LK161, Australia, CCM 2.5, 180K goal

[LKendter]

I want to start LK162 up as soon as I am done with my final turn. With some luck, it shouldn't take to long. I'm planning to do things such as fortify all workers. Unless we need a rail to troops, it doesn't matter. I hope no new wars. We've agreed on Civ wide culture next. The question is level. Deity isn't viable IMO.

We need to snag some wonders giving settlers to get more culture stuff down earlier to double. We want to secure GB giving free culture. Depending on the Civ, we may need a rush to religion.
Our attack targets may be less about perfect land match, then stealing good wonders (settlers / free culture).
IIRC there is an early wonder giving free holy men. We want that one.


Monarchy was voted down by Greebley. Do we go with emperor?

 

[Greebley]

Emperor sounds good. For 500k culture, we currently can get to about 30 culture per city. If we got a great artist each turn and had 100 cities with 30 culture we would gain 2000+ 30*100=5000 culture a turn. Our current culture is 220k. Getting 5000 culture a turn would be 56 more turns, which I think is still before we reach space. Therefore even on Deity, I think 500k happens before space. (Our max culture per turn would be 512 * (30+) plus 1 or 2 Ga = 17360+ culture per turn - likely we could reach 2M culture before time ran out).

 

[Jersey Joe]

Looking at the current game, maybe we should declare war on the Lowlands (plus Israel?). Just to have enemies near-by and save having to railroad to the rest of Italy's territory.

Emperor is okay by me. Are we loading a new version of CCM, or sticking with the one we are currently using? Lee I recall that you tried out a patch provided by Civinator. Are we going to use that?

To reach the 500K mark we will still need to use the 2x post to Entertainers and Monks. We will have to spread them around to avoid having a city hitting the 180K mark.
e.g. based on out current game our culture in 1475AD is 220639 (162916 in 180K) and in 1445 it was 190142 (140164 in 180K). To reach 500K we need 279361 more culture. During the turns from 1445AD to 1475 AD all cities excluding 180K averaged generating 861 culture per turn add 59 culture per turn for 180K and we are earning about 920 culture per turn. 279361/920 = 304 more turns needed to reach 500K. We only have 245 turns left to play.
If we use 180K plus the Entertainer/Monk bonus we averaged 3389 culture per turn. 279361/3389 = 83 more turns which is do able. However, we could be near a Domination victory in less than 83 turns.

If we play as either Israel or India we have a monopoly on their religion. Israel is Scientific, that would reduce the cost of some learning buildings.
If we go beeline learning toward Religion, we might consider adopting Theology instead of Monarchy. Downside is that Theology is limited to 60% research. This is mitigated by Monasteries providing 50% research and 2 culture per turn and get a 2x bonus for Entertainers and Monks.

Edit: I was composing the above while Greebley was posting and did not see his post until after I posted. In principle Greebley and I agree. I just finish a little later.

 

[LKendter]

IIRC we tried theology. I would have to research the threads, but I recall hating something about it.

 

[Jersey Joe]

IIRC we tried theology. I would have to research the threads, but I recall hating something about it.

I think Civinator changed it since then.
I just checked the biq file to see what the differences are between Theocracy and Monarchy.
There are only 2 things different:
(1) Theocracy has a tile penalty, Monarchy does not. This is most likely one of the items that made Theocracy bad, and I keep forgetting about it .
(2) Theocracy gets a commerce bonus (like Republic), Monarchy does not. This is a plus for Theocracy, but I do not think it is enough to offset the tile penalty. However, if we have only Grasslands and flood plains to build on with no shields, the lack of shields could be partially offset by using Theocracy's extra commerce to rush build (of course looking for a different starting site is a better solution).

Forget I mentioned adopting Theology instead of Monarchy.

I think it is Stonehenge that gives priests early.

 

[LKendter]

I have no idea if we have the latest version. I recall download a patch, but that was for the version we are running.

 

[Elephantium]

Tile penalty hurts. It pays to switch away from govts in that category ASAP

 

[Greebley]

The real difference in our analysis is that in our game we haven't bought cities up to full culture. We are therefore a good bit lower than our potential culture per turn.

I think Civinator stated that there was (going to be?) a change to disallow the 4x culture that we had to work around in 180K. Does that version exist yet? If we buy all culture buildings will artists give us 4000 culture?

[edit: If it is a wonder that gives 4x we just avoid that city. If it is a building for all cities have it could be a pain].

