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I've been wanting to shadow Kossin's game here for a while because I really think he missed the boat settling where he did. Also I question the sanity of trying to out-tech Mansa on deity without something slowing him down ( like a war ).

My thoughts are that the best way to play this particular situation would be to steal Mansa's tech via spying and then around the medieval era crush him with his own technology. Of course this is just theory, but we know we have an amazing HE site to start off with, and with sharing a religion + trade routes + a stationary spy you can get some amazing discounts on stealing tech. Far more efficient then using the same commerce points to research it yourself. Combine that with the fact that I think getting the GW is entirely possible on this map, we could infiltrate his city with a great spy for even more stealing.

So I'm going to start with Kossin's 4000 bc save and see if I can wipe Mansa out before he becomes an even bigger pain then he usually is.

Part 1

Spoiler :

First I settled that juicy hill spot and start teching mining. Why mining? Well I want to make it to masonry to build the great wall, plus I have 2 river hills I can build mines on.

Spoiler :

I meet Mansa Mansa. I hate Hate HATE MM on diety, his tech whoring has screwed many of my lib races. If I can I bribe a warmonger or two against MM to slow him down, unfortunately it will be up to me to take him out this time.

Spoiler :

I put all my spy points in MM because I want to see what he's researching.

Spoiler :

Mining done, I start on masonry. If I start working on the Great wall immediately I should have almost 100% chance of getting it.

Spoiler :

Worker is done, I send him to farm the rice and build a warrior. I want to grow the city to size 4 at least to build the great wall

Spoiler :

Meet Willem. That's makes 2 tech whores in the game!! At least they are different religions.

Spoiler :

At this point my worker has finished the farm and I finish building a warrior and teching masonry. I start building the great wall and move my worker to build a mine on one of the river hills. Farming the FP isn't worth it at this point, It takes 7 turns and I would just grow into unhappiness too quickly. With the culture from great wall I should grab the marble before anyone else can take it. I go bronze working because I plan to catch up on land settlement by chopping out settlers. I won't have to worry about barbs with the GW and my warriors should be able to soak up a few attacks until then.

Spoiler :

Here's my city after the mine is built. I will probably chop the last of the GW.

Spoiler :

Everything on schedule. On deity if you are any later then this you will probably miss the GW.

Spoiler :

I get BW and start chopping another river hill while I research AH.

Spoiler :

I wondered whether to whip the wall at this point, if I had done that I would start chopping another forest instead of building a mine. However I am pretty confident that I have the GW in the bag and no AI is going to beat me ( famous last words ). If I didn't beeline it then it might be more of a concern.

Spoiler :

I got the GW at turn 40 which isn't too bad. In 49 turns I will get a GSpy. Meanwhile I let my pop grow to 5 while I build a warrior, then I will build a settler.

Spoiler :

Not bad production eh?

Spoiler :

I start chopping another forest to speed up the settler just a bit. I'm researching writing at this point. After that I will probably go aesthetics or alphabet.

Spoiler :

I'm chopping here because I will be settling here, so I might as well.

Spoiler :

The chop went to a worker, which speeds him up by 1 turn, YAY! I will improve the pig first because it gives +1 commerce, where the corn does not.

Spoiler :

The new town. Instant trade route hookup because of the river. Now the question of what to build. Baracks is probably too early, warrior is probably a waste. Worker is probably the best bet really. I convert to hinduism for the +1 to happy cap. Since both my neighbors are not huge warmongers or huge religious fanatics I think this is fairly safe.

Spoiler :

The second worker goes to chop another forest. At this point I would prefer to switch to a grass hill mine since I can grow a bit more now, so clearing this one is a good idea. I might as well finish off that warrior. If I have time I might make a city just to grab the ivory / wine at some point but I won't go out of my way for it. My priority is to settle the best land first.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Mansa is just finishing up monarchy, so I put my slider to 0% to wait and see what he goes for next ( thanks to Kossin for that tip ). In the meantime I will develop the corn instead of the horses / gems because I want food to whip a library in memphis. I build my next settler and I send my warrior to see if I have a chance to grab the ivory / wine or not. Looks like Willem will settle one side and I will be sandwinched between him and Mansa, and I'm not sure if I want to be in that position quite frankly, especially if I'm going to be in hinduism mode.

