LK147 - world map, China

LKendter · Dec 24, 2012

I will start by saying this is mind boggling progress for 10 turns. :thumbsup:

We know own 27.8% of land. Gaining multiple percent in 10 turns is major progress on this map.

My instant thought on looking at the game is NO NEW WARS
Fighting 7 civs at once is insane. This isn't a supposed to be an AW game.

We are going to many directions at once, and I am overwhelmed by the situation.
The unreal progress has come with a price - 199 resistors. :eek:

Siberia - I so no reason not to finish Siberia including those to 2 Aztec cities. Coyotepec should be razed as it will get overwhelmed by Venezuelan culture. Once Siberia is done, we can make peace with the Aztecs. That overseas war gains us nothing.

France / Germany - CKS can make the decision on peace with. If it was my turn next I would sign peace just to give us time to clean up the rest. I would take Brest (Siberia) before peace no matter what just to wrap up Siberia.

Egypt - I like Greebley's plan, so let us kill them.
India / Persia - let us go island hopping and kill them.
Babylon - I count Adab near Spain, Karana (Madagascar), Taghaza (by Africa), and 5 in Siberia. Babylon has 8 cities per mapstat. I can't figure out what that troublesome island city is the Greebley is talking about.

Wiping these civs would help cities like Delhi with 12% unhappy due to motherland wars. I would also end flip risks. There is NO way I want to deal with flips behind our lines before I even consider war with Russia.

I am not going to comment on MM except please review cities such as Bombay (pop maxed) and pretty corrupt. Nalayh can hire civil engineer and greatly speed up the temple. Closing all the gaps in Siberia should be good for several more percentage points toward domination.

I would abandon Cherbourg. I agree this city is not defendable once the Russian war begins.

I would personally begin researching mass production. I think tanks would greatly help versus Russia. Are there any comments from the rest of the team?

ROSTER:
LKendter
Todd Marshall (just played) (skip to Jan 4)
Greebley (up)
CKS (on deck)

Greebley · Dec 24, 2012

Adab is the troublesome city. Next turn the boat can move north and see. If my memory is correct there is the city Adab, the square next to it has a Egyptian Rifle, the square next to that has 4? French (I think) units, including Rifle and a longbow.

I think i agree on the research. Note that just going to 100% science is still 16 turns so but if we convert taxmen to scientists it should drop. I think I tried to get the unis we need but check core cities to be sure.

I am surprised there is a city at max population. I tried to draft from every city over size 6. The solution is to draft there.

Again we don't want to remain so food heavy forever - I am thinking 6-8 turns.

CKS · Dec 25, 2012

I've got the save. I doubt if I'll get to it tomorrow (well, later today, now) but I should be able to start working on it Wednesday. I anticipate needing a lot of time to get up to speed.

I'd like to get to tanks quickly. I'll see what happens when we switch to scientists.

ToddMarshall · Dec 26, 2012

Even with all the tax men swapped to science, and research at 100%, it's still 13 turns to a tech we probably don't get first. I think I'd steal Mass Production, and Research Motor Tran. We have more Libraries going up, which should help that.

We do need to decide how long we're going to stay friends with Russia. I don't think it's a huge issue, but, if we don't cripple them before the next era, they will pull a free tech. Same fr Germany, though they are farther behind. The only annoying thing would be if Cathy suddenly had mechs to fight. Not that we wouldn't win, but it'd be slower progress.

Greebley · Dec 26, 2012

If we switch to scientists and start research, we could then do a trade rather than a steal. It could well be cheaper and definitely more reliable than a steal.

A steal was costing over 6700 and if we failed the first time, it would be 13k. Also after we fail once we have to wait several rounds to try again from the same AI or have reduced changes.

So I say research and buy is the way to go and not take the risk. We really want to start researching right away toward tanks when the tech is learned and buying it does this reliably.\

If the AI takes several turns then buying it may even be cheaper than the steal.

ToddMarshall · Dec 26, 2012

Is there an article that explains about reduced chances for a repeat steal and how long you need to wait? The articles I read made no mention of anything like this.

I supposed it would be cheaper to buy relatively speaking, bt that's because we'd have invested in it already.

I suppose it's not a big deal either way. Baring a UN loss, we've won the game, now we're just micromanaging how to win it most quickly and efficiently, so whatever we do won't meet with objections from me.

Greebley · Dec 26, 2012

I guess its planting a spy that can fail and require a wait. So if you are caught you can try to place a new one. If THAT fails then each round you have 1/3 chance of being able to try again. Otherwise you fail to place it no matter how many times you try.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97042

The odds are in our favor though - to have to wait would be unlucky.

