Lifespans

DirtyFinger

Prince
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How long do the various races of Erebus life ?
And how long do the leaders live and how does a game turn translate to years ?
Are all leaders near immortal, even the ones that are clearly of basic human (or even orcish) race ?

Or do you think it's better not to think about stuff like that in order to not destroy our illusion of a "realistic fantasy" setting ? :D
 
Well, since i'm reading the whole lore section at the moment I might as well answer that for you

Cassiel has told Sabathiel that a man can reach the age of 100 rather than that of 300, so their lifespans might be similiar to ours. The first men and women (including Os-Gabella) were immortal, as in having a pretty much infinite lifespan unless they were killed. Each generation thereafter had a slightly shorter lifespan.

First generation dwarves were also immortal, and slightly degenerated over time. They still have longer lives than humans.

Elves are still childs at their forties, and can live for a very long time. I don't think they are immortal though, but a good thousands of years doesn't seem too unrealistic, since some elves are remnants from the Age of Magic.
 
...The first men and women (including Os-Gabella) were immortal, as in having a pretty much infinite lifespan unless they were killed. Each generation thereafter had a slightly shorter lifespan...

Correction. The VERY first man and woman (Os-Gabella and Nemed) are completely immortal. It's not an infinite lifespan unless killed, because they can't be killed. It's a guess, but the next few generations may have had the "immortal unless killed" rule, as well... this being Erebus, odds are something killed them, so don't expect they're still around. Other than that, a good summary.
 
Os-Gabella is a true immortal, unable to die or even physically age so long as the world exists. She is older than anyone but the gods themselves, older even than the archangels. I don't know how long this is, but it could be millions of years.


Sabathiel, Cassiel, Basium, and Hyborem are ancient, dating back to the godswar. They are at least a few thousand years old. Hyborem is the youngest archangel, as he was made from a corrupted reflection of Cernunnos late in the war. Cassiel and Basium have fallen, and so are now mortal at least in the sense that they can be killed. I don't think they age are are prone to any diseases though.


Man was meant to be immortal, but thanks to Gabella's rebellion they are descended from the soulless, mortal second wife of Nemed and have inherited her physical mortality along with his spiritual immortality. The first generations of man were extremely long lived, perhaps even living tens of thousands of years. Their lifespans have gradually diminished over time, and are now no longer than they are in the real world. I suspect that in the Age of Magic men may still have lived a few centuries on average (at least those of the upper classes), but this dramatically decreased in the Age of Ice. Kylorin himself was given eternal youth by Ceridwen, so he is essentially immortal.


The Elves are descended from men who in the Age of Dragons came to be very close to Sucellus, then God of Nature. They seem to have kept the longevity of early man better than men have. They seem to be essentially immortal much like the archangels, but they are no harder to kill violently than a human and are quite vulnerable to diseases. They tend to have batter sanitation than humans, and so don't have the same immunities so a simple cold or flu is often lethal if medicine is unavailable.

Faeryl Viconia and Arendel Phaedra were both alive in the Age of Magic, and may even date back to late in the Age of Dragons. They are thus millennia old. Yvain is as old as they are, but he was retconned into being a Treant instead of an Elf because Kael wanted to borrow some warhammer graphics.


The Aifons were humans that grew close to Danalin, and become amphibious. I suspect their lifespans were close to that of the Elves, and that the two races were rather close. However, they are all dead now, and no one even really knows where their souls went. This is a great mystery associated with Danalin choosing to go to sleep, and with the creation of the Overlords.


Perpentach's body isn't that old, because he transfers his mind to a new one whenever it gets old. His mind dates back to the Age of Magic, and is likely around thousand years old.


Capria was born late in the Age of Magic, and spent her childhood fighting her way out of hell, where her body was but a manifestation of her mind and spirit and so did not age except through growing more emotionally mature. She would have physically been in her late teens when she emerged around 400 years later, but has all the experience of one with such a long life. She should have stared aging naturally and at a normal rate after that, yet she still seems relatively young at a point that should probably be about 300 years later. This seems like it may be an inconsistency, but maybe 300 years old is only middle aged for someone from the undiminished royal line of the pre-fall Bannor.