I switched out of hinduism so I could get Willem to open borders. I will switch back when I really need the +1 happiness. I also open borders with Rosy. I like how everyone has different religions. This should make things a bit easier.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Naa, I got better places to put my third town.

Spoiler :

No rest for the wicked, After the settler my capitol builds another worker. I need someone to setup trade routes with mansa and willem soon. My next city will be a high commerce city using both gem mines ( eventually ) where I will place an academy and eventually oxford. It will be able to borrow the pigs to grow and also have wheat which can later be irrigated when I reach CS.

Spoiler :

Mansa goes for COL. He's going to found every damn religion for christs sake Spamming all those missionaries ought to keep him from building that many troops however. It's probably safe so I go for aesthetics.

I have one city working the corn and one working the pig. They will both grow to size 2 in 4 turns. In the meantime I move a worker on the gems to mine it for heliopolis. When mephis grows to size 2 I will switch it to working both the corn and pig so I can grow enough to whip a library. The reason for this is I want to build points toward a great scientist asap.

I also send a worker to build a road toward mansa for trade routes.

Spoiler :

I finish building another worker and send him to help with the gems cities. Then I start building yet another settler who I will settle above the capitol. Yes I know full well that I don't have iron working and there is a lot of jungle, however, I want to make sure Mansa doesn't settle up that way. Better safe then sorry.

Spoiler :

My cities grow to size 2 and theres a new config now.

Memphis works both the food for the fastest possible growth.

Spoiler :

Helio works the horses + gem mine for commerce + production.

Spoiler :

Helio pops its borders and I double up my workers to build the second gem mine while I take another to improve the wheat. Mansa goes after theology, holy damn!

Spoiler :

The gem mine is done and I switch Helio to working both gems. In a bit I will have Memphis use the horses when it grows to 3. The trick with all of this juggling is to never have a city working unimproved tiles. Not always possible but it's something to shoot for.

Spoiler :

Continued in next post.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Part 2

Spoiler :

Memphis gets to size 3 and I set it to work the horses. 2 more turns and I got a library. I also complete the road to Mansa so all the trade routes in my cities are now 2 commerce instead of 1. I also build a road on the gem mine and move another worker to build a quarry on the marble.

Spoiler :

Willem asks me to cancel deals with Mansa. I refuse of course, way to early for that sort of thing and wisely I avoided settling right in between the two of them.

Spoiler :

Gems are hooked up so +1 happiness. Settler is done in capital and I start building yet another worker. I'd like to point out the strength of simply producing workers / settlers with a high hammer capitol like this, not to mention troops.

Check it out man!

Spoiler :

I whip a library in memphis for 2 overflow at the cost of 1 pop. I don't even bother with chariots yet because I have the GW. I'm too lazy to do the math but I'm sure I am actually ahead after investing all those hammers into the GW as opposed to most games where I would have to build lots of barb defense early.

Memphis starts building a warrior for policing Helio while it grows to size 4 again. Once it is size 4 I will assign 2 scientists and have it working a flood plain or a mine I will build on the river hill. Then I will let Helio use the corn to grow. In the meantime I move a worker down to finally farm that flood plain for thebes.

Spoiler :

Mansa demands I convert. Sure, why not?

Spoiler :

Did a lot of switching around. Switched Helio to work ground gems + corn.

Spoiler :

Switched Memphis to working pigs + hilled gems + 2 scientists.

Spoiler :

Founded Elephantine and borrowed the rice from Thebes.

Spoiler :

And thebes is still building a worker with this configuration

Spoiler :

I am now 17 turns to generating a great scientist and 18 turns to generating a great spy. It will probably be more efficient to have the great spy show up first, because the GPP from the great wall is only 2 and I'm not sure how long I'd have to wait if the scientist showed up first. I definitely want a great spy to steal loads of tech from Mansa when the time is right.

Memphis finishes the warrior and I start building a baracks. Thebes finishes the worker who I send to hurry the flood plain, then I start building my 5th settler.

Spoiler :

Turn 73

I finish Aesthetics and Rosie finishes alpha. I notice he is pleased, which means I can probably beg fishing off him. If I can do so it would save me a few turns and my next site has fish.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Cha-Ching!

