Let's talk about opening moves

[Halcyan2]

Many people do not use scouts and due to movement limitations often they do not go faster but I often get one first because understanding the lay of the land is important and they can fight a bit if needed. They also upgrade nicely to a ranger if the survive long enough, stop barbs spawning in a nasty corner if they survive initial scout and are very useful for the interior of a second continent if they last that long. Yes its not most effecient for the domination steamroller players but regardless I like to explore and understand the wider strategy.

Scouts can be useful for early conquest. Sometimes I get scouts from goodie huts which I use for taking cities. They can even be better than Warriors for this since you mainly rely on the Archers to bring down the city defenses and the Scout's 3 movement means it can safety hide until it is time to take the city.

 

[SaucyJ]

Why do so many of you go for slingers early on? They're weak to any melee unit, only have 1 range (and therefore if they attack they'll definitely get attacked back in return) and the boosts from the tribal huts early on are so powerful that it would seem to me that building scouts would be the better option by far. Granted scouts are weak to melee units as well, but at least scouts can run away.

Plus the free envoy for finding a city state first. So why slingers?

 

[Halcyan2]

Why do so many of you go for slingers early on? They're weak to any melee unit, only have 1 range (and therefore if they attack they'll definitely get attacked back in return) and the boosts from the tribal huts early on are so powerful that it would seem to me that building scouts would be the better option by far. Granted scouts are weak to melee units as well, but at least scouts can run away.

Plus the free envoy for finding a city state first. So why slingers?

Archer rush is extremely powerful, and the AI isn't well-equipped to counter it.

You're not actually going for the SLINGERS. You are going for the ARCHERS, which you upgrade to. It is cheaper to buy a Slinger and upgrade him, than to buy an Archer outright.

You build/buy 3-4 Slingers. Get one to kill a barbarian for the Archery eureka, finish Archery, upgrade everyone and then go to war.

 

[Customgoban]

If you got two horses... Builder->Monument->Horse, Horse, Horse, Horse, Horse. 5 Horses can usually kill an neighbors empire. Maybe make a settler after monument if you don't have the horse making civic yet.

 

[The Highwayman]

You guys who start off building not one, but two, non-military (Scouts and/or Builders) units; what level are you playing? At harder difficulties I've found that there's a good chance you'll be swamped by Barbarians or even the AI (if there close) if you don't have an early army.

Immortal/Deity. Judging the lay of the land ASAP is key. If barbs and/or a nearby Civ are an immediate threat, it's military all the way. If not, an early builder and settler will pay huge dividends quickly. Sometimes I roll the dice and pay dearly. Other times the starting location is so bad I have 4 hostile warriors at my doorstep before my second unit gets out. Thanks Firaxis.

 

[Victoria]

If you got two horses... Builder->Monument->Horse, Horse, Horse, Horse, Horse. 5 Horses can usually kill an neighbors empire. Maybe make a settler after monument if you don't have the horse making civic yet.

Many go slingers - archers and get chariots to knights.... Much more awesome when you add a single siege tower.

 

[joncnunn]

Why do so many of you go for slingers early on? They're weak to any melee unit, only have 1 range (and therefore if they attack they'll definitely get attacked back in return) and the boosts from the tribal huts early on are so powerful that it would seem to me that building scouts would be the better option by far. Granted scouts are weak to melee units as well, but at least scouts can run away.

Plus the free envoy for finding a city state first. So why slingers?

Why'd I build the scout(s) first; slingers are a cheaper way to build archers that's available without researching anything. The upgrade cost in gold is dirt cheap, so building several of your intended archers as slingers pays off.

There's other such units you can build not because you want that unit but because you want the next one; (building intending Swordmen as Warriors and upgrading, building intended Pikeman as Spearmen, etc.)

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Why'd I build the scout(s) first; slingers are a cheaper way to build archers that's available without researching anything. The upgrade cost in gold is dirt cheap, so building several of your intended archers as slingers pays off.

There's other such units you can build not because you want that unit but because you want the next one; (building intending Swordmen as Warriors and upgrading, building intended Pikeman as Spearmen, etc.)

The best ones, in my opinion, are Slingers > Archers and Heavy Chariots > Knights. I only try to do the same with Swordsmen if my UU is a Swordsman replacement (namely Legions), because Iron is somewhat hard to connect early on and Swordsmen are slow. Now, I don't see much value in Spearmen > Pikemen, with the first being weak overall and the second not so great (and a dead-end tech without much to offer)

 

[Customgoban]

Many go slingers - archers and get chariots to knights.... Much more awesome when you add a single siege tower.

I use this all the time in multiplayer, 5 horses is more than adequate, until cities reach 30 str.

 

[Victoria]

30 strength gets reached fairly quickly on higher levels.
Just keep in mind archers then knights for when you are struggling.