The Orks probably live about as long as modern humans, or possibly as long as men in the Age of Magic. They are descended from those who fell with Bhall at the cusp between the Ages of Magic and Ice, mostly from the Bannor. In Kael's D&D game, Orthus was friends with the Bannor king of Braduk before the fall. Orks apparently look pretty much human when they are young, and grow more monstrous with age. Sheelba is still quite young.


The Dwarves are said to have been crafted by Keldon Ki in the Age of Magic, and given life by Kilmorph. (I have my doubts about this, as it seems to imply that they have no souls and there is evidence that they do have them. I tend to think this may be a myth or possibly only an allegory that humans have interpreted as being their sincere belief. They may just men men who like the elves grew close to their god and were changed.) It is said that the first generation of Dwarves (which include Bambur) are immortal, but that their lifespans get shorter with each generation. This is a lot like humanity, but their lifespans seem to be shrinking faster. I suspect that dwarves still live a little longer than men, but that won't last long.


I tend to think that the Khazad rulers may be close to around 120 years old, and considered middle aged. Their grandchildren probably won't live that long though.

The Luchuirp leaders seem younger, in fact I think Beeri might have still been considered a child (which may mean teens or 20s) when he was captured by the Baleraphs. Garrim would be a little older.


Ethne was fairly young, probably in her late 20s or early 30s.

Einion is considered ancient, but apparently he was born in the Age of Rebirth. He may be close to a hundred years old. I would rather think he was actually born in the last years of the Age of Magic to a noble Elohim family and is thus around 500 years old, since that would mean he has personally seen his people loose their holy sites and should have a greater desire to get them back.

I picture Decius as a man in his 30s, or possibly late 20s when he first appears in the scenarios and perhaps his 40s by the end. He is from one of the most noble Bannor lineages, so his father who is probably at least 80 is still strong enough to lead his forces into combat.


Rhoanna and Tasunke would be in their late teens when they first came to power, but likely in their 30s by the time of many of the important events that happen to them.

Cardith Lorda is the youngest ruler, but he is not as young as he appears. He stopped physically aging when Eurabatres found and merged with him, around 8 years old, and has wisdom beyond his years. He is essentially immortal, but may begin aging like normal when Eurabatres gets a body of his own.

Varn Gossam is probably at least 500 years old. He was either born in the underworld or kidnapped by Laroth with his parents while still quite young. That would have probably been late in the Age of Magic, after Kylorin killed Laroth but before the Fire Rain. He probably spent at least 300 years in the Shadowed Vale as a prince and subject of his brother Haerlond before meeting Auric, and had wandered the surface for years before finding the Mirror of Heaven and founding the Empyrean. He and the other Once Elves knew nothing of the Age of Ice, the Elven Civil War, or even of the Summer and Winter Queens.


Auric was around 16 year old when he met Varn Gossam, but probably at least 20 when he began to lead the Illians as the reincarnation of their god. By the time of his death, he has either aged to be at least in his 70s or the stress of his ascension took its toll on him and made him seem much older than he really was. When his soul reaches the underworld it is the spirit of a tired old man.


Valledia and Dain are probably both middle ages, with Dain being a little older. Dain has decades of experience in magic and Valledia in politics and subterfuge.


Keeyln physically matures into her twenties by the end of the tale, but mentally stays around age 6.


Hannah left the ship of her adopted father at age 15 and soon led a mutiny against her next captain. I picture her as being a powerful despot of the largest ever unified fleet of Lanun pirates before she turns 20. She is a chosen one of the overlords, so the sea itself may seem to bend to her will. No one likes her, but they are too afraid to complain.

I tend to think that Falamar probably became renowned for his bravery and skill with the ladies while still a teenager, and was likely elected captain in his early 20s without having to use any coercion to gain the position. He was likely close to 30 by the events events of the scenarios.