Spoiler :

At this point I decide to put a few turns into alpha and hope I can trade aesthetics for alpha to rosy and then trade alpha to mansa and willem. Even if rosie trades alpha to mansa I can at least trade it to WVO.

Spoiler :

Turn 74

New city configs based on recent growth:

Helio

Spoiler :

Memphis, back to growth again. I intend to grow memphis to size 6 because I will try to build TGL in this city.

Spoiler :

Turn 75

Farming another flood plain in expectation of being able to work it. Going to road that next gem mine and try and trade it for something.

Spoiler :

Turn 76

Rosie trades mansa alpha, grrrrr! Should have expected it I guess.

Spoiler :

First things first, I beg mysticism off of mansa which he agrees to.

Spoiler :

Then I put my slider down to 0% because they cannot trade me poly yet. So I will wait 1 turn to do the aesthetics for alpha trade. I don't want the whore Mansa trading Rosie aesthetics while I wait to trade for poly. Also I don't know who will trade it and who won't.

Spoiler :

Turn 77

Here are the trades this turn

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I switch to my research to 100% in literature and get ready for some chops for TGL.

Spoiler :

Turn 78

More of the same. I will try to get lit, trade lit to mansa for monotheism, and then switch to hindu + OR and chop TGL all at once. We'll see if it works.

Turn 79

Meh, I don't think so MM

Spoiler :

Thebes builds another settler and build research so I can get lit in 3 turns. I send the settler to the fish site. Mansa techs calender which is perfect

Spoiler :

Turn 80

I had to rearrange a little because my GPP bar was getting to far in Memphis and with TGL it will be even more so I have to slow it down so I can pop the GSpy first in Thebes. I have 3 workers pre-chopping.

Turn 81

2 turns to lit. My workers are done with prechop so I will just have them start building a road next turn.

Turn 82

Memphis hits 6 pop and gets 1 unhappy. I trade WVO gems for some wine and problem is solved.

Spoiler :

Helio grew 1 pop and was working an unimproved tile, so I switched it to a scientist.

Spoiler :

Turn 83

I whip a library in elephantine for 1 pop and start building a cottage near Helio. Not an ideal spot for a cottage but this will probably be my Oxford city so what-the-hay. I chose this city for oxford because it has both high commerce tiles and it has coast access, which gives huge commerce with trade routes.

Spoiler :

Turn 84

Awesome, just.... awesome.

Spoiler :

WVO will trade me math, and Mansa will trade me Mono. The combo will get me TGL at lightning speed.

Continued in next post..

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Part 3

Spoiler :

I do dis:

Spoiler :

Then this:

Spoiler :

I switch to Hindu and OR and after borrowing a few tiles from my cap here is probably one of the fastest TGL builds ever!

Spoiler :

And with 3 chops.. 5 turns. Lets see Mansa beat THAT!

Spoiler :

At this point I put my slider down to 0% to wait and see if Mansa goes for music. If he does I will probably go drama. Otherwise I will definitely go music for the free GA.

And at this point I've decided to chop the parthenon in my cap and see if I can nab it. If not the fail gold will be sweet.

Spoiler :

Finally, Elephantine is done with the library and since judiasm was spread to this city I think I will build a missionary and spread it to Helio so I can build an extra monastery there for the 10% research. In fact it would be nice if Mansa spread more of his many religions to my territory so I could build all the monasteries in the game.

Spoiler :

I also start to notice Willy the Orange sending troops up to capture that barb city. If he tries to send anymore I will close borders to ensure he can't overcome the defenders.

Turn 85

Mansa techs construction at a speed so unbelievable its disgusting! I go music and pray...

Spoiler :

Turn 86

I make the following trade because I can trade Iron + Lit + Mono to WVO for monarchy, or so I hope.

Spoiler :

Turn 87

BINGO!

Spoiler :

Turn 88

In Helio the cottage is done and I choose to start working it. Why? Well first off this is not my GPP town, that will be Thebes. Secondly, the food will grow it so I can work more tiles or run more specialists. Third the cottage will eventually develop into +4 research instead of +3 from the scientist.

