Liberalism: Which free tech?

[DMOC]

My favorite tech is Nationalism, by the way. This is mainly due to the Taj Mahal and Nationhood benefit, and also because on immortal, it's really hard to put off Liberalism for long unless you've been extremely lucky.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

TheMeinTeam:

I like doing MT occasoinally from Lib, but you need Nationalism for that, and getting or trading for Nationalism before MT isn't as easy as getting Chemistry, for some reason.

My usual scenario in beelining MT is to use Lib to get Nationalism, then tech MT manually (or with Great Artist help).

I've been forced to self-research it lately (probably means I should move up to immortal full-time, but I'm enjoying emp blowouts for now ). However, the AI does seem to like it. Sometimes they'll get it before education, which is pretty nice.

The hard thing about chemistry is its engineering pre-req. I like bulbing down liberalism path, so the typical situation looks like:

I have lib. I only have metal casting, not machinery. I want to attack someone (don't I always?!), and I want to use a renaissance unit ASAP.

To get chemistry, I'd have to trade for machinery engineering, then either bulb it (assuming I have PP, not likely) or trade for that too, all before lib!

It's often doable to get steel anyway. Especially if you are doing well enough that you're trading philo + a small tech for machinery or something (or CS even better), and the AIs aren't set to win Lib, you can often self research chem and take steel with lib. I can't envision too many scenarios where that's actually EASIER or FASTER than MT, but that doesn't mean MT is better. Cannon can do collateral and have the nice double-usefulness of bombardment too (cuirassers need spies typically, or low defense perimeter cities).

The bigger the target, the more I'd lean toward rifles or cannon...but usually big targets don't sit around and wait!

 

[Charonicus]

I just bulbed my way to liberalism for the first time ever. I was lucky enough to hit a run of great scientists. I took Nationalism as I'm aiming for a cultural victory and early access to the Hermitage and a headstart on the Taj was attractive. I got my 15 turn GA from the Taj+Mausoleum and another one from a Great Person immediately after. ^^ I'll have to try it again at some point, gave me plenty of trading fodder.

 

[mirthadir]

My favorites:

1. Nationalism. If I've gone the CS route to lib this is a gimme and I like the Taj/drafting. Also pushes me closer to MT which is ownage once I pillage enemy metal.
2. DR. Going out the religious line is less effective, unless you have a serious RE going. In which case the sooner you get DR, the less likely the AI is to self research thus giving you a controlled religion (mostly useful for happy and culture purposes) and the easier it is to nab the DR wonders. This is also the strongest shot for culture purposes if you are running spec artists.
3. Astro; it is not uncommon to meet more advanced civs while beelining lib (i.e. you killed one of your neighbors so you tech slower than the mono-religious block far away); trading out to optics isn't too bad nor is getting calender. Also if you are running TGL to the hilt this line is highly lucrative before swapping back into the lib line.
4. Sci Method. Requires astro. The best shot to do this requires trade. You need to run out the bottom path to optics without opening up paper or philo, bulb astro, then trade back for lib prereqs. TGL, Mids, caste (maybe Philo) make this viable if risky on immort. I cannot speak for diety.
5. Printing press - cottage ownage. Great for going after Demo/SoL; with a an extra bulb you can snag nat and go out just a bit further.
6. Chemistry/Steel. Yes you can trade for gunpowder and chemistry, but it is iffy. Further, what would be the strength of the chemistry shot - early privateers - is lost because you need astro (which is better to research first) and if you do have astro you can go Sci Method. Looking to supercharge WS hammer counts and go for cannon is a bit better, but you are still looking at a timeliness issue.
7. MT - easy war if you can get it soon enough. Hitting MT when a target still lacks pike and musket is a gimme.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

1. steel(doable if no great techer around, or if the techer bogged down into some wars - though even that way, hard). It's the new economics(see 6).
2. astro; trade routes with the backwards isolated civ. who's still in descentralization like you, all to be milked by yourself;
3. MT/nat - usually nat, since the diff. in beakers is not significant, and taj is always something worth getting en route for war;
4. Constitution - that usually means I have no plan and playing crappy;
5. PP - when I have enough ep to see everyone's researching nat(do I ever have ep... got it a couple of times lacking marble and everyone being on nat. and me seeing it - but that was only twice when the gw poped two gspies at low odds);
6. my old time fav. - economics - the gm pays for cr mace upgrade to rifle; did it so many times I got bored. Worst of all, it always works...
7. bio/communism(honestly because I could... if the tech lead is that good, it's usually better to start another game).