Tebryn Arbandi is a dead patrian archmage, who has been brought back and will stay alive so long as he remains in Ceridwen's good graces. He has inscribed a resurrection rune of Abashi's forehead, so he cannot die until someone dispels that, which for anyone but Ceridwen would require slaying the dragon.
 
Cardith Lorda is the youngest ruler, but he is not as young as he appears. He stopped physically aging when Eurabatres found and merged with him, around 8 years old, and has wisdom beyond his years. He is essentially immortal, but may begin aging like normal when Eurabatres gets a body of his own.

I keep hearing that Cardith Lorda merged with Eurabatres, doesn't that imply that their individual minds would have fused to one sentience? That doesn't seem to be the case, isn't Eurabatres in effect possessing Cardith Lorda? Or is it somewhere in between, with only the risk that they may fuse irreparably? What exactly is the relationship between the divine spark, the ego, and cognitive faculties?

And to keep this rather on track... After 14 minutes of musing on the subject I have come to a conclusion, that there is a direct connection between lifespans and divine sparks. That somehow the amount of soul an individual has a direct influence how long they will be able to live. And that after each generation the quality of soul decreases.

I can even think of a good way to verify that claim. If we can find out if Keeyln has the life span of an Patrian commoner, rather than a modern day commoner then it shows that life spans are a product of soul count rather than biological processes.

P.S. Isn't Eurabatres a female?
 
I'd imagine that the relationship is something like that between a Tok'ra symbiote and its host, not like demonic or Gua'uld possession.

Eurabatres would never force the boy to do anything he really did not want to do. Each would the the other's closest friend and adviser. The Dragon probably chose Cardith because his natural personality was very close to his own, and in the process of spending so much time together inhabiting the same body would have made two personalities grow even more alike. The boy is in charge most of the time, but when decisive or harsh action is needed he would yield to the dragon. They would constantly confer with each other, whether consciously or not, and would never make an important decision without the consent of both minds.


The relationship between the divine spark, the ego, and the mind isn't really that clear. I'd thing they can each exist independently, but are much stronger together. It is strongly implied that a divine spark is necessary for contra-causal free will, but one without a soul can continue to make rational decisions and does not without an identity.

It is unclear whether any dragon has a divine spark, but Eurabatres is extremely intelligent.


No. It is unknown whether dragons are capable of reproduction, so they may very well not have physical gender. Eurabatres is however always described as at least grammatically male. The same is true for Acheron, while Abashi and Drifa are at least grammatically female.
 
...Eurabatres is however always described as at least grammatically male. The same is true for Acheron, while Abashi and Drifa are at least grammatically female.

Aye, though I confess that I have, on many occasions, referred to Eurabatres as female. I think the tendency to see Eurabatres as female might be a subconscious attempt to cast him as Cardith Lorda's "mother" figure... or something like that. Maybe the name sounds feminine. :dunno: The name, AFAIK, is of Kael's own creation; the nearest I could find on Wikipedia was [wiki]Eurybates[/wiki], but I think that's mere coincidence.
 
I'd guess that the first 2 letters are the Greek prefix meaning "good" or "true," so he is the good or true Rabatres. Not that I know what Rabatres means. It could mean dragon for all we know, and it isn't so much a name as simply a description saying he is the only real dragon and the other are poor copies.



I just googled it, and found that Eurabatres the name of someone on DeviantArt (where I think Kael got some of the artwork), who I think may be the same as the 18 year old girl from Turkey that it finds on MySpace.


More reasonably, I found that it is the name of an angel of the planet Venus. (The first place I found this was a Japanese-English dictionary, but I don't think it is in Japanese.) As Venus and Amathaon are both related to fertility, this fits. (Hmm...isn't the planet Venus the morning star, which may mean that Eurabatres is another name for Lucifer?)
 