Spoiler :

I settled a new city, Alexandria and I'm building a workboat which will be whipped when the borders pop. At this point I have 5 towns and only 5 workers, but through frugal management I have not worked many unimproved tiles. Still I will need a lot more workers soon, preferably after I build the parthenon.

Spoiler :

Turn 89

Due to chops I'm almost halfway done with the Parthenon. Will I make it, or won't I? Should I WANT to make it? All very good questions. The fail gold might actually be better then the +50% GPP. Hmm...

Spoiler :

To be continued....

Here is my save so far: View attachment AZ shadow game BC-0725.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[vranasm]

@AZ

absolutely marvelous report... I really liked your report and game

Spoiler :

I saw you built a lot barracks, but you have poly and aesth, you could probably try for fail fold from ToA and maybe Shwadegon Paya (sp?)?
Or the intent is that the 2 cities will whip units too?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

@AZ

absolutely marvelous report... I really liked your report and game

Spoiler :

I saw you built a lot barracks, but you have poly and aesth, you could probably try for fail fold from ToA and maybe Shwadegon Paya (sp?)?
Or the intent is that the 2 cities will whip units too?

Yes eventually all cities will be building / whipping units so I want barracks in all of them by then. With so many choices you have to prioritize what you think will be the most efficient in the long run, and my guess is barracks is better then fail gold.

 

[vranasm]

@AZ

have a question about situation in Alexandria.

Spoiler :

I usually go for the whip of workboat in coastal cities, but I accidentely tried to click a bit around in screen and you are working there grassland without improvements 2F.

you have available PH with 3H and 1F2H1C silk.

with working grassland you will grow in 10T and whip WB.
You can work PH for self build in 6T but no food and commerce
or you can build WB on silk with WB in 7T that's quicker then 10T of whip, slower then PH, but you get for 7T 1C and 1F surplus.

I admit i usually don't do such microing (max when i settle the city for first build and then completely forget about it :-D, that's probably why i sometimes struggle on emperor), but would like to hear your input on this.

 

[kossin]

I've played up to 1000AD (one more turn syndrome ) and didn't take that many screenshots.

To me it's clear that the game is in the bag by 1AD (and even more so by 1000AD) but I will keep posting the short updates and will dedicate one of them to the war with Mansa, which went very well with tech superiority

It might take some time as I will need to revisit my autosaves to take screenshots.

 

[Yoshi1]

wish you would have had Ragnar or Genghis Kahn as neighbour Kossin, would have made for a more interesting middle/endgame
It's true, if Mansa is your neighbor, a player with your exceptional skills will always win.
Still a lot of things that newer players can learn from this thread thou

 

[kossin]

^^
Oh well, there have been a lot of GG's born in faraway lands and I intend to finish via Domination/Conquest so there should be plenty of action to come (although not as heated ).

 

[kossin]

Turn 115 - Turn 130

Unfortunately, my dreams of grabbing a late MoM vanished the next turn.

Spoiler :

Still...

Subsequent turns were pretty boring... since I was planning a Golden Age, I didn't whip any cities and kept growing them. Workers spread irrigation and that's pretty much all that happened.

Before Roosevelt decided to trade away Philosophy to MM, I did the following trades:

Spoiler :

Once my 2 merchant cities got to their happy cap, it was time to launch the Golden Age and revolt.

Spoiler :

Specialist assignment...

Spoiler :

This will be the second GM.

and

Spoiler :

Aiming for the first GM... so more specialists.

Thebes stayed on TGL and an occasional Engineer if I recall correctly. That was enough to bring it close but not get the first great person.

Tech was Paper>Philo>Machinery(partial+trade)>Education

I bulb Education at the very last moment.

Spoiler :

You can do the calculations if you want to avoid losing beakers. Look at the number of beakers contributed by the GS. Look at how many cities are close to growing. Add 6*growing cities to your base bulb.

Now subtract that from the total cost of Education.

If you current beakers in Education+1.2*beaker output is greater than the line above, bulb immediately. Otherwise, wait next turn!

More failure gold. Notice I am getting a granary and will finally be able to grow the resource city.

Spoiler :

Re-adjusting specialists... getting the first GM next turn.

