LK118 - France, Monarchy, OCC

[Methos]

IMO we should go ahead and chop the forests and get the cottages going. Waiting to long to build them will just cause our commerce to lack. I realize our health will drop but I believe research is more important.

Edit: I'd say just chop two of the forested grass tiles, that way we'll still have at least +1.

 

[LKendter]

Well don't forget one of the forest tiles is spice. If we chop 2 grasslands, we are trapping ourselves to eventually have 1 forest.

We really can't afford the health hit at this point. Not to mention the production hit. Those forests are adding a lot of desperately needed shields. If we want a ton of wonders, and GPP, we need shields, not cottages.

At the bare minimum, I won't agree with this until we build a granary to offset the lost of the health.

What is more valuable - a couple of cottages, or more specialists? A couple of specialists add just as much income IMHO, and actually are more valuable short-term. It is harder to say long term.
If nothing else, I don't feel this is a trivial issue. Are two cottages worth losing one or more wonders? I really would like to hear from other team members on this one.
I personally want to keep all the forests for the production.

 

[Jabah]

What is more valuable - a couple of cottages, or more specialists? A couple of specialists add just as much income IMHO, and actually are more valuable short-term. It is harder to say long term.
If nothing else, I don't feel this is a trivial issue. Are two cottages worth losing one or more wonders? I really would like to hear from other team members on this one.
I personally want to keep all the forests for the production.

When I started this discussion, I said we should think about it, but for latter action, right now, we need the forrests.

I am not sure about the comment between cottage or specialists. As long as we are not farming the square (which would be really stupid without access to water) forest and cottage are exactly the same food, I guess you mean more specialist because of health limit.
My thinking is if in the long term, with all the proper technologies and trades, health is still a problem (which is very likely) then keep the forrests and lumbermill and railroad them.

I think the real question (but for much latter) will be for hills:
- mined and rail or windmill [or cottage (if grass), but seems weak]

Jabah

Edit
After removing one for the spice, I also would try to keep the other 3 forrests instead of 2 in case we have uranium/oil/whatever under one of the last.

 

[LKendter]

I am not sure about the comment between cottage or specialists. As long as we are not farming the square (which would be really stupid without access to water) forest and cottage are exactly the same food, I guess you mean more specialist because of health limit.

By removing the forest we will take several shields away from Paris. In doing so, we will slow down wonder production. If we miss a wonder by one turn, look at the forest lost. How much progress toward another GP will be lost?
The faster we build wonders, the faster we can start merging in great people as our GPP rate will go up. If we build a 2 GPP wonder 5 turns earlier, then the next GP is that much closer.

So far the only clearly needed GP are for a single shrine, and an academy. Based on the comments about engineers I do have to rethink about merging them. How much will the free hammers help toward building the next wonder?

 

[Tatran]

Lurker's comment :
Paris lacks food to create enough specialists,so all the GPPs
have to come from wonders.You won't get any from a super
specialist.

 

[ucel]

Precheck: Oracle in 6, GP in 6, let's go!

1) 1160
2) 1120
3) 1080
4) 1040: Writing->Animal Husbandry. Maybe we have some horses?
5) 1000
6) 975
We got Oracle! Takek Metal casting from it. Started Granary so we can use some of our corn.
Moses constructed Kashi something, what allowed us to run 100% Sci again.

7) 950
Cathy wanted Open Borders. She's so cute...

8) 925
Found copper... in an island far far away...

9) 900
10) 875
Granary->Library. We have a time with forge and build colossus after lighthouse

11) 850
Husbandry->Sailing
We have no horses

12) 825
13) 800
14) 775
15) 750
Library->WB

16) 725
Sailing -> IW. Maybe we have some Iron?

17) 700
WB->WB

18) 675
19) 650
WB->Forge
Confucianism FIDAL

20) 625
21) 600

Quite boring turnset.
IW in 5, Forge in 2. Use a worker building gem mine to speed up a wonder - Colossus or Great Lighthouse

No map today , but the save.

 

[LKendter]

Use a worker building gem mine to speed up a wonder - Colossus or Great Lighthouse

Is this a reference to clearing forest? I really hope not, we need shields badly if we want to get a lot of wonders.


