Let's talk UI

[Leyrann]

I actually think it's fine. I never miss any information, and I don't feel like it's making me do more than needed. If anything, the UI feels very efficient to me. Everything that needs to be there is there, but it's not crowded out by other stuff.

I know many people disagree with me, however, so please, explain.

 

[jbavon]

My main UI annoyances:

- City bombard is a mess to click and no notification
- Cant check deals/info during an AI trade proposal (Dont I already have that lux?)
- War notification icons are a huge step back from V where you could tell at a glance who was at war. Now you have to somehow get the icon to open up and find the info yourself. And the civ names arent even bolded. So reading them is a mess.
- And why do you need to give me 5 separate notifications that 5 different CS have joined a war. Its no surprise that all suzerains joined the war.
- Generally annoying to use notifications on the right side
- And then theres the whole 'rumour' system which you cant customize (or decrease) to get rid of the types of info you dont want.

 

[c4c6]

Playing civ4, I acquired the habit to use the ProductionQueue just as a loose list of items (in random order), which should be build in this city or at least might be interesting (as reminder). Just to not forget, what have been already thought several turns ago.

In the CQUI mod I like also what I have seen about bringing up the "complete city screen" with one action and many small changes like 'all great people on one page' and a lot additional information bits.

 

[stinkubus]

I've got used to the UI. I even tried CQUI and uninstalled it because I actually preferred the vanilla interface. The only time I'm really cursing it is when I have to switch production in 8-12 cities simultaneously around the time I'm getting to Feudalism.

 

[Leyrann]

My main UI annoyances:

- City bombard is a mess to click and no notification
- Cant check deals/info during an AI trade proposal (Dont I already have that lux?)
- War notification icons are a huge step back from V where you could tell at a glance who was at war. Now you have to somehow get the icon to open up and find the info yourself. And the civ names arent even bolded. So reading them is a mess.
- And why do you need to give me 5 separate notifications that 5 different CS have joined a war. Its no surprise that all suzerains joined the war.
- Generally annoying to use notifications on the right side
- And then theres the whole 'rumour' system which you cant customize (or decrease) to get rid of the types of info you dont want.

You do have a point with city bombard, I agree there. With the trade proposals, however, you can just look at which luxeries you have available; they're all shown, and it also shows the ones you only have 1 copy of. As far as I am aware, however, the AI does not propose to trade a luxery resource you already have. As for the war notifications and the rumour system, your points actually cancel each other out. I agree that right now it's kinda hard to pull out the notifications at the right, but you don't need to if you read the rumours. Skimming them is enough already, in fact. And the notifications of city-states, well, how else are you gonna do that? Or are you saying you're, at all times, keeping track of which city-states belong to who? This is better than not getting notified for sure.

Playing civ4, I acquired the habit to use the ProductionQueue just as a loose list of items (in random order), which should be build in this city or at least might be interesting (as reminder). Just to not forget, what have been already thought several turns ago.

In the CQUI mod I like also what I have seen about bringing up the "complete city screen" with one action and many small changes like 'all great people on one page' and a lot additional information bits.

How do you keep track of cities though? Doesn't this mean that, if you use a build queue, you have to check every few turns wheter a city has finished it's current item to then select the correct new one? It sounds like more tedious than no build queue to me...

 

[Rosty K]

Definitely need:

0) List of active deals (with turns left) (+ what resources I'm getting from City-States);
1) Find my units;
2) Turns remaining on a trade route;
3) What districts do I have where?
4) Religious units should wake up with religious units of other religions in sight (when we are at peace, that is!);
5) Even better - warn me about religious units at my border (even at peace) as you do about barbarians.
6) Show me (or at least give an option) all movement of enemy units during a war, not just when they attack me (I think it was there in all previous games, wonder why they decided to cut it).

Not mentioning the city bombard thing because others already did it.

Optional:

1) District range lens;
2) Show me the adjacency bonus of an existing district.

 

[Leyrann]

Definitely need:

0) List of active deals (with turns left) (+ what resources I'm getting from City-States);
1) Find my units;
2) Turns remaining on a trade route;
3) What districts do I have where?
4) Religious units should wake up with religious units of other religions in sight (when we are at peace, that is!);
5) Even better - warn me about religious units at my border (even at peace) as you do about barbarians.
6) Show me (or at least give an option) all movement of enemy units during a war, not just when they attack me (I think it was there in all previous games, wonder why they decided to cut it).

