Lionised and Vilified
- Thread starter Cam_H
- Start date
Yeah - I think the roster's divided. As such, I'd suggest that you take the conservative pathway of no DoW but be prepared for invasion if the 'landscape' changes. Either that, or we vote - but I'd prefer to just get on with the game. 
Just to clarify the civics thing; you can't ask / trade / demand another tribe into a civic choice or faith that you're not in yourself.
Just to clarify the civics thing; you can't ask / trade / demand another tribe into a civic choice or faith that you're not in yourself.
Why's that? Having double-shrined York in our possession can hardly make us weaker, can it? Besides, we don't need new units to conquer it, so we could still build wealth everywhere. I think I'll change my vote from "whatever" to "yes, war please!".
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a few points:
1) check resource trades
2) Don't forget to trade techs to our vassals for gold or just gift them techs to get them to a point they can tech something useful. Cathy should tech Rep Parts and Rifling for us. Let's get Nappy teching something useful instead of a tech we already have - trade/gift him techs. Also, make sure our vassals are not trading with the enemies.
3) Munich needs to start windmills in expectation of Rep Parts. It has imbalanced food at the moment
4) War with Vicky now is tricky. We should easily win straight up but she could bribe Otto/HRE in on us which would be painful
I say that, with the exception of culture builds in Berlin, all cities build a combo of wealth/research to get to Medicine asap. Once we have Cereal setup we can start focusing on the end game - war/diplo.
5) Unless there is some wonder we feel we need, I say we just settle the GE in Berlin. Hamburg would probably be better from a research perspective, but the GE would add more culture.
6) Looks like several cities are setup for some good whippage of buildings. Whip them in and then start on wealth/research now.
So yeah, I'm up for no war at the moment and a more research focus for now. Let's stop building buildings and start pumping beakers. We might just trade Lib to Otto now to get Sci Med finished and some gold so we can start the next tech.
edit: Ultimately I think the quickest way to victory is to get Cereal up and running - and spread. War from there should be easy. We already dominate this game. Culture in Berlin and the Cereal requirement are the key stopping points, but should time well together.
1) check resource trades
2) Don't forget to trade techs to our vassals for gold or just gift them techs to get them to a point they can tech something useful. Cathy should tech Rep Parts and Rifling for us. Let's get Nappy teching something useful instead of a tech we already have - trade/gift him techs. Also, make sure our vassals are not trading with the enemies.
3) Munich needs to start windmills in expectation of Rep Parts. It has imbalanced food at the moment
4) War with Vicky now is tricky. We should easily win straight up but she could bribe Otto/HRE in on us which would be painful
I say that, with the exception of culture builds in Berlin, all cities build a combo of wealth/research to get to Medicine asap. Once we have Cereal setup we can start focusing on the end game - war/diplo.
5) Unless there is some wonder we feel we need, I say we just settle the GE in Berlin. Hamburg would probably be better from a research perspective, but the GE would add more culture.
6) Looks like several cities are setup for some good whippage of buildings. Whip them in and then start on wealth/research now.
So yeah, I'm up for no war at the moment and a more research focus for now. Let's stop building buildings and start pumping beakers. We might just trade Lib to Otto now to get Sci Med finished and some gold so we can start the next tech.
edit: Ultimately I think the quickest way to victory is to get Cereal up and running - and spread. War from there should be easy. We already dominate this game. Culture in Berlin and the Cereal requirement are the key stopping points, but should time well together.
vranasm
Deity
@L
will try the trades... (or do my best at least)
roster is the meaning of switching to caste immediately and I feel the same.. so last round of whips and switch?
I will definitely no war...even if it means around 8 turns turnset before the army is healed and in position to attack York.
I would like to finish those temples and forges though... but if we go caste it maybe would be better to switch wealth/research? hmmm ... a lot of things to think through.
I generally think we should pump up our beakers.
will try the trades... (or do my best at least)
roster is the meaning of switching to caste immediately and I feel the same.. so last round of whips and switch?
I will definitely no war...even if it means around 8 turns turnset before the army is healed and in position to attack York.