As for the wonder - grab Great Lighthouse first. The AI tends to build that a lot earlier. I have seen some really late Colossus builds.

Cathy wanted Open Borders. She's so cute...

Well at some point we *do* want these. Without open borders we can't get additional trade routes or have the shrine spread religion.
Of course, we need a better military before we do this.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (skip Feb 17 to Feb 21)
Methos
Ucel
Jabah (currently playing)
Maquis (on deck)

Remember 20 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
With this being an OCC, 10 turns seems like just to little.

Win target: Just win baby

 

[ucel]

Sorry, it was a jungle, forget it
Gem source in on the hill with the jungle - below the city borders.

 

[Maquis]

Just took a look at the save - one thing to note! Paris is at its limit on health, and we are building the forge! Unless we can get +1 health somewhere, this is going to hurt us. I think our growth will stall at this point, until we can get more health.

Might be a good idea to delay the forge build until we get the food/health to support it?

 

[ChrTh]

I agree Globe Theater is really important as it solves the happy face issue permanently.

lurker's comment:
If you set the game to OCC, is the 6 theatre requirement removed?

 

[Maquis]

Yes, the limits on all national wonders are removed. Catherals, Globe Theatre, Wall Street, etc can all be built.

 

[Jabah]

Got it.

I prefer having health problem and a forge than no forge if we want Wonders.

Will play my 20 within the next hour(s).

Jabah

 

[ucel]

Yes, the limits on all national wonders are removed. Catherals, Globe Theatre, Wall Street, etc can all be built.

All except cathedrals (and forbidden palace of course).

Paris is at its limit on health, and we are building the forge!

We were already at -1H and I have built granary to counter it. I don't know if we need to grow up to 8 for now...

For now we need 70 turns for city expand (and fish or two).

Turnset for wonder (without/with forge):
Colossus 11 / 9
Lighthouse 9 / 7
Pathenon 17 /15

So the forge seems to be worth of the stopping of growth.

 

[Methos]

Whoops, just realized it was 20 turns instead of 10. Oh well, my mistake.

Thinking more on the forests I see your point. We'll need the shields. Plus if we work some of the coastal waters we might be able to make up the lost commerce from so few cottages.

In just the early game each super specialist engineer will be making +3 hammers. The +2 normal plus an additional one from the +25% (forge) and +50% (beaucracy). Don't forget since we're Industrious the bonus from our trait also affects the hammers from the super specialist. Plus the future improvements like a factory and such.

 

[Jabah]

T0 - 600BC
Waiting for Iron Working, the worker is sent to mine the outside hills, just incase.
We have only 1 warrior defending, but can't build anything better.

T2 - 550BC
Paris forge->lighthouse (as we want great lighthouse before colossus?)

good news, Hinduism spreads to Moscow. (7archer, 1 settler, 1 worker)

T3 - 525BC
Hinduism in St Petersbourg as well. Cathy converts.

T4 - 500BC
Hinduism in rostov, a new city in our south.

T5 - 475BC
Iron working->hunting (2t) then Archery (4t) as
1. I want some better defence now
2. I don't want to trade later for those cheap techs (and get told of for doing so regarding the WFYABTA)
Paris Lighthouse -> great Lighthouse in 7t

Oh, and no Iron around as well (not in our island, but just opposite in the western one).

T7 - 425BC
Hunting-> Archery (2t).

T9 - 375BC
Archery -> Alphabet (14t) (deliberate between that and Math, but litterature is probably better sooner than later).

T10 - 350BC
We are 1st in culture and Cathy is 3rd.

T11 - 325BC
Meet Capac the Confuscianist, we are at (+1/-3) already.
He is quite far away to the East, but doesn't need to go throught Cathy to reach us, that is bad.

T12 - 300BC
Paris great Lighthouse->Archer

Meet grece as well (West of Russia), without religion.
Trade him gold for crabs (as we don't need 2 happy right now) and open border. Unfortunatly I did it afterward as I was not sure of our happy limit, so no (possible) happy fair initial trade bonus.

T13 - 275BC
Get a great prophete (75% chance afair) -> specialist

T14 - 250BC
Archer-> Colossus (8t)

T20 - 100BC
Alphabet next turn (need 1 more bulb), Colossus in 2t.