ToddMarshall · Dec 26, 2012

That's the article I was most familiar with.

Again, I'm not upset with whatever route we go.

I was certainly wrong about a previous decision: wanting Republic on this map. Since we've not oscillated wars, the war weariness would be killing us. Monarchy was a good call.

War with the mongols, picking Monarchy, and capturing TGL were the big points in this game. Securing the UN should be the last real obstacle in our way.

CKS · Dec 28, 2012

Just a quick update, after playing most of one turn:
Swapping over to scientists gives us Mass Production in 11, so I start researching.

I've taken 7 towns; one autorazed.

I'm going to wipe out France, as they have only three, easily reachable cities left. They are behind mountains so I can't get them this turn, but they should be gone next turn. Germany won't give us anything for peace, so we'll see how it goes with them. As they are pretty clustered, I'm leaning toward eliminating them, too.

Siberia will take a few more turns because of all the forests; cities with culture aren't reachable in one turn.

Lee, you'll be happy to learn that Bombay was not at max population; it is on a river. I presume it had been drafted down to size 6.

I'm trying not to mess the island assaults up too much.

Greebley · Dec 28, 2012

CKS said:
I'm trying not to mess the island assaults up too much.

Ya, the islands are really tricky. If I were to do the turns over, I think I would have sent more normal units with the island attack force. We needed more Infantry and Artillery to be efficient.

CKS · Dec 29, 2012

I'm at 7 turns in. Things are going really well, and I'll probably finish tomorrow. The French, Babylonians, and Zulu are gone. I've landed on the final Egyptian/Indian island, next to the last refuge of the Persians. The Germans are down to 2 cities.

We have six turns left on a deal with the Russians where they give us 500+ gpt. I think we should attack them when that expires, but we could start earlier if we want to. I thought we had an 8 turn deal going, but misread things; that wasn't Russia. We could give up the cash and start when Egypt and India die.

Where do we want to go after that? Across to the Americas, after the Iroquois, or down to Australia? Siberia to America is probably logistically easier. If we have a decision before my turns end, I'll work towards getting transportation lined up.

ToddMarshall · Dec 29, 2012

I see no need to throw away the Russian money unless we have nothing else for units to do. I'd just rest up and whack them when the deals expire. I know they have infantry, but with the obscene number of cav armies and arty we have, that will not slow us down. They'll die before they get tanks even waiting, right?

As far as I understood, there was no reason to invade the Americas, that we'd hit domination without it. If that's the case, I'd expect we clear out Greenland, if we have not already, and that should be enough to win when boarders expand?

Can't look at the game obviously, but, honestly, it sounds like we should win on my turn if we can get resistances broken and boarders expanded, which means we don't even have to worry about a UN loss, because it will end before the Modern Age.

If we do want to take on overseas powers, I'd expect we want to leave Australia alone unless we can land a huge force at once. They will hit us with everything they have when we land on their "island"

The irros supposedly have a big military, they were still strong to us 17 turns ago, while everyone else was weak, so keep that in mind.

I'd probably for Venezuela if they don't yet have Rep Parts and bombers, otherwise, Argentina as the 2nd place civ. Hard to really say without seeing the save.

EDIT: Not suggesting we do this, but if this was an SP game, I think I'd let the Russians live. I think they are the only civ other than Mongolia and Australia, that never declared war on us.

LKendter · Dec 29, 2012

I don't know the exact point that we will hit domination. I know we have to control of of Europe / Africa / Asia plus a bit. We will want to get as many border pops as possible to close every gap there. The island hopping should get us close, just not sure how close.

CKS · Dec 29, 2012

We currently need 2600 more tiles. There are 1500 unowned tiles. Russia has 750 tiles. Egypt, Persia, India, and Germany together have about 100 more. Some of Russia's tiles are in Greenland, as are a bunch of the unowned tiles. The unclaimed tiles on our landmass will be acquired in border pops in the next 20 turns or so, or we can plant some settlers.

We are average vs Iroquois right now. They've got nearly 300 infantry and about 60 cavs.

Venezuela or Aztecs would probably give us enough tiles, but they are awkwardly located.

ToddMarshall · Dec 30, 2012

Well, then we do have to invade overseas, unless we've got a lot more tiles on our land mass waiting to be boarder popped than I'd expect. I guess it doesn't really matter where we go next.

I would expect Australia to be the toughest, just because they'll hit everything we unload with every spare unit the minute we drop them off. If we have lots of infantry armies, though, that might not be a problem.