I would like to finish those temples and forges though... but if we go caste it maybe would be better to switch wealth/research? hmmm ... a lot of things to think through.
I generally think we should pump up our beakers.
pigswill
fly (one day)
The game is essentially won apart from completing the variants so let's finish the variants asap then finish the game however. No war atm.
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Well, if we are intent on getting a pagoda up in Berlin, we might wait a couple of turns on the switch. Get the Tao mish to Berlin. Whip temples in Stutt and Bremen (whip Lib into Temple in Bremen)
I think Berlin should not be running Merchants at the moment. We are really nerfing this city. Switch to food and hammers so we can get up things faster and grow. Whip Jew temple into synagogue.
With switch to caste, use Fish city to run tons of Merchants. There's so much food there unlike sucky Berlin. We might pop an Great Artist on the way, but we can just bomb Berlin with it. The odds are pretty high that we will get a GM among the next to GPs in Fish with all that food.
Honestly though, I think Berlin is fine culture wise without a pagoda. We can always pump Great Artists towards the end and just bomb it.
I think Berlin should not be running Merchants at the moment. We are really nerfing this city. Switch to food and hammers so we can get up things faster and grow. Whip Jew temple into synagogue.
With switch to caste, use Fish city to run tons of Merchants. There's so much food there unlike sucky Berlin. We might pop an Great Artist on the way, but we can just bomb Berlin with it. The odds are pretty high that we will get a GM among the next to GPs in Fish with all that food.
Honestly though, I think Berlin is fine culture wise without a pagoda. We can always pump Great Artists towards the end and just bomb it.
vranasm
Deity
I think we kind of agreed to finish synagogue and not hunt another cathedrals and I will stop building temples that are not jewish.
there is only the question of infra in new cities like rheims etc. we really need to finish jew temples, forges and CH's where they are not. and then we can slow build FP in Rheims, but that city has big potential on itself once it grows a bit back...
I think switch to caste at T0 is doable if I first check the whips in some cities.
there is only the question of infra in new cities like rheims etc. we really need to finish jew temples, forges and CH's where they are not. and then we can slow build FP in Rheims, but that city has big potential on itself once it grows a bit back...
I think switch to caste at T0 is doable if I first check the whips in some cities.
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yeah, i'm totally fine stopping the temple/pagoda thing...whip turn 0 and then go caste. but get the GPs in Fishy not Berlin - this city needs to grow back badly.
i don't care about FP on this map. Most cities should run wealth/research.
i don't care about FP on this map. Most cities should run wealth/research.
vranasm
Deity
guys I have to postpone the TS for 24 hours... will not have time for much civ today
vranasm
Deity
Round is played
The round as always starts with me trying to implement everything from the PPP phase.
First the GE is slept in capital. Then it's trading screens time.
Sully trade
Then Vicky trade
Cathy should research RP for us
We don't have economics and Astronomy so i leave Nappy and Gustav on those.
Not bad deal for stopping trades with Vicky and Sully
And last one
That should mean the AI's are kind of isolated now ;-)
After last round of whips, switch into caste
Hired 9 merchants in Frankfurt
Nappy wants some resource trade... I say why not
AP resolution... of course not!
aaand it fails
Synagogue home, why not build temple?
I made this trade
My reasoning was:
We really need the RP (I spammed a bit those windmills already ;-)). Liberalism we already gave away, Gunpowder Vicky already has so no danger.
And I send Cathy towards rifles of course
Had spare Jew mish
Nappy got us Economics
I didn't revolt into FM...
I didn't want to finish 1T before Biology so I played 11 turns...
T212 Biology home
and that's it
Gustav has Astro in 1T, Vicky is going Steam power after RP. HRE is going for Grens.
The round as always starts with me trying to implement everything from the PPP phase.
First the GE is slept in capital. Then it's trading screens time.
Sully trade
Spoiler :
Then Vicky trade
Spoiler :
Cathy should research RP for us
Spoiler :
We don't have economics and Astronomy so i leave Nappy and Gustav on those.