Not mentioning the city bombard thing because others already did it.

Optional:

1) District range lens;
2) Show me the adjacency bonus of an existing district.

0. True.
1. Select any unit, click on it's name.
2. Typically when they reach their home city, short routes might travel more than once.
3. Not sure where you'd want this for, but you can just select a spy. Typically it's when you're planning a new district, and in that case you're looking at your city anyways, and for ED and IZ you'll have to look at their exact position anyways.
4. There's no "alert" function? (I'll admit, I never bother with religion myself, and even when I do it's just "all send them forward right now")
5. Even when you have no religion yourself? Besides, I think you'd get spammed with messages anyways.
6. They cut it because it's sooooooo much of your camera moving and showing stuff that can be done faster if they don't show it. You can move the camera around in the warzone if you want anyways, and for the rest of the map their positions are all that matters.

1. I very much expect them to add it sometime, it won't be the first time they add stuff from mods. Remember that range can vary though.
2. Mouse over the tooltip, it shows the adjacency bonus plus what you get from city-states.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Skimming them is enough already, in fact. And the notifications of city-states, well, how else are you gonna do that? Or are you saying you're, at all times, keeping track of which city-states belong to who? This is better than not getting notified for sure.



How do you keep track of cities though? Doesn't this mean that, if you use a build queue, you have to check every few turns wheter a city has finished it's current item to then select the correct new one? It sounds like more tedious than no build queue to me...

In CQUI, the head of the suzerain is shown on the City Info bar of the city state, and in addition, the unit icons of the CS show a border around them to show those units are at war with you. Those two features alone (instead of having to click through every CS to see the status -- and then when it changes, and I've got 50 other things to do. It's much easier to see a unit and know instantly it is at war with you.

As for the build queue, you can by all means choose not to use it. That's your choice. But it should be a *choice* and not excluded just because someone forgot. I can't remember if Civ 2 had one, but 3-5 certainly did. And if it's moddable, then it's fixable.

 

[Leyrann]

In CQUI, the head of the suzerain is shown on the City Info bar of the city state, and in addition, the unit icons of the CS show a border around them to show those units are at war with you. Those two features alone (instead of having to click through every CS to see the status -- and then when it changes, and I've got 50 other things to do. It's much easier to see a unit and know instantly it is at war with you.

As for the build queue, you can by all means choose not to use it. That's your choice. But it should be a *choice* and not excluded just because someone forgot. I can't remember if Civ 2 had one, but 3-5 certainly did. And if it's moddable, then it's fixable.

A nice feature from CQUI, but can you really blame Firaxis for not thinking of it? It wasn't there in Civ V either, and I've not heard of it being there in mods. Either way, maybe Firaxis will add it to the game sometime, wouldn't be the first. As for when I wonder if I'm at war though, I just press the city name and then I look at the icon, so it's pretty easy still.

2 had no build queue, by the way. And yeah, I guess some people really miss it. I think it may have been omitted intentionally though, as production is very important in this game, and if you put three items in you might very well find yourself a full era ahead by the time the last one finishes. But yeah, there's no absolute reason for the build queue to not be there, I suppose.

 

[rschissler]

"- Cant check deals/info during an AI trade proposal (Dont I already have that lux?)"
"0) List of active deals (with turns left) (+ what resources I'm getting from City-States)"

This is my biggest annoyance.

 

[Leyrann]

"- Cant check deals/info during an AI trade proposal (Dont I already have that lux?)"
"0) List of active deals (with turns left) (+ what resources I'm getting from City-States)"

This is my biggest annoyance.

First one: You can just check your available stuff wheter or not you have it. As I already said, which you'd have seen if you'd have continued reading.
Second one: Agreed here, this one should be in.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

First one: Where can you see if you have a duplicate copy and that it is yours versus one for which you have traded or are getting from a CS? That can make a difference. Unless that was patched, I only see that ability in CQUI.

EDIT: Again, just because you may not use the feature doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. There are plenty of features I haven't used through the years in Civ, but they were there for someone else at least.

 

[WillowBrook]

With the trade proposals, however, you can just look at which luxeries you have available; they're all shown, and it also shows the ones you only have 1 copy of. As far as I am aware, however, the AI does not propose to trade a luxery resource you already have.