 

[fortydayweekend]

You guys who start off building not one, but two, non-military (Scouts and/or Builders) units; what level are you playing? At harder difficulties I've found

In that case my opening sequence is:
0. Save game on turn 1
1. Scout
2. Builder
3. Slinger, sli.. oh crap where did all those horsemen come from???
4. Load turn 1
5. Slinger x3
6. Builder

 

[Ornen]

In that case my opening sequence is:
0. Save game on turn 1
1. Scout
2. Builder
3. Slinger, sli.. oh crap where did all those horsemen come from???
4. Load turn 1
5. Slinger x3
6. Builder

Right, so these builds aren't really consistently useful. If you want to get greedy, a scout->builder opening sometimes works. But there's a reasonable chance you'll run into some nasty early barbs, which can completely ruin your start at higher difficulties. That's why any safe build features an early military unit (in most cases a slinger), and why in practical builds you have to choose between the early scout and builder – or forgo both.

The scout's map-dependent, but I'm rarely building one on my games. I find its uses to be pretty limited and dicey compared to the surefire builder/settler into an archer rush.

 

[KmDubya]

I find that is comes down to luck as far as discovering city states first rather than whether you use scouts, slingers or warrior to "scout" your area.

You settle your city and send your warrior towards something in the direction that he was already heading towards; you then go some distance, maybe six or eight tiles straight away and then circle around your starting city. If I have a river I like to follow that as it makes for good settling spots. If I find a barbarian camp I attack it and heal until I get it to near death and have my first slinger walk over and kill it for the eureka. If I don't find a camp with the warrior before the slinger gets made, then the slinger will walk in the opposite direction and do the same thing.

What ends up happening is that one direction will be well scouted but the other direction will only have the city sight distance.

Using Scouts instead I'd maybe cover ground a little faster, but the same issue could be that I went West instead of East and missed the city state that was one tile further away. Or my Slingers could find things at the same rate that Scouts would, at least in the immediate area around the starting position.

Ultimately I want to have the fog cleared back at least eight tiles, preferably twelve in all directions, identifying a few city locations, any city states and in what direction the AI is. Long distance scouting I like to use horsemen as they can survive a close encounter with barbarians until the Renaissance while scouts can get ganked in a single turn by Classical units.

 

[fortydayweekend]

Right, so these builds aren't really consistently useful. If you want to get greedy, a scout->builder opening sometimes works. But there's a reasonable chance you'll run into some nasty early barbs, which can completely ruin your start at higher difficulties. That's why any safe build features an early military unit (in most cases a slinger), and why in practical builds you have to choose between the early scout and builder – or forgo both.

The scout's map-dependent, but I'm rarely building one on my games. I find its uses to be pretty limited and dicey compared to the surefire builder/settler into an archer rush.

Yeah, I think the scout opener is more game-style dependent than map-dependent - as you don't know much about the map when contemplating the first move. Scout on deity is probably a luxury you can only afford if you're willing to reload.

 

[Bro]

I used to go scout - slinger - builder - slinger - slinger - slinger - slinger warrior but now I've going for the early builder to rush Stonehenge for China. Sometimes even 2 builders in row if there are no pesty barbs or hostile AIs nearby. After that it's one slinger. From there it again depends. Does the map look like I need a scout? Is there now barbs showing up? Did Gandhi decide to walk his army of 5 warriors and 1 slinger across the map to my borders? If I can do a settler I will do a setller. I've found out that if you can get an early second city with some good production tiles it will become extremely easier to build up your invading or defending army, since on Immortal level I'm really needing like 2 warriors and 5 Archers to take down an AI. I'm also beelining for Craftmanship and Archery after getting Astrology. I'll try to get Archery done before I'm building my second or third slinger so I will save the money from not having to upgrade.

So in short I'm doing this:
Build Order
Builder, Slinger/Scout/Builder, Settler/Slinger, Slinger/Archer, Archer, Archer, Warrior, Archer

Civics
Craftmanship

Technologies
Astrology, Animal Husbandry, Archery

 

[Quillan]

I play diety vs ai and mess around lower for MP testing. I have a lot of hours for what its worth and generally win.

I 99% of the time start scout, and 75% of the time go a 2nd scout. Say what you will about their drawbacks, but meeting city states for a free envoy is very valuable as are goody huts. Obviously there is randomness built in but thats the way of the game.

These stragegies above that dont explore are going to have a hard time --- that +2 science or culture or +4 gold per turn really adds up, and it runs in perpituity. Not to mention until you know your surroundings well you are always making sub optimal decisions on build order and settling sites.

Every choice from there is based upon what I've found --- If I can drop a quick second city in a power location I will build a settler asap.

Overall I'd say that focus less on a pure build order and spend more time reading the facts on the ground. And always always rock the eurekas hard. free culture/science.

 

[Forbiddentwo]

In Emperor and above, is there any good reason to not ALWAYS do the following:

1: Get Archers asap for a quick invasion.