 

[CivSetä]

Lately I have always chosen different tech. In my last immortal game with friendly neigbours (who were all warring against pagans) I was able to get physics. If I start isolated, astronomy is usually the best choice. Usually I search for something to sell, and then everything will do.

My all-time favourite (on immortal) is getting Steam power while playing Dutch. That was very close, I won by 1 turn (thanks to GW I had enough EP to see what Hyana was doing). I had to micromanage and starve every city to run enough scientists, but it was definitely worth it.

 

[Tephros]

I play huge, emperor maps, most often hemispheres or fractal. The only times I don't do astronomy is when I'm on a pangea map or nobody overseas will trade with me. It's usually the most expensive one, though in the aforementioned conditions I do MT, which is equally expensive. The intercontinental trade usually makes a significant difference in my research. In addition to better trade routes, I usually get the rest of the resources I didn't have via trade, and then get a hefty trade imbalance in my favor by selling horsehockey surplus resources like sheep overseas for a dozen gold per turn or more. Then I get chemistry and ravage the world with privateers.

Biology would be better if you had a huge and certain tech lead - but I don't like to play on low difficulty levels and I never have that kind of lead on emperor.

 

[Bed]

i almost always take nationalism (taj (to switch civic without lost revolution turns) + nation civic to use with rifle)
If i have no marble or if nationalism is already in the hand of some AI i can choose astronomy (because it cost lots of beaker and can be traded)

In high levels of difficulty it's already very hard to achieve lib first so i highly doubt you can fill prerequesites for radio or other advanced techs

 

[MkLh]

Biology would be better if you had a huge and certain tech lead - but I don't like to play on low difficulty levels and I never have that kind of lead on emperor.

Biology doesn't necessary need that huge of a tech lead, since almost all its prerequisites can be bulbed.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@Tephros:

For Biology sling, the key is to produce a huge amount of Great Scientists (more than the 3 or 4 needed for Liberalism) because prerequisites are on that bulb path... philo leaders have an edge on this (oh! a great sinergy! )

Cheers,

Raskolnikov

edit: somehow i didn't see MkLh's post...

 

[Dirk1302]

On immortal it's often steel followed by a push against some one. On deity it's nationalism 80% of the time by force, sometimes astro is doable and one time i got to steel anyway.

Biology is out on deity but i'd be fun to try it on immortal sometime, that might be doable in some games. I remember getting physics once from lib on immortal nice free GS but in itself physics doesn't help that much. I did use airships in a subsequent war but i didn't really need them as i had cannons shortly after.

 

[Tephros]

@Tephros:

For Biology sling, the key is to produce a huge amount of Great Scientists (more than the 3 or 4 needed for Liberalism) because prerequisites are on that bulb path... philo leaders have an edge on this (oh! a great sinergy! )

Cheers,

Raskolnikov

edit: somehow i didn't see MkLh's post...

Well that might explain it. Philosophical is the only trait I have never played with, though I don't imagine I would hate it as much as protective. Probably should do that if I hope to move up to immortal games.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi Tephros,

you are right...philo is more and more usefull when moving up in difficulty (of course some insane people make immortal SGs without GPs ). Also keep in mind that is not what you do every game... Dirk and Snowlywhite nicely summed up the options.

Cheers,

Raskolnikov

 

[Rusten]

You don't need PHI for the biology slingshot. It clearly helps, but as long as you have a high food city and spiritual for max CS/pacifism usage you'll be getting a ton of GPP anyway. I did it with Hatty in a game here somewhere although it should be noted that the map was very generous.

(of course some insane people make immortal SGs without GPs ).

Nutters!

 

[Fierabras]

I have to agree with TMIT here. Early cuirassiers are great for fast wars, especially against longbowmen. With enough cuirassiers you don't need any siege units. Nationalism from Liberalism, Taj Mahal for golden age and fast-tech MT, is my preferred strategy lately.