Let's talk about how bad multiplayer is right now...

[Empedocles]

I played an NQ game yesterday where we banned PAC, artists, and tectonic scanners, and it went off with only 1 reload and was a lot of fun. There were a variety of strategies, and I don't really feel like there were any major imbalances.

One guy did conquer 2 of the other players with xeno swarms with an early attack, but he did it by going Might, rather than with affinity pod luck. I went full industry and was able to fight him quite effectively with lower tier units, since he had to kill 4 units per turn just to slow me down. The main thing that stopped me from rolling over him was actually the terrain: it is hard to human wave someone through a mountain pass. If I had thought to go for the phasal transporter I would have beaten him.

Trade routes were pretty damn strong: my top 3 cities were outputting about 150 production each from all the trade routes feeding into them. But that encourages you to expand, which is more fun IMO than the turtling that BNW encouraged. Having more colonies should make your empire stronger, and the resources coming in from the outer rim should increase production in your core.

It was my first MP game of BE, and it was a lot of fun. I did run into the algae quest bug, which pissed me off and set me back a purity level. That sucked, but it didn't cost me the game or anything.

The spies thing was annoying, though I managed to fix it for one of my neighbors by sending a scout to view his city. I played ARC, and agreed before hand not to use the establish network spamming. I wasn't able to coup anyone, but I stole a ton of energy and science.

I got trolled by 2 stations, but both of them got killed (I think by aliens) by the time I needed to expand to those spots.

The balance is pretty bad, and there are some bugs, but it is still a fun game. And the multiplayer has much more potential than BNW's does. I mean, I have heard of 4 different styles of early rushes (rangers, battlesuits, laser satellites, and spy/defector), and at least 3 standard peaceful strategies: prosperity or industry rex, or Ectogenesis pod rush. That is fairly good variety before any balance patches.

 

[CraigMak]

NOPE.JPG

It locks everyone into a single optimal build order. That is not choke full of tactics, that in consistent mirror matches.

EVERY multiplayer game I have played in has every player not trailing behind by 100 points playing one of 3 setups:

Polystralia/Artists/Continental Surveyor/Laboratory
PAC/Artists/Tectonic Scanner/Worker
ARC/Artists/Tectonic Scanner/Laboratory

It is only a matter of time until everyone is running one of these exact starts.

On a positive note:

If you set the world type of Taigan the lack of resource pods and expedition sites as well as the higher % that everyone get's a coastal start helps balance it out a lot.

I don't agree here, I think that running the free worker is much better than the laboratory. This is mainly because resource pods, crash sites, progenitor ruins etc.. are so strong. Getting these can make or break your game so explorers need to be spammed early. There is no time to make a worker so you need to get one out for free.

These early finds can add up to 2 or even 3 affinity points which is just plain massive, not to mention culture pods and science pods which are crazy.

I don't know why you would ever get the continental surveyor over tectonic scanner. No need for engineering and you get titanium right off the bat. Thank you Solomon's mine. Holy WTH on this resource.

Slavs are also very strong. I don't know why you would exclude them. They can pretty much slingshot anything they want. They can get out the earliest spies ever or snatch up anything really. Ectogenesis pod, Gene Vault, Affinity tech, or save it for something really BIG.

What I really don't like is that optimal play is always artists straight into prosperity for the free settler. I don't care what your situation is. This is what you need to do.

 

[omniclast]

I don't know why you would ever get the continental surveyor over tectonic scanner. No need for engineering and you get titanium right off the bat. Thank you Solomon's mine. Holy WTH on this resource.

Because you can immediately trade with other players and high-yield stations on coast, without getting blocked by miasma. Science from external trade vessel routes >>> than +3 prod on 1-2 tiles. And likelihood of landing on coast is higher than landing near titanium. CS is the no-brainer.

 

[Quineloe]

Really depends on your map. Atlantean I'd see the point, but when you play on Pangaea, stations never pop on the coast line for me. Also, there's still this stupid ice blocking ships most of the time. If you drop down on the coast, but both exits are blocked by ice, your coast is worthless for trading.

 

[omniclast]

It's a gamble, but like I said your chances are still better than dropping next to titanium. And as long as someone else drops on coast, you can REX to coast and start trading. IME people are not abusing TRs enough, that's the only reason geo scanner seems better.

 

[Quineloe]

It's not just dropping next to titanium. Last MP game I played, my friend knew where to settle his second city and get three titanium tiles within the border for some absurd power production because he had tectonic scanners. It gives you a direct advantage until you research the reveal tech.

This is a guaranteed advantage, either of knowing that you don't have titanium nearby and therefore need to explore further or choose a different affinity path, or knowing exactly where the best sources are.

 

[s0nny80y]

How is it possible that people in the stone age of Civ 5 can chop trees faster than robots?

Each turn takes a year, according to 'view replays' under 'other' from the main menu, so...

Also, the time to research Engineering and to build a colonist after reaching a pop of two in your capital, coincides on standard speed and quick speed I think.