I'd just as much assume since dragons don't have a gender (when Eurabatres entered Cardith Lorda) the androgynous Eurabatres would assume a feminine personality to sort of differentiate thine self from Cardith. Being two individuals sharing one body, I'd imagine that they would sort of become each others opposite and take opposing judgments on every situation then rationally talk with each other on the best course of action. Sort of like that comic strip Calvin and Hobbes.
I'd imagine that Cardith is probably one of the least biased personalities on Erebus with an uncanny ability to find compromises resolving the tensest of situations, though on the flip side Eurabatres i imagine is basically an intelligent weapon, thus prone to very draconian outbursts.

Incidentally, Do you suppose that if Perpentach tried to seize Cardith Lorda's body, there would be a psychic battle of epic proportions?
 
Hmm...quite possibly.

He would probably have a good change to take over one mind, but finding 2 minds would surprise them. Of course, Dragons in the game are magic immune so Cardith may share this immunity.


Kylorin is the only victim of Perpentach's Domination to resist it, and I tend to think that the copy of him in Perpentach's mind broke down the mental barriers he had helped him build, leaving the real Kylorin shocked and confused as to what had just happened.


Assuming that Perpentach could dominate Cardith and Eurabatres, I think the dragon might become the dominant voice in his head. The Golden One would not be so cooperative with an evil host, he would try to take control. He might just succeed.

It would be rather interesting if Cardith were dominated and then murdered, but then the copy of Eurabatres in Perpentach's head completed the rituals needed to restore his true form and then devoured the Clown King.
 
Well, back on the topic of racial-lifespans:
Dwarves: 130ish for an averarge, rarely exeding 150 for modern Dwarves, with older Dwarves living longer
"Gnomes" (Luichuirp)-A bit shorter then mainline Dwarves, but less likly to die in accidents or war (since they have golems)
Elves: about 830 for modern elves, with thos born since the Age of Ice ended rarely pasing 900, while elves born before the trauma of the Ice (Adre, Viconia, Amelancher) having a few more centuries of life (to about 2000)
Once Elves- A bit longer then normal Elves, due to being less effected by Age of Ice (So Varn could be about 600 with plenty of life left)
Humans-40 to 80, depending on nation and life style (Calabim Serf-40 years; Kurio City slicker-80 years), but in general Amurites and Elohim live longer (Magic and Monk-like lifes style, respectivly), and Doviello and Calabim living shorter lives
Bannor: 110-120 the modern, Elders like Capria and Donal could live to over 200 (Edit: about 100-110:blush:), with Capria being almost 100 be the time of the main events (I see the Bannor emerging 80 years or so ago)
Sidar-Until killed
Orcs-50-70 years
Lizardmen- 120 years
Angels/Demons- Until killed (which is dificult for some of them)

All facts expressed in this post are mostly opinio;)
Edit: Me, more mistakes then to fix right now-will fix tomorrow.
 
Bannor: 110-120 the modern, Elders like Capria and Donal could live to over 200, with Capria being almost 100 be the time of the main events (I see the Bannor emerging 80 years or so ago)
You'll note Capira is described as being on the old and frail side in her appearance in Donal Lugh's pedia story. Which I concieve is about 50-80 years in, putting her around 80-110 years, the (very) outer edges of plausibility to my mind.
 
Although I can't find it anymore, I pretty sure the Bannor pedia entry used to mention them being at their largest and strongest (although also most corrupt) around the 300th year of the age of rebirth. I'm pretty sure that would have to be before Auric devastated it and made the departure of Sabathiel known. As such, I assumed that both Blood of the Angels and the contemporaneous Lord of the Balors happen around 300 years after the original Bannor escape hell.


It could also be that Capria's quest succeeds in reviving the Bannor, and maybe even bringing Sabathiel back, so that they they are even stronger after recovering from Auric's nearly deadly blow. Of course, it would then seem they forgot their lesson and began decaying in exactly the same way as before.

Of course, that appears to have been removed from the lore, perhaps for continuity, so I guess it doesn't matter.
 
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