Not true - I had the same AI sell me all three of their extra copies of a lux (each deal spaced out by about 10 turns) without me realizing it. I don't think it happens often, but I distinctly remember being rather annoyed by that, and I started using CQUI soon after.

My biggest beef with the default UI is the extra clicks to see lots of info, whether it's about cities or other civs. But I can understand that some don't mind it.

 

[Japper007]

The game has a lot of unnessesary clicks, some interfaces should really just be spliced together.

Why does checking my opponents progress require flipping through 5 seperate victory screens?

Why do I have 4 seperate city interfaces? Rather than just one like in civ 4 and 5? Why do I have to go to a whole different menu to view City Details?

My biggest personal gripe: Why can't I turn of the animation of menu's? It makes navigation so slooow to have it slide in every time.

It's all so needlessly inefficient, it's like they didn't even look at how previous civs did things or insisted on doing things differently just for the sake of it. Civ 5 had a brilliant, clear interface with attractive design to boot! It alone is what drew many new players to civ in the first place! Yes it showed a little to little detail, but at least everything really important was right there on the screen without a single drop-down menu.

 

[jbavon]

You do have a point with city bombard, I agree there. With the trade proposals, however, you can just look at which luxeries you have available; they're all shown, and it also shows the ones you only have 1 copy of. As far as I am aware, however, the AI does not propose to trade a luxery resource you already have. As for the war notifications and the rumour system, your points actually cancel each other out. I agree that right now it's kinda hard to pull out the notifications at the right, but you don't need to if you read the rumours. Skimming them is enough already, in fact. And the notifications of city-states, well, how else are you gonna do that? Or are you saying you're, at all times, keeping track of which city-states belong to who? This is better than not getting notified for sure.

Trade proposal doesnt show luxes you are receiving from other civs through trade already (AI often offer a lux another civ is already trading you)

The rumour system is info you get quickly and cant view again. It should not be an alternate to notifications. Thats poor design.

Re: CS notification. Why not bunch them in one notification with a bullet point list in the pull out info. That way all the info is one place and you dont have to work through rught clicking 6 notifications and opening them one at a time. Again an example of poor design making my use of the game more tedious.

 

[The_Quasar]

I'd like to be able to see:-
The number of turns all sorts of things run out... trade deals, truces, deals, spy ops, promises etc etc. It's so annoying that this info is not available!
I often miss rumours (not that it usually makes much difference), but I'd like a button to see a history of rumours.
Why can't it show luxs you're getting from other civs in deals with a little number (separate from the number you're getting) that tells you how many turns it is until the last one runs out?
I'm more concerned by what's missing than what's a couple of extra clicks away. Let's get the missing info up before any tidy up (it's not that I don't think it needs it, it's just that info we don't have, imho, is more important).

 

[Leyrann]

First one: Where can you see if you have a duplicate copy and that it is yours versus one for which you have traded or are getting from a CS? That can make a difference. Unless that was patched, I only see that ability in CQUI.

EDIT: Again, just because you may not use the feature doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. There are plenty of features I haven't used through the years in Civ, but they were there for someone else at least.

Duplicate copies appear as a number in the box with the luxery resource icon. As for duplicate copies from trade, they don't appear because trade deals last 30 turns, so you lose them before your next deal ends. Can't trade away what you're getting in a trade.

The game has a lot of unnessesary clicks, some interfaces should really just be spliced together.

Where?

Why does checking my opponents progress require flipping through 5 seperate victory screens?

It doesn't though? You have a "victory progress" screen which tells you who is ahead, and if you wanna know details, you can click on the victory type and see everything about it. I do not see how they could possibly fit it in one screen, so this is the optimal solution.

Why do I have 4 seperate city interfaces? Rather than just one like in civ 4 and 5? Why do I have to go to a whole different menu to view City Details?

Because you're not looking at all things at the same time, so this greatly reduces clutter. In IV and V you had everything in one screen. I don't know about you, but I'm always struggling with selecting my next build in IV because it's so crammed. In VI you just click on the city once, and then click on 1. Buy land 2. Change production 3. Change worked tiles, 4. Buy stuff or 5. City details. Compare with V: While in V you can immediately buy tiles or change citizens, you still need to press that button for selecting production or buying stuff (typically the most important things), you have a smaller list for production things to work with because everything needs to fit, which means more scrolling, and on top of that Civ VI allows you to swap between cities very easily, which was very much not so in either 4 or 5 (you could go through a list but you couldn't click on any nearby city) and on top of that if you are in a menu, you can still do that, and you are automatically in that city's menu. It works a lot smoother than either IV or V.