 

[omniclast]

It's not just dropping next to titanium. Last MP game I played, my friend knew where to settle his second city and get three titanium tiles within the border for some absurd power production because he had tectonic scanners. It gives you a direct advantage until you research the reveal tech.

This is a guaranteed advantage, either of knowing that you don't have titanium nearby and therefore need to explore further or choose a different affinity path, or knowing exactly where the best sources are.

The same exact argument could be made for knowing where coast is so you can build your second city there. (Or, for that matter, against the likelihood you'll end up with a possible city position that gives access to 3 titaniums -- that's not an argument that's just bad map generation.) If knowing where to build your second city is a "guaranteed advantage", then CS has it, and it's still got a way bigger payoff than scanner.

Giving you an advantage until you get engineering isn't a big deal -- you can do that before you have your first colonist out. There is no research that will give you CS, and it remains an advantage through the early to mid game.

 

[CraigMak]

Because you can immediately trade with other players and high-yield stations on coast, without getting blocked by miasma. Science from external trade vessel routes >>> than +3 prod on 1-2 tiles. And likelihood of landing on coast is higher than landing near titanium. CS is the no-brainer.

#1 Titanium Yields 5 production not 3.
#2 Titanium is guaranteed if you have it set to strategic balance.
#3 You never have to waste beakers on researching engineering.
#4 External trade routes are fail mode. Benefit TWO of your cities not ONE.
#5 Outposts are nothing but worthless trolls that block your expansions. If you are trading with them, you are failing.

 

[Willburn]

#5 i am not so sure about. with virtue you can net +18 energy from outpost + whatever they give as a natural bonus. Not to mention early you can get a quest from trading outpost giving you 2 free soldiers so atleast one outpost trade that you cancel into another trade could be very worthwhile. Also most of them give a 20% bonus quest as well.

 

[CraigMak]

#5 i am not so sure about. with virtue you can net +18 energy from outpost + whatever they give as a natural bonus. Not to mention early you can get a quest from trading outpost giving you 2 free soldiers so atleast one outpost trade that you cancel into another trade could be very worthwhile. Also most of them give a 20% bonus quest as well.

What does with virtue mean? Culture is Virtue now, there are virtue trees which give you different things. Are you saying there is a specific virtue policy that increases outpost yields?

 

[omniclast]

#1 Titanium Yields 5 production not 3.

+3 production over a normal mine tile.

#2 Titanium is guaranteed if you have it set to strategic balance.

And CS is guaranteed if you play an island map. Fail to see your point - ban strategic balance if it's the problem. On standard settings scanner is still second best option.

#3 You never have to waste beakers on researching engineering.

Yes, you do, if you ever want to built the combat rover line of units.

#4 External trade routes are fail mode. Benefit TWO of your cities not ONE.

Now I know I would flatten you in MP. The flat science from external trade routes is far superior to growth from internal trades. I've tried a pile of different academy spam builds and ICS with external TRs get going far sooner and get to a much higher total output, every time.

#5 Outposts are nothing but worthless trolls that block your expansions. If you are trading with them, you are failing.

You mean stations? Mostly agree, but the one that gives 15 culture at tier 3 is an exception. No other way to get that income. Early game, trading with station can make sense if they have a culture yield and there aren't other coastal players to trade with.

 

[omniclast]

What does with virtue mean? Culture is Virtue now, there are virtue trees which give you different things. Are you saying there is a specific virtue policy that increases outpost yields?

There is a virtue in industry that gives +6 ept to station trade routes.

 

[ohmydayum]

I tried to find a match on multiplayer and there were 5-7 games available. The game is brand new and I feel like more people are playing (like 10-20k) then what I see in the lobby. Am i missing something?

 

[Acken]

I tried to find a match on multiplayer and there were 5-7 games available. The game is brand new and I feel like more people are playing (like 10-20k) then what I see in the lobby. Am i missing something?

Most people play singleplayer and private games.

 

[omniclast]

I tried to find a match on multiplayer and there were 5-7 games available. The game is brand new and I feel like more people are playing (like 10-20k) then what I see in the lobby. Am i missing something?

I find this strange also. When the game debuted the lobby screen was regularly full, now there's just a handful of people who forgot to click "private game". I don't know if my comp is having trouble finding games on the server or if people have got so fed up with DCs and crashes that they've given up on MP. If so, that would be a real shame.

 

[Quineloe]

I tried playing BNW with internet lobby games, and it was terrible. I'm not doing it again. unfortunately, you can sit in the NQ chatrooms for hours and only get enter/leave messages these days. It seems people have given up on BNW until the chaos patch gets fixed and have given up on BE until the first big patch comes in.

 

[soprof]

I tried to find a match on multiplayer and there were 5-7 games available. The game is brand new and I feel like more people are playing (like 10-20k) then what I see in the lobby. Am i missing something?

Your only see people at the same steam server.

Go into steam->settings->download_server to change that. Don't choose a server to far away - it may get pingy. If you're with a friend - it's perfectly fine to "monitor" different servers and than join one another.