2: Beeline Currency, grabbing only the bare minimum of off-track techs (say, if you NEED mining or whatever to improve 3 tiles for the craftsmanship eureka).

3: Beeline Apprenticeship after that.

4: Build districts in the order: Commerical, Industrial, Campus, Whateveryouneed (Theater seems nice a good choice since you can get civics faster, then entertainment)

With encampments being way on the ass end of things because you can get by with just archers/crossbowmen for most of the game, then you can quickly transition to units that don't require resources.

As far as the other tech tree goes:

Beeline political philosophy, then Feudalism (then taper off and have no sense of direction whatsoever. seriously, help me out here! Usually I go for Urbanization and Mobilization)

It feels like doing anything else is really suboptimal. Am I wrong? Please tell me that I am.

 

[Bro]

In Emperor and above, is there any good reason to not ALWAYS do the following:

1: Get Archers asap for a quick invasion.

2: Beeline Currency, grabbing only the bare minimum of off-track techs (say, if you NEED mining or whatever to improve 3 tiles for the craftsmanship eureka).

3: Beeline Apprenticeship after that.

4: Build districts in the order: Commerical, Industrial, Campus, Whateveryouneed (Theater seems nice a good choice since you can get civics faster, then entertainment)

With encampments being way on the ass end of things because you can get by with just archers/crossbowmen for most of the game, then you can quickly transition to units that don't require resources.

As far as the other tech tree goes:

Beeline political philosophy, then Feudalism (then taper off and have no sense of direction whatsoever. seriously, help me out here! Usually I go for Urbanization and Mobilization)

It feels like doing anything else is really suboptimal. Am I wrong? Please tell me that I am.

Well if you want to go for a religion it goes a little bit differently.

 

[Ornen]

In Emperor and above, is there any good reason to not ALWAYS do the following:

1: Get Archers asap for a quick invasion.

2: Beeline Currency, grabbing only the bare minimum of off-track techs (say, if you NEED mining or whatever to improve 3 tiles for the craftsmanship eureka).

3: Beeline Apprenticeship after that.

4: Build districts in the order: Commerical, Industrial, Campus, Whateveryouneed (Theater seems nice a good choice since you can get civics faster, then entertainment)

With encampments being way on the ass end of things because you can get by with just archers/crossbowmen for most of the game, then you can quickly transition to units that don't require resources.

As far as the other tech tree goes:

Beeline political philosophy, then Feudalism (then taper off and have no sense of direction whatsoever. seriously, help me out here! Usually I go for Urbanization and Mobilization)

It feels like doing anything else is really suboptimal. Am I wrong? Please tell me that I am.

You're on the right track, but not 100% on it imo. For one, I don't think you strictly need to beeline Currency or Apprenticeship against all other priorities. Currency is great, but you don't really need it until you start building districts, which for me doesn't come until after building up my army and conquering a bit. Still an early priority, but there are plenty of techs besides mining you might grab along the way.

As for Apprenticeship, IZs are a lot less vital since the patch. Like Currency, you still want it, but not at the expense of every other tech, and in this case it's not even my top pick of the era. That would be Machinery, which unlocks crossbows and lumber mills. Those are great for many reasons, but here's two: for one, river lumber mills are some of the best tiles in the game, for another, they help boost production in cities that don't have hills.

As for districts, for me it's usually commercial + whatever my victory district is, eg theater for culture. Industrial and Entertainment as necessary to cover your empire, with a couple good campuses for any VC.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

In Emperor and above, is there any good reason to not ALWAYS do the following:

1: Get Archers asap for a quick invasion.

2: Beeline Currency, grabbing only the bare minimum of off-track techs (say, if you NEED mining or whatever to improve 3 tiles for the craftsmanship eureka).

3: Beeline Apprenticeship after that.

4: Build districts in the order: Commerical, Industrial, Campus, Whateveryouneed (Theater seems nice a good choice since you can get civics faster, then entertainment)

With encampments being way on the ass end of things because you can get by with just archers/crossbowmen for most of the game, then you can quickly transition to units that don't require resources.

As far as the other tech tree goes:

Beeline political philosophy, then Feudalism (then taper off and have no sense of direction whatsoever. seriously, help me out here! Usually I go for Urbanization and Mobilization)

It feels like doing anything else is really suboptimal. Am I wrong? Please tell me that I am.

Also, you forgot an early Entertainment Complex to build the Colosseum. Great culture and amenities, being of of the few wonders I consistently want.

After Feudalism, I go for a tier 2 government. Often Merchant Republic for me, because of the extra trade routes and it's right after Mercenaries (which unlocks the 50% uograde cost policy) and Medieval Fairs (easy Eureka and on the way to other civics). Theocracy is viable too if I have strong faith and want to go Domination/Religion. Later civics often depends on the victory in mind, though I want a tier 3 government fast too.