Irros are indeed the easiest to reach, along with Australia. The infantry don't worry me, and 60 cavs don't either. I think they are marginally backwards, so no tanks or bombers anytime soon?

Doesn't seem to be one perfect answer. Pluses and minuses for every single civ, including Argentina, who might somehow get Fission in that time? (OK, I really doubt it), but otherwise would be the worst choice since they are really far and have top units. I'd say let Lee decide if he chimes in before you resume, as he's up next.

CKS · Dec 31, 2012

Short version: The current wars are wrapped up. Egypt, Babylon, Zulu, and Germany are gone. Persia and India will die one turn from now. We need a new target. Some territory gaps have been filled; others remain. We are the only ones who know mass production.

Spoiler :

2329 tiles to go; 41.3% owned

Handoff Notes:
I'm leaving the reorganization of our troops to the next player.

I'm leaving almost all units with movement, as my initial terror has turned into exhaustion. The exceptions are the armies near India and Persia, which have moved into place. India and Persia will both be eliminated next turn.

I've done a lot of chopping in Siberia; this is why the towns there have culture buildings and we've closed most of the gaps in our territory. I've done pretty much nothing in Africa. A serious plant-and-chop program there could supply a lot of shields to the non-desert towns. There are lots of gaps in our territory there.

We're about 50 towns from the max cities limit, so I've built some more towns to fill in gaps, but I haven't done much of this. We should do some more, but still leave the opportunity to build towns when we head overseas.

We know mass production. No one else does. We are 11 turns from tanks, but some micromanagement might bring it down a turn or two. We don't need to wait for tanks to start another war; we have about 30 cav armies.

Our towns are due for a round of serious MM as flip risks have dropped way down and resistance has dropped; the last few resistors can be suppressed easily.

There are three turns on the big cash deal with Russia. When it expires, we should cancel our other deals and take them. There is a smaller cash deal that runs longer, but I don't think we should wait, unless we decide to take on someone else (Iroquois?) first. In fact, I'd have no objection to taking out the Iroquois instead of the Russians; they should have enough tiles to get us to domination. Airbases would help with the transportation issues. I'm fine with whatever, though.

Greebley · Dec 31, 2012

Excellent progress. We finally have gotten rid of most flips which is great.

Your solution to Adab seems obvious in retrospect - I am glad you spotted it. I forgot both the bombers AND civ elimination.

If the next two players play 10 turns, there is a very good chance I won't be playing again.

Keep an eye on culture. We want to keep at least one civs culture 1/2 the leader, if the leader is at all close to 100k. I think Russia and Australia will be close to each other, but I don't know about the Americas. I don't think its a real threat, but I would hate to be wrong.

LKendter · Dec 31, 2012

Got it
Now to figure out where to get more tiles from...

I thing the "easy" war with Russian and infantry is the starting point.

ToddMarshall · Dec 31, 2012

Can't open the save, but it looks like we're almost done with this game. I knew when I handed off, we were fixing to be at this point, because the last of the counter attack threats was over as we had the choke point, and were about to start destroying Egypt on the flat, densely packed African continent where our artilery could be used in multiple offensives a turn. Taking Siberia was slow with all the forest in the way, but also proffitable, because every city seemed to have at least 1, often 2 seige units.

Yeah, I thought the map would look pretty much like this... when I got it. That it looks like this when Lee is getting it just shows what a tremendous job you two guys did.

I expect that I'll be able to play when Lee is done, unless he can finish it by tomorrow, just consider me on deck.

We'll see where it's at when I get it. If it looks like it's going to take the full 10 turns or more, I think I might just play half and let the next player finish it, because I think he's played the best this game and deserves it.

I won't hand it off for 2-3 turns though.

Lee, do me a favor at the end of your turn. I don't use mapstat, so tell me how many tiles we need to win when you hand off. Thanks.

LKendter · Dec 31, 2012

ToddMarshall said:
I expect that I'll be able to play when Lee is done, unless he can finish it by tomorrow, just consider me on deck.

I'll be lucky to get a decent start by tomorrow.

Finish? :crazyeye:

I don't recall the WM games so collapsing like this at the end!

I do plan to offer another once this ends. My latest mod swapping Iroquois to Sioux and moving them somewhat west is complete.

Still can't figure out a new civ to use Greece for...

LK147 - world map, China

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

Deity

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Maniac - Stellar Wingman

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Deity

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Maniac - Stellar Wingman

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

Deity

Maniac - Stellar Wingman

Deity

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Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

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