Spoiler :

Next turn... I do sacrifice 1 population in exchange for the Great Merchant.

Spoiler :

Ending the round with 2 more trades... since Mansa has acquired Paper.

Spoiler :

What I wanted to do...

Spoiler :

Trade Education to Roosevelt for Nationalism and then get Military Tradition as freebie from Liberalism. Thus trading him Education worked well with this goal.

Who else is in the game...?

Spoiler :

Obviously, they have been at war since close to 4000BC

 

[AbsoluteZero]

@AZ

have a question about situation in Alexandria.

Spoiler :

I usually go for the whip of workboat in coastal cities, but I accidentely tried to click a bit around in screen and you are working there grassland without improvements 2F.

you have available PH with 3H and 1F2H1C silk.

with working grassland you will grow in 10T and whip WB.
You can work PH for self build in 6T but no food and commerce
or you can build WB on silk with WB in 7T that's quicker then 10T of whip, slower then PH, but you get for 7T 1C and 1F surplus.

I admit i usually don't do such microing (max when i settle the city for first build and then completely forget about it, that's probably why i sometimes struggle on emperor), but would like to hear your input on this.

Your right, that was just stupidity on my part. I completely forgot to micromanage that city. Fixed it.

I have not yet looked at Kossins latest post because I don't want to spoil anything for myself here.

Part 4

Spoiler :

Still turn 86

I switched Alexandria to working the cottage and Helio to working the corn which had been free since I started building TGL in memphis... DUH!

I'm going to chop the workboat instead of whipping it.

The tradescreen so far:

Spoiler :

And my tech screen:

Spoiler :

Turn 87

At this point I've decided I would much rather have the fail gold for the parthenon. If noone else builds it and I still have time I might build it in Memphis and get fail gold anyway. I put it in the back of the cue next turn, whip / chop graneries and try to double my workers

Spoiler :

Turn 88

Got the GL, building graneries now in preparation for heavy whipping. Mansa goes Philo so right now it looks like I will win the music race.

Spoiler :

Turn89

I got the GSpy and I send him to explore Mansa's land. At some point I will use him to infiltrate a city for lots of spy points vs Mansa. I never settle great spys, there is no way you can generate enough spy points with a settled spy to counter +2500 or so spy points vs a player in the early game, and later in the game +12 EP's becomes moot with things like jails. Building a scotland yard ( or whatever ) is not really efficient either because later in the game you can get buildings with about the same +% to spy points in every city.

I finish a granery and start building a settler in Thebes. Memphis switches to build a granery in two turns. I chop the work boat in alexandria 1 turn before the border pop. I switch it to working the silk and switch helio to working the cottage. Then I move two workers on top of a hill near Thebes to chop the settler and build another mine. You would never think of running short on mines on this map but I'm doing it here.

AAAAAANNND I also notice The Orange One is sending another chariot after that barb city. I decide to cancel open borders and throw him out just in case. If he were to take that barb city it would really be a pain in the neck for me. This sends Willy into annoyed status but I will try to make that up with trades at some point. If all else fails I can switch out of hinduism to get OB again.

To top the turn off I whip graneries in Helio and Elephantine. And switch alexandria back to working the cottage, heh.

Spoiler :

Turn90

Mansa with 2 gold in capitol. Gee, that's fair.

Spoiler :

I start a farm near Thebes, Start chopping a granery in alexandria. Start building a hindu missionary in Helio. I am Willems worst enemy now, which is probably not too dangerous at this point. My next objective is to nab that iron and build swordsmen to take that hilled barb city ( I already played though this map once so I know what's up there. If Willem is not too close to taking it I will milk it for exp to unlock the HE.

Spoiler :

Turn 91

Granery finished in Memphis, so I start building a worker who I will whip and place the extra hammers into the NE. I switch Alexadria to working the fish and juggle around Thebes and Memphis's tiles so they are getting the most bang for the buck.

Spoiler :

Turn 92

Two whips on this turn.

The hindu mish

Spoiler :

And the memphis worker

Spoiler :

I rearrange some more tiles in Thebes and I have a worker start to road the iron.

I do this deal because I don't need the health and the extra gold is always nice.

