line of sight in bts

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oyzar

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How does line of sight in bts work? I find plenty of times that i can see much further than would be possible from the units i currently have...

I can see enemy cities 4-5 titles from my borders without problem without any reason to be able to see them(like hills or something). Is this a bug?
 
You can always see 1 square from any square you control (your culture, or a square your unit is on). If on a hill, your unit sees 2 squares. You can see 2 squares from any hill or mountain in your cultural borders. Forests and jungle block the ability to see 2 squares from hills and mountains. You can also see any hill or mountain within 2 squares as long as it is not blocked by a forest or jungle.

Then you have to take into account any sentry promoted units (+1 sight), and there is a tech that gives +1 sight on water ... I forget which it is, but I think it is astronomy.

Additionally, If your espionage is high enough, you can see enemy territory, and if you own a shrine and it is your state religion, you can see cities that have that religion. Both of these, however, seem inconsistent to me ... sometimes I can see when I have the shrine, sometimes not, and sometimes the Espionage sight is incomplete. Perhaps someone else knows more about the mechanics of this or if it is a bug.
 
Well there certainly isn't enough espionage involved nor does it have anything to do with religion...
 
The part about the shrine giving vision of enemy cities does not apply for BTS, due to the new espionage system.

The espionage only gives vision of enemy lands next to cities. Not completly sure about this, though it is what i´ve observed in my games.

If some one knows how the vision of enemy cities work in detail it will be nice to know ?
 
A few other notes: an oasis blocks line of sight the same way forest/jungle does, i.e. you can't see over it from a hill. I always forget this one because it makes no sense to me, but it's true.

I believe peaks can see over less-tall features like hills/forests/jungles/oases. You can't have a unit on a peak, but your cultural borders can include one. Someone correct me if I'm confused....

The way Sentry works has changed. It used to be, it acted as if you had a unit on each of the adjacent tiles. Thus standing next to a hill or peak would give you good vision. Now, it's calculated from where you stand, and it's blocked by terrain features as normal.

In your case, oyzar, I'm guessing it's espionage. City visibility doesn't take that much if they're not counter-spying, and just your miscellaneous "4 points + courthouses" can do it. I think that the distance and religion modifiers (that are applied, for example, if you ask a spy to do an active mission in that city) also apply to city visibility, so sometimes you can see into nearby cities but not more distant ones.

peace,
lilnev
 
Sorry about the wrong info on shrines ... truth is ... I haven't owned a shrine since I've owned BTS :)
 
Johan^^ said:
The part about the shrine giving vision of enemy cities does not apply for BTS, due to the new espionage system.
Click to expand...

oyzar said:
Well there certainly isn't enough espionage involved nor does it have anything to do with religion...
Click to expand...

religion is still related to line of sight in BtS, but indirectly. first of all, it was never the shrine, just the holy city. and yes, in BtS, line of sight is based on espionage not religion.

but, you qualify for a discount on all city-based spy activities (everything but demographics and see research) based on religion. if your state religion is not theirs, and it has your religion in it, you get a 25% or 15% discount for doing anything in that city. if you have the holy city, you get an additional 15% or 25% discount. i forget which is which, but the total is 40%. if you share the same religion but you have the holy city, you get just the 15% or 25% discount, again i forget which one that is.

so city visibility, and investigate city, is cheaper for cities with your religion when you own the holy city. but only because of the discount on espionage, so it's an indirect deal.
 
lilnev said:
A few other notes: an oasis blocks line of sight the same way forest/jungle does, i.e. you can't see over it from a hill. I always forget this one because it makes no sense to me, but it's true.
Click to expand...

not related to the OP but why does an oasis take 2 movement points, they're not that big that you can't walk around in 1 turn, graphically anyhow.
 
50_dollar_bag said:
not related to the OP but why does an oasis take 2 movement points, they're not that big that you can't walk around in 1 turn, graphically anyhow.
Click to expand...

Units tend to fall into the water, expecting it to be a mirage.
 
it's for modesty of course. there might be imaginary folks skinny-dipping in the imaginary water. the game is rated E so they have to keep them out of sight and give 'em time to get dressed in imaginary clothes and run away.
 
To get back to the original question, I think the line of sight has been changed in BtS. You can see further. Often if I put a scout near a city with a big fat cross I can see the city, which wouldnt be allowed in vanilla.
 
marius312 said:
To get back to the original question, I think the line of sight has been changed in BtS. You can see further. Often if I put a scout near a city with a big fat cross I can see the city, which wouldnt be allowed in vanilla.
Click to expand...

That city is on a hill. I think this was changed from vanilla, though I may be wrong. Not only can you see 2 squares from a hill or mountain, you can see a hill or mountain that is 2 squares away (as long as nothing blocks your view).
 
50_dollar_bag said:
Ok something kind of related to the OP, why can't scouts get sentry.

I've always thought that cultural radius should have something to do with LoS into enemy lands, could this be responsible?
Click to expand...

That's an excellent point. I think there should be a special set of promotions for scouts ... they are uber-weak anyway, so why not let them have their own promotions?

Maybe:

Scouting 1: +1 sight from hill tops
Scouting 2: +1 movement in forests, jungles, and hills
Scouting 3: +1 movement point, +1 sight
Scouting 4: +50% jungle, forest, hill defense, 75% battle avoidance when attacked.

Scouting 4 would be very powerful, but how often would a scout survive that long? The battle avoidance would allow the scout to go back to the last square it was on whenever attacked. With the mobility and cunning of a highly experienced scout, it should be able to see an attack coming and run away.
 
xanadux said:
That's an excellent point. I think there should be a special set of promotions for scouts ... they are uber-weak anyway, so why not let them have their own promotions?

Maybe:

Scouting 1: +1 sight from hill tops
Scouting 2: +1 movement in forests, jungles, and hills
Scouting 3: +1 movement point, +1 sight
Scouting 4: +50% jungle, forest, hill defense, 75% battle avoidance when attacked.

Scouting 4 would be very powerful, but how often would a scout survive that long? The battle avoidance would allow the scout to go back to the last square it was on whenever attacked. With the mobility and cunning of a highly experienced scout, it should be able to see an attack coming and run away.
Click to expand...

They definately could use a buff, your idea of a combined woodsman/guerilla line is good.
Perhaps even upgrading to spies.
A good one should even be able to remain invisible so perhaps having a 90% chance to remian invisible or some such.
 
Hi

The one thing I REALLY miss about line of sight from holy cities was in Vanilla and Watlords the holy city would let you suddenly see cities in areas you havent explored yet or had been built in places you had explored before the city was there but havent been back too since it was built so its not on your map yet.

Now in BtS even if you have enough spy points to use a city's line of sight you wont be able to use it until you get a unit within visual range of the city so it will show up on your map. In vanilla and warlords they would just show up automatically if they got your holy city's religion.

Kaytie
 
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