 

[Civinator]

I think Civinator stated that there was (going to be?) a change to disallow the 4x culture that we had to work around in 180K. Does that version exist yet? If we buy all culture buildings will artists give us 4000 culture?

Here is a list of the features of the patched CCM 2.50 biq: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/page-26#post-15617879

The patched biq is available since a longer time.

 

[LKendter]

1475 AD (0)
I don’t look for trades. At this point it doesn’t matter.
(IT) China declares war on America and Persia.
During our build phase I find multiple cities building military still have some culture stuff to build. With the civ wide culture game coming up I have no question our CPT per turn could be higher.


1480 AD (1)
We gain 4 artists. It looks like 5 artists to go.

We kill Italy: 2 longbows, and 6 crossbows. (8-0)
(IT) Arabia and America sign a peace treaty.
Napoleonic Era went obsolete.


1485 AD (2)
Our lawyers are clueless this round. I tell them to retake the bar exam. Units beyond the stack of crossbows will need to be chased down.
We gained a partisan.

We kill Italy: 5 crossbows. (13-0)
We kill Arabia: 1 artillery piece. (14-0)
We lost 1 partisan. (14-1)
(IT) Israel and Poland sign a peace treaty.

 

[LKendter]

1490 AD (3)
We gain 1 artist.

We kill Italy: 1 camel, 1 catapult, 1 bucket, and 1 crossbow. (18-1)
(IT) Britain declares war on Mongolia.
Arabia declares war on America. That peace treaty didn’t last long.


1495 AD (4)
[End of session 1]
Sadly the collection of crossbows won’t be enough to end it. I need to lay more rails, and hunt down targets.
We get another round of sucky artist luck.

Closer to Italy is founded. We need to move the bombers forward to keep getting targets.

We kill Italy: 1 camel corp, 1 artillery piece, 1 horse artillery, 3 dragoon, and 2 crossbows.
(IT) Inca and America sign a MPP.
Poland and Turkey sign a peace treaty.
Inca declare war on China.
America declares war on Scandinavia.

 

[LKendter]

1500 AD (5)
[End of session 2]
We gain 2 artists.

We kill Italy: 1 musket and 1 pike
(IT) Inca declares war on Germany.
Scandinavia wants us to give $120/T for an MPP.
Inca declares war on Arabia.


1505 AD (6)
Where are the artists is founded. This game should already be over. This is getting very painful.

We kill Italy: 1 adventurer, 7 infantry, 1 pike, 7 muskets and 5 rifles.
We lost: 1 horse artillery and 1 lawyer.

 

[LKendter]

1510 AD (7)
British Bombard Te Kan generates another leader. At this point it is 100% meaningless.

We gain 2 artists.

We kill Italy: 2 pike and 2 rifles.
(IT) Japan and Persia sign a peace treaty.
[End of session 3]

 

[LKendter]

The final save. Hit enter and you get the above. The game crashed for me before giving the final score.

 

[LKendter]

It was a weak start, but it looks like even on emperor that getting any early wonders will be tough. Colossus was built before I even had a harbor.

 

[Dwarven Zerker]

Congrats! Looking forward to a civ wide culture win in the next game.

 

[Greebley]

It was a weak start, but it looks like even on emperor that getting any early wonders will be tough. Colossus was built before I even had a harbor.

We won't need every wonder for this game and will likely miss some early ones. Wonder culture is going to be small compared to normal buildings and artist culture anyway. When we eventually want 5k+ culture a turn, even every wonder will be a drop in the bucket.

I think we should just go with a standard (non-super) start and do the best we can in the wonder race. We will start picking them up in time. I think the game needs some challenge which won't be possible if we play at a level where we get all the wonders.

 

[Civinator]

Congratulation to all participants of this succession game!
How many turns did you need to achieve your one city cultural victory?

For a 500K civ cultural victory, may be Israel could be a good choice, as here you can have another very early civspecific GW, Solomon´s Temple, autoproducing holy men. Solomon´s Temple produces prophets and Stonehenge produces druids. Both units can convict monks. So Solomon´s Temple is only available for a short time (obsolete with Religion) this early GW also has the tourism bonus. This GW also triggers the Golden Age for Israel.

 

[Jersey Joe]

A few screenshots:
180K aerial view:


180K population. N.B. Total Culture is exactly 180000.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Guess it is time to load the patch.