Not bad deal for stopping trades with Vicky and Sully
Spoiler :
And last one
Spoiler :
That should mean the AI's are kind of isolated now ;-)
After last round of whips, switch into caste
Spoiler :
Hired 9 merchants in Frankfurt
Spoiler :
Nappy wants some resource trade... I say why not
Spoiler :
AP resolution... of course not!
Spoiler :
aaand it fails
Spoiler :
Synagogue home, why not build temple?
Spoiler :
I made this trade
Spoiler :
My reasoning was:
We really need the RP (I spammed a bit those windmills already ;-)). Liberalism we already gave away, Gunpowder Vicky already has so no danger.
And I send Cathy towards rifles of course
Spoiler :
Had spare Jew mish
Spoiler :
Nappy got us Economics
Spoiler :
I didn't revolt into FM...
I didn't want to finish 1T before Biology so I played 11 turns...
T212 Biology home
Spoiler :
and that's it
Gustav has Astro in 1T, Vicky is going Steam power after RP. HRE is going for Grens.
Looking good.
A few things though :
- why let the French research something we already have?
Let's make them research constitution.
- maria Theresa has crabs (yeah, bad luck for her) and would trade it for gold (metal). oxford city is unhealthy, so...
suleiman is not happy with us. a good trade (economics for his gold and map for instance) could make things better.
- nappy has whales we could use better than he can. gems for whales could be good.
Any idea about a national park city?
A few things though :
- why let the French research something we already have?
Let's make them research constitution.
- maria Theresa has crabs (yeah, bad luck for her) and would trade it for gold (metal). oxford city is unhealthy, so...
suleiman is not happy with us. a good trade (economics for his gold and map for instance) could make things better.
- nappy has whales we could use better than he can. gems for whales could be good.
Any idea about a national park city?
Looks good.
Some comments: there are a good bunch of cities running wealth (good), whilst also running engineers (not so good). Better to run merchants to get the slider at 100% or scientists if we are already at that point.
At this rate, we're going to tech Refrigeration in about 37t; Berlin is going to take 52t to hit 20.000 culture. I think we should build a couple more culture buildings/build culture/run artist instead of engineer to get it done quicker. I'd hate to wait later when we have time to build now.
Cathy or Gustav can research Constitution > Corporation for us; I'd rather not tech it ourselves.
Also, is the Synagogue in Hamburg really necessary (ie, is it losing tiles?)
Some comments: there are a good bunch of cities running wealth (good), whilst also running engineers (not so good). Better to run merchants to get the slider at 100% or scientists if we are already at that point.
At this rate, we're going to tech Refrigeration in about 37t; Berlin is going to take 52t to hit 20.000 culture. I think we should build a couple more culture buildings/build culture/run artist instead of engineer to get it done quicker. I'd hate to wait later when we have time to build now.
Cathy or Gustav can research Constitution > Corporation for us; I'd rather not tech it ourselves.
Also, is the Synagogue in Hamburg really necessary (ie, is it losing tiles?)
vranasm
Deity
couple of answers
i checked nappy and didn't saw anything useful...so it's possible I just overlook something.
The synagogues gives 2 hammers, 2 happy and more culture in "wannabe" capital... so I thought it's worht it there.
Don't forget the "spread corp" part in the calculation too
Those Engs I didn't thought out carefully probably I thought it's better to run the eng then merchant (and was wrong at it probably, I am just used to running engs ;-))
I don't really think we can make our diplo situation "spectacularly good" since we already have 3 vassals (-3) I stocked up some trade embargos etc... i have the feeling totally "ignoring" Sully and Vicky as state policy is acceptable at this point of the game.
And honestly wouldn't feed our enemies with techs.
I agree I didn't do good job with resource trades though... next player should fix this. I had a lot of MM running with cities... now they will be more quiet.
i checked nappy and didn't saw anything useful...so it's possible I just overlook something.
The synagogues gives 2 hammers, 2 happy and more culture in "wannabe" capital... so I thought it's worht it there.