We could build barracks and a few units while waiting for Literature (9t) for great Library.

Jabah

Spoiler :

----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 91 (600 BC)

Turn 92 (575 BC)
Paris finishes: Forge
Hinduism has spread: Moscow (Russian Empire)
Judaism has spread: Novgorod (Russian Empire)

Turn 93 (550 BC)
Paris begins: Lighthouse
Hinduism has spread: St. Petersburg (Russian Empire)

Turn 94 (525 BC)
Hinduism has spread: Rostov (Russian Empire)

Turn 95 (500 BC)
Tech learned: Iron Working
Paris finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 96 (475 BC)
Research begun: Hunting
Paris begins: The Great Lighthouse

Turn 97 (450 BC)
Tech learned: Hunting

Turn 98 (425 BC)

Turn 99 (400 BC)
Tech learned: Archery

Turn 100 (375 BC)
Research begun: Alphabet

Turn 101 (350 BC)

Turn 102 (325 BC)
Contact made: Incan Empire
Paris finishes: The Great Lighthouse

Turn 103 (300 BC)
Paris begins: Archer
Contact made: Greek Empire
Zoroaster (Great Prophet) born in Paris

Turn 104 (275 BC)
Paris finishes: Archer

Turn 105 (250 BC)
Paris begins: The Colossus

Turn 106 (225 BC)

Turn 107 (200 BC)

Turn 108 (175 BC)

Turn 109 (150 BC)

Turn 110 (125 BC)

Turn 111 (100 BC)

 

[LKendter]

I love to see the fact we have a least one more Hindu nation in the world. The power of the early shrine proves itself again.

The reason I suggested Great Lighthouse before Colossus is because the AI usually builds the GL a lot sooner. The OOC game is about sheer number of wonders and super citizens. More wonders = more super citizens.

I am glad to see the first specialist already.

We could build barracks and a few units while waiting for Literature (9t) for great Library.

Sounds like a game plan to me. We don't want to be see as easy pickings.

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck) (skip Feb 17 to Feb 21)
Methos
Ucel
Jabah
Maquis (currently playing)

Remember 20 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
With this being an OCC, 10 turns seems like just to little.

Win target: Just win baby

 

[Maquis]

Ok, I got it. I'll play my 20 later tonight. Hopefully this will give LKender a chance to get a turnset in before the skip dates.

I'll try to get the rax built, then maybe a couple more units for defense...

 

[Maquis]

Ok, just the quick update.

Spoiler :

Turn 111 (100 BC)
Tech learned: Alphabet

Turn 112 (75 BC)
Research begun: Literature
Paris finishes: The Colossus
Hinduism has spread: Delphi (Greek Empire)

Turn 113 (50 BC)
Paris begins: Barracks

Turn 114 (25 BC)
Paris finishes: Barracks

Turn 115 (0 AD)
Paris begins: Archer
Paris finishes: Archer

Turn 116 (25 AD)
Paris begins: The Parthenon
Taoism founded in a distant land

Turn 117 (50 AD)
Tech learned: Literature

Turn 118 (75 AD)
Paris begins: The Great Library
Research begun: Mathematics

Turn 119 (100 AD)

Turn 120 (125 AD)

Turn 121 (150 AD)
Hinduism has spread: Thermopylae (Greek Empire)

Turn 122 (175 AD)
Paris grows: 8

Turn 123 (200 AD)

Turn 124 (225 AD)

Turn 125 (250 AD)
Tech learned: Mathematics

Turn 126 (275 AD)
Research begun: Music

Turn 127 (300 AD)
Hinduism has spread: Pharsalos (Greek Empire)

Turn 128 (325 AD)
Paris finishes: The Great Library

Turn 129 (350 AD)
Work Boat loses to: Barbarian Galley (2.00/2)

Turn 130 (375 AD)
Paris begins: Aqueduct
Ananda (Great Prophet) born in Paris

Turn 131 (400 AD)

A few highlights:

Hinduism spread to Alexander, and he converted.
Great Library built. - 2 scientist specialists added.
Parthanon was BIDAL.

Another GP - prophet born. Added as another specialist.

And here's the save.

 

[Jabah]

What was the tech situation after discovering Alpha?
No trading with the AIs?

Jabah