Ljosolfar exploit (!!)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by algonacy, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. algonacy

    algonacy Chieftain

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    This is not a complaint on my part, but merely an observation. I recently completed a game that was quite satisfying (as they all are), but won the game due to a game mechanic that was unintentional, but surely would be considered an exploit. I haven't seen this discussed, but sorry if it has.

    ** I am merely writing this out so other people will be aware of the potential exploit and can avoid it if they desire.**

    As the Ljosolfar (Thessa) I was moving along nicely. I was at the top of the leaderboard but behind the 2nd place Calabim in techs and they had a few nicer/stronger units than I did. [side discussion: the AI Calabim are pretty good at building vamps but suck at building vamp lords. They build way TOO MANY vamps and then only level them up a few small levels instead of building a few vamps and leveling them up drastically. - end side] Anyway, we went to war and after about 5-6 turns I saw them moving some of their big guns in and I was going to have trouble with them. So... I did my world spell and my ents fought for 3 turns. I did fine, but I knew that soon my ents would be gone and I'd be back to fighting Agares Beasts and other fell units that would make the fight difficult. So, I spoke with Alexis about a peace treaty. Not only did she offer peace but she offered to capitulate and she had 3 other civililzations vassalized under her already!!! That was game over. I said yes and the game ended the next turn with a domination. So, I started looking at the reason for this (I should have done this before saying yes to her capitulation) and realized that my power on the power meter had gone off the charts when the ents entered the game. So, as soon as they left the world, my power would reduce again and chances are that she would not have surrendered so easily. She was really afraid of me in my current state, but didn't realize the next turn I would be "normal" again.

    The short of this is that if you are the Ljosolfar and you do your world spell, I think it might be an exploit to ask the rest of the world to become your vassal during that time period. The AI just isn't good enough to allow for that factor in their decision process. :crazyeye:

    The second decision might be to never use that Vassal option, I normally play with it off but thought I would try it again this game, just as a variation.

    Not sure I've ever posted on this particular board, but wanted to throw out a huge thanks to the whole crew for the best mod I've ever played. I was really into the Double Your Pleasure mod for Civ3, but think this one is even better. THANKS!
     
  2. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

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    Maybe a Crusade-style No Diplo period following the worldspell would fix this. Call it "Ent Council" or something... no diplomacy because everything takes so long to discuss.
     
  3. arcticnightwolf

    arcticnightwolf Emperor

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    no diplomacy, because it takes ages to get trough so many ents ... (:)
     
  4. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    wow you found a big exploit there, good job :D
     
  5. BeefontheBone

    BeefontheBone Windbag of the sea

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    That, or units with a limited duration could add limited (if any) contribution to power ratings. On the flip side, though, if anyone was thinking of DoWing you, they'd be daft not to wait a turn or two for the Treants to revert to forests. I presume it'd be very difficult to count temporary units like the Treants for one but no the other. Plus you end up with a situation where there's a marginal benefit to summoning stuff every turn to make the AI think you're tougher than you really are.
     
  6. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Emperor

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    Don't you mean Entmoot?
     
  7. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

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    Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ...

    ...


    ...



    ...



    ...doooooooooooo.
     
  8. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Deity

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    That's a good point.
     
  9. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    Sounds like the simplest solution.
     
  10. rocklikeafool

    rocklikeafool Warmaster

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    I like it. Reminds me of LotR. "It takes a long time to say anything in old Entish, and we never say anything unless it takes a long time to say." :D It'd make sense really. If you summoned the Ents, you'd then have to get em to go back to the forests.
     
  11. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Emperor

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    I love the scene in the book where Pippin's at the Entmoot listening to the Ents chanting, and thinks to himself, "I wonder what the Entish is for yes or no" and then yawns.
     
  12. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    Actually, just turn off the Vassalization option. I do it for the simple reason that vassalization has no place in a fantasy scenario like this. I mean, how much sense would it make if Bannor vassalized Infernals ? Naah...
     
  13. MiKa523

    MiKa523 Nerdish by Nature

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    Couldn't agree more. And let's not even get started on the whole mana tributes thingy regarding vassals.
     
  14. rocklikeafool

    rocklikeafool Warmaster

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    I disagree. In certain circumstances (granted rare circumstances), the Bannor might vassilize the Infernals. Not really somethin you'd see anyone who always seems to take the 'Holier than thou' position like the Bannor, but there are certainly times in history when things more unfeasible than this has happened. But if you're so picky, design a mechanic (or watever you desire to call it) that prevents the Infernals from bein vassilized by the Bannor. (No Bannor overlords for the Infernals, huh? Damn. Hard luck on the Demons.) But watever, there's always solutions to these things.

    As for the whole mana thingy, yeah, there's already been pages and pages on that I'm sure. So, let's leave that alone.
     
  15. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    Eh ? What history ? There aren't demons and infernals in history.

    there is already one that we mentioned.
     
  16. rocklikeafool

    rocklikeafool Warmaster

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    I was referrin to times when mortal enemies, so to speak, vassalized. For example, there were several times when Muslim states vassalized Christian states and visaversa.
     

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