Don't forget the "spread corp" part in the calculation too
Those Engs I didn't thought out carefully probably
I thought it's better to run the eng then merchant (and was wrong at it probably, I am just used to running engs ;-))I don't really think we can make our diplo situation "spectacularly good" since we already have 3 vassals (-3) I stocked up some trade embargos etc... i have the feeling totally "ignoring" Sully and Vicky as state policy is acceptable at this point of the game.
And honestly wouldn't feed our enemies with techs.
I agree I didn't do good job with resource trades though... next player should fix this. I had a lot of MM running with cities... now they will be more quiet.
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Looks good, V. Good job on the trading. Only thing I would have done different is starve Frankfort even more running Merchants.
edit: I would put Cathy on the Constitution>Corp path after Rifling. She is the fastest techer of all our vassals. Trade her Econ or Sci Med for Rifling. We can gift or trade Nappy PP and Constitution and send him to Demo for us.
Hamburg really should have cottages on those riverside tiles now. It has plenty of food.
I think we can speed up Med>Fridge a bit with some tweaks. Run more scientists and maybe switch a city or 2 to building research instead of wealth. We have lots of gold and should get more.
Any reason we are holding onto that GE? I think Mining Inc. is pretty irrelevant here and I can't think of any wonders to rush. Holding onto it is losing out on those beakers. Settle it in Hamburg.
edit: I would put Cathy on the Constitution>Corp path after Rifling. She is the fastest techer of all our vassals. Trade her Econ or Sci Med for Rifling. We can gift or trade Nappy PP and Constitution and send him to Demo for us.
Hamburg really should have cottages on those riverside tiles now. It has plenty of food.
I think we can speed up Med>Fridge a bit with some tweaks. Run more scientists and maybe switch a city or 2 to building research instead of wealth. We have lots of gold and should get more.
Any reason we are holding onto that GE? I think Mining Inc. is pretty irrelevant here and I can't think of any wonders to rush. Holding onto it is losing out on those beakers. Settle it in Hamburg.
vranasm
Deity
I tried but there was no reasonable gain... would die too much and the GPP didn't went up enough. This was the best compromise i found...
it went then something like 7 turns for dieing and 2T quicker GP...
I checked now with bio didn't look actually that much better :-d
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What you do is starve to max and then readjust at the starving point. Often you can take all the citizens off tiles and still have 3 or 4 turns before starving point. Then readjust. Overall you usually come out ahead. And yeah, although there is no dire urgency to get the GM out, the reason to do it as fast as possible is a) we may not get lucky b) we can get even more GPs out for whatever. A scientists would be good for part bulbing, although I don't do it usually at this stage it is all about shaving the turns,since we've already won the game.
BIO has really upped our ability to run more scientists. Some cities really like Munich really don't need to grow all that much. I think we can shave some turns off our techs. We should adjust everything to balance such that we can run 100% research - like we can now - at par or even at a bit of a deficit and then max beakers in anyway possible - mainly running scientists and maybe building more research in some cities.
BIO has really upped our ability to run more scientists. Some cities really like Munich really don't need to grow all that much. I think we can shave some turns off our techs. We should adjust everything to balance such that we can run 100% research - like we can now - at par or even at a bit of a deficit and then max beakers in anyway possible - mainly running scientists and maybe building more research in some cities.
Looks good. I'd still build the FP somewhere though, there's really no reason not to. It'll actually speed up research a bit, as then, as we're in the green already at 100% science, some cities could actually build research instead of wealth.
pigswill
fly (one day)
It may be worth building banks and saving GE for Wall Street in corp city (presumably Berlin).
We also have an option of building research.
Do we want to have a go at Physics for free GS? Suly may beat us to it but we can start next turn after picking up astro.
Worth putting Cat onto corporation, we can always direct her research to avoid any nasty corporate rivalry.
We also have an option of building research.
Do we want to have a go at Physics for free GS? Suly may beat us to it but we can start next turn after picking up astro.
Worth putting Cat onto corporation, we can always direct her research to avoid any nasty corporate rivalry.