I do guess that merging "buy tile" and "work tile" could be one menu though.

EDIT: And one more thing, in V a lot of space was also taken up by that menu at the right, which showed buildings, wonders, specialists, etc. They're nicely put in each of their own places in VI: Specialists are in the "worked citizens" menu, where they belong, while buildings are easily visible from which buildings you already have, as districts mean you automatically have them sorted nicely, and wonders are visible on the map anyways because they take up tiles.

My biggest personal gripe: Why can't I turn of the animation of menu's? It makes navigation so slooow to have it slide in every time.

What animation? I honestly haven't noticed any animations, so they can't be that long.

Trade proposal doesnt show luxes you are receiving from other civs through trade already (AI often offer a lux another civ is already trading you)

The rumour system is info you get quickly and cant view again. It should not be an alternate to notifications. Thats poor design.

Re: CS notification. Why not bunch them in one notification with a bullet point list in the pull out info. That way all the info is one place and you dont have to work through rught clicking 6 notifications and opening them one at a time. Again an example of poor design making my use of the game more tedious.

AI typically don't offer me any luxeries at all, so that's already one difference. Typically they want my luxeries but I don't take theirs because I consider them too expensive. But the same thing holds true - you may have it now, but in a while you don't anymore.

As for rumours, you actually can view them again. In the leader screen you can see all rumours from that civilization.

A bullet point list is, I would argue, not really something that you could fit in the lower right corner. It would look super ugly, at least. Then again, if you prefer something ugly over right clicking a few times, maybe...

 

[c4c6]

How do you keep track of cities though? Doesn't this mean that, if you use a build queue, you have to check every few turns wheter a city has finished it's current item to then select the correct new one? It sounds like more tedious than no build queue to me...

In civgames I HATE it to find out that last turn or some turns ago I wanted to make something, but forgot or used another obscure way to omit ... on the other hand it feels _very tedious_ to check every few turns (i.e. worst case: every turn ) all cities ...
So I modified in civ4 the CvEventManager.py (CvUtil etc.) to implement a general system of sending myself messages (deliver N turns from now: FREE TEXT) on such occasions and manage that those reminders also work when saving and resuming the game a few days later ...

As civ6 shall become the "easiest modable version" 'til now, I look forward to upps, do it again ...

 

[jbavon]

AI typically don't offer me any luxeries at all, so that's already one difference. Typically they want my luxeries but I don't take theirs because I consider them too expensive. But the same thing holds true - you may have it now, but in a while you don't anymore.

As for rumours, you actually can view them again. In the leader screen you can see all rumours from that civilization.

A bullet point list is, I would argue, not really something that you could fit in the lower right corner. It would look super ugly, at least. Then again, if you prefer something ugly over right clicking a few times, maybe...

1) Good for you. But apparently a lot of people don't agree with you and have a problem with it. Just acknowledge it.

2) I dont want to click to the diplomacy window and go through all the leaders to find what should be put in one place.

3) A 'super ugly' solution:

Well it might be. But its a lot better than what we have now. Also take a look at those sweet, sweet war icons which you can read at a glance. The Civ6 solution is very poor in comparison.

 

[Leyrann]

1) Good for you. But apparently a lot of people don't agree with you and have a problem with it. Just acknowledge it.

2) I dont want to click to the diplomacy window and go through all the leaders to find what should be put in one place.

3) A 'super ugly' solution:

Well it might be. But its a lot better than what we have now. Also take a look at those sweet, sweet war icons which you can read at a glance. The Civ6 solution is very poor in comparison.

1. Can you please reply on the content? I'm looking for a discussion, not a bunch of people stating their opinion and walking away (which is what you seem to want) or a fight (which is what you're trying to start).

2. If you don't even know what leader the rumour is about, why are you looking for it?

3. Note that in Civ VI the notifications are a lot smaller than in Civ V. That's what would make it an ugly solution. Notifications in Civ VI are never more than two, three lines.