Spoiler :

turn 93

Settlers done in Thebes so I switch it to research to push a little faster toward music. I send the settler to settle the Iron spot. I also know there's seafood there from a previous playthrough. I am not worried about barbs because Willem has his troops there and I doubt if there are any roving archers.

Then I started building a worker in Helio, the NE in Memphis. And I started another farm to share near the center.

Spoiler :

turn 94

I start working another Hindu mish in Helio because I want a 2 pop whip and the worker will only be 1 pop. So instead I will build a mish and then let the overflow finish the worker. Helio will need to give up the corn anyway when Memphis reaches size 5. I move a worker to chop for Elephantine for when the missionary spreads Hinduism there. And I spread Hinduism to Alexandria and get ready for another chop for a lighthouse ( maybe ).

Spoiler :

turn 95

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????

Spoiler :

Mansa somehow has enough beakers to push music in 3 turns. 3 FREAKING TURNS!

I stop everything and put all my cities on scientists or working mines, even to the point at starving my cities. It's not enough though, I can only get 4 turns. I did beg mansa to adopt slavery however, it's possible that will buy me another turn, but I doubt it.

Spoiler :

Even if I miss the great artist getting to music right after Mansa should give me a chance to at least trade it to one other AI before he does. At least I hope..

Unfortunately rosey will not give me any gold, if I could move my slider up at this point I could win easily. It would be really sweet if someone built the parthenon right now and gave me some fail gold.

turn 96

Wow, what a load of crap this is. Switching to slavery didn't do much to his tech rate apparently.

Spoiler :

turn 97

Somehow Mansa gets music a turn early! So that's 2 turn music for our favorite diety tech whore. Ya, that's fair alright.

I think I will just settle the iron, so I can borrow the pig. The +2 production is nothing to sneeze at either. Since I know I'm not going to win music I return most of my cities to normal. Hopefully Mansa does not trade music to everyone in 2 turns.

Spoiler :

turn 98

Pi-Ramses is settled and I start working on a boat while chopping. I can trade for calendar soon so I will start clearing away the jungle near Elephantine. Mansa hasn't traded music yet, good. 1 turn HBR means he has at least 400 BPT!

Spoiler :

I trade my rice for 6 gpt from Orange. I can do without my rice for 10 turns.

turn 99

Mansa has still not traded music which is good. Very good. Though I'm still bitter about that 2 turn crap.

I pull off this trade now:

Spoiler :

And next turn I will trade both MC + Music to WVO for currency + calendar. I will have to switch out of hinduism but it's a small price to pay.

I start building a forge in Thebes, whip the mish in Helio and switch some more crap around. Chop the granery in Alex with lots of overflow and start teching drama, because I want to build a globe theater ASAP.

Spoiler :

Right at the end of the turn I switch to no religion to get Orange to trade with me next turn.

Turn 100

Someone builds the Parthenon! YAY!

Willy the Orange chump will trade with me now, so I do the deed:

Spoiler :

I also open borders with the Willy. But I will close them again if I see him heading toward that barb city.

As you may notice I have will have 3 more workers next turn, which will bring me to 9 workers for 5 cities. That should be fine for now but I hope to have at least 12 by the time I get the 7th city, which is my next priority. I notice the mouseliem of the mowlows ( or however you spell it ) is available. I am considering taking a shot at it once I finish a forge in Thebes. I have some spare forests which could help. Alexandria is building an archer for policing.

Spoiler :

Now that I have iron I can do this trade, maybe I can build a few elephants before he cancels:

Spoiler :

turn 101

Here are the units I have right now:

Spoiler :

I switch Thebes back to the rice so it can grow faster and work more mines. I start building swords in 3 of my cities. If I don't take that barb city soon it won't be online to help me vs Mansa ( or whoever I rush first, but we hope it's Mansa ).

Spoiler :

I shuffled around the city tiles somewhat and I move my workers to get the calendar resources online asap so I can trade them for gold.

turn 102

Not too much worth mentioning except I whip two swordsmen

turn 103

Some trades go down, dye for 7 gold to Mansa and spices for 5 gold to Rosy.

I get a GS and I could bulb compass for some trades, but Willy already has compass. I could wait till after drama to bulb philo, but both Rosy and Mansa have it. I will stop researching after drama and put all my commerce into espionage so I don't think building an academy would be useful. I will save the GS for now.

Willy's making moves at that barb city again so I just start building mass swords. I will take that out soon and will have my 7th city.

Spoiler :

To be continued...

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Part 5

Spoiler :

Turn 104

Whipped some more swords and shuffled some worked tiles around to keep everything optimal. I have plenty of happiness so I have no problem whipping heavily.

Spoiler :

Mansa is going engineering, which is great because I will steal it and use it on him.

I convert back to hindu because I really want that bonus to buildings, and Willy won't trade compass anyhow.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I put 1 turn in construction so I can trade for it without adding gold. Because I have libraries I get +25% research for my gold, so it's cheaper if the AI trades me gold instead of the other way around.

I figure 6 swords should be enough for that hilled city. I'm going to build a road with those 2 workers next turn to get the lagging swordsmen caught up.

Turn 106

Unfortunately Mansa only has 50 gold this turn, but I do it anyways.

Spoiler :

Then the AP election comes up and I vote Rosy. Why Rosy? Well I don't want Mansa to control the AP when I declare on him. Then there is the fact that I would rather have another +2 diplo points from Rosy, since I don't want him backstabbing me when I do the same to Mansa.

Spoiler :

At this point I have most of my cities building forges. If you think about it every 4 turns of production with a forge you get 1 turn free. That is nothing to sneeze at. I put a turn into HBR for trading with Rosy. I want to start building elephants asap.

Turn 107

I make the trade for HBR with Rosy.

Spoiler :

I know this is going to piss of Mansa, but I want to get off Willys worst enemy list and open up a trade for compass if I have a chance.

Spoiler :

I traded him construction because the AI usually doesn't research drama until late, so hopefully that gives me more time to trade that to him.

I beg 50 gold from mansa too. I won't be backstabbing him in the next 10 turns so why not.

I do this trade with Rosy because with forges I get an extra +1 from gold. I might not build the Globe theater till after the first rush, so all the + happiness is good.

Spoiler :

At 200 BC I am done teching for quite some time. Now I will put everything into spy points vs Mansa and rob him blind.

Spoiler :

Turn 108

Willy gets feudalism and will trade it. I will nab it off him easily pretty soon when I start stealing from Mansa, so no hurry.

Turn 109

The attack on barb city begins. There are only 2 archers defending the city. Hopefully I will take one out, heal and then take the other out with the same swordsman. If I can do this I can unlock the HE and that will just be awesome! 57% chance with CR I.

Spoiler :

Success!

Spoiler :

Okay now it's possible that next turn I could use the same guy and win for another +4 exp. A huge longshot but I'll risk it for a chance at the HE. I'm not worried about Willy taking the city with just one archer.

I whip forges in 2 cities and rearange some tiles.

Spoiler :

turn 110

The swordsman had only a 2% chance of survival when I promoted him. So I moved him back into my territory to heal. It's possible that another archer will spawn in the barb city when I'm done healing. Is this worth delayed my 7th city? You bet, 2x faster production of military units is WELL worth it.

I start building a baracks in thebes and whip a forge in Alexandria and do a little city micro as usual. Mansa goes for the last religion.

Spoiler :

I do this little trade with Willy.

Spoiler :

turn 111

Willy pulls a stunt with his chariot and nearly gets himself killed. I whip a forge in Helio and do some more micro.

Spoiler :

turn 112

I start building a couple spys. I will need lots ( probably like 12+ ) to take what I need from Mansa.

Spoiler :

turn 113

This is the moment of truth, if I win here I get the HE and double military unit production. It would only be fair since the RNG screwed me so hard with music earlier.

Spoiler :

And.... the computer kicks me square in the nuts a second time. I take the town and forget about the HE for now.

Spoiler :

turn 114

I finish roading up my territory so I can get units to the frontline quickly.

I need lots of spys and fast.

Everyone who can is building spys, not much else going on.

turn 115

Mass spy building. I want to declare on Mansa around 300 AD when I'm pretty sure he won't be getting grenadeers anytime soon. Pretty sure....

Spoiler :

Continued later.