LK58 - Middle Ages Scenario
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
Looking for signs of moves. hotrod0823
Deity
Have played 5 turns and have taken way too long between turns.
Short update. Paid off Maygars with CoL to get out of 1 war. Concerned about 3 Longboat from Sweden.
No new techs. Again HATE the linear tech trees.
Byzantines are a royal pain.
That and it is taking me about 5 minutes or more btwn moves. I fear this may have to be my last round if I can't find a way to speed things up.
.
Sorry I can't finish all 10 tonight. I will post tomorrow for sure.
Hotrod
PS. Anyone else think that a 6(6) Zerk is way too strong when the best defensive unit available now is a 1.2.1 spear or a 3.2.1 sword?
Short update. Paid off Maygars with CoL to get out of 1 war. Concerned about 3 Longboat from Sweden.
No new techs. Again HATE the linear tech trees.
Byzantines are a royal pain.
That and it is taking me about 5 minutes or more btwn moves. I fear this may have to be my last round if I can't find a way to speed things up.
.Sorry I can't finish all 10 tonight. I will post tomorrow for sure.
Hotrod
PS. Anyone else think that a 6(6) Zerk is way too strong when the best defensive unit available now is a 1.2.1 spear or a 3.2.1 sword?
I suspect the Zerks are the way they are due to design decisions in the scenario. The zerks are to be feared greatly during this era. I suspect it is a bit unbalanced in the hands of a real player. Fortunately we are not forced to deal with them, as we may make peace, so we can take on softer targets.
They would give good victory points though, as they are 70 shields.
Seems like it is all about offence, seeing as it is a long long way to the Swiss pikes, while cavalry is not far off at all.
Grimjack
They would give good victory points though, as they are 70 shields.
Seems like it is all about offence, seeing as it is a long long way to the Swiss pikes, while cavalry is not far off at all.
Grimjack
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I'm still sick and there is no way I can play till sat afternoon. If
I can't keep something down tomorrow I may have to get fluid replacement. I'll try mto keep the team advised but if i go much over I may need a skip.
I can't keep something down tomorrow I may have to get fluid replacement. I'll try mto keep the team advised but if i go much over I may need a skip.
While we are waiting for Todd to get better, ( And please DO get better. It is no fun being sick. ) Could we discuss the weird tech dealings ?
I have been spending time to get a better hang of how the tech system works in this scenario ( conquest ? ).
There was a small note on the first roman tech, stating that this tech could not be traded for, it had to be researched.
Would the same hold true to all the other 'optional' techs ?
Or are there some 'tribes' that can trade their native techs between themselves, and only the techs that are 'foreign' to the cultural group are needed to be researched ?
I have tried a few turns as one of the barbarian tribes ( Couldn't resist the lure of Zerks
) I could only trade the required techs with other players.
If you have to research by yourself, there is no way you can research all the optionals by yourself, but you have to concentrate really hard if you want to get a tree.
The trees are also good at different things.
Roman tree gives ancient cavalry + aqueducts
Feudal tree gives knights and crusaders together with manors and some wonders
Byzantine gives libraries and hospitals.
Barbs get longboats and blacksmiths
HOwever, if you concentrate on the required techs, you will reach the high medieval age faster, and here there are banks, markets and defensive troops.
How many techs can one reasonably hope to get and use ?
Anyone found a place in the docs to see how it works, or is the editor the place to be if you want to know this stuff ?
Grimjack
I have been spending time to get a better hang of how the tech system works in this scenario ( conquest ? ).
There was a small note on the first roman tech, stating that this tech could not be traded for, it had to be researched.
Would the same hold true to all the other 'optional' techs ?
Or are there some 'tribes' that can trade their native techs between themselves, and only the techs that are 'foreign' to the cultural group are needed to be researched ?
I have tried a few turns as one of the barbarian tribes ( Couldn't resist the lure of Zerks
) I could only trade the required techs with other players. If you have to research by yourself, there is no way you can research all the optionals by yourself, but you have to concentrate really hard if you want to get a tree.
The trees are also good at different things.
Roman tree gives ancient cavalry + aqueducts
Feudal tree gives knights and crusaders together with manors and some wonders
Byzantine gives libraries and hospitals.
Barbs get longboats and blacksmiths
HOwever, if you concentrate on the required techs, you will reach the high medieval age faster, and here there are banks, markets and defensive troops.
How many techs can one reasonably hope to get and use ?
Anyone found a place in the docs to see how it works, or is the editor the place to be if you want to know this stuff ?
Grimjack
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Some comments about benefits for everyone (many units are Civ-specific), in regular Civ terms:
* Byzantine tree: Aquaducts, Drafting, Battlefield Med; and Spies (detect Invisible, can be crucial if you happen to fight Cordova - Inquisitors are better, but come quite late)
* Catholic tree: Libraries (called Monasteries), KN Wonder, HRE Wonder (=ToE + Heroic Epic + Pentagon), Bank (=Manor); Crusaders (best defensive unit before Swiss M)
* Arab: Libraries, Hospitals (give also culture here), BF Med; Assassins
Edit: Hospitals here are in fact Aquaducts! There are no real 'Hospitals' in Middle Ages, only Ports (Coastal cities only).
* Vikings: Factories (=Blacksmiths), Viking Sagas SM (Magellans + Heroic Epic)
Berserk, Longboats, Knights, Cataphracts, Ansars, Sipahi are only allowed for some Civs.
Also note the generic 3rd era tree offers Marketplaces, Mills, Pikes, Universities, but no Aquaduct-equivalent.
Because of this, it seems crucial for the European Civs to either get the Arab or Byz tree.
And yes, while you have to research the 'opening' Tech yourself, you can trade for the next ones; keep in mind there are different numbers of competitive Civs in each tree - trading for Arab Techs should be possible @3 or even @4 prices, while the Byz/ Viking Techs are often more expensive.
Hope that helps.
hotrod0823
Deity
LK58
1050 AD (0): We are still at war with 4 civs. A nice change from LK57. Bzyantines, Magyars and Swedes won't talk. Cordova will talk but we have more turns on the alliance with Castille. Will try to focus on getting more units for the eventual war with the Burgundy. We are down, early siege technology and Monasticism. Germany and Poland are the only civs I can see with it. One thing that is a concern is our coastal cities. The swedes have viking boats and amphibous assult zerks. Will try to beef up our defenses on the coast.
Can't afford cats or Monasticism, hope our economic possition improves soon. Swap Orleans from a horseman wasting 12 shields to a granary due in 3 turns. And change Rhiems from a settler to a spear, Ampurias swaps to a town hall from a curragh. Change Tours a barracks from a spear. I am wondering how hard we can push on the Cordovans, for right now will continue to send a few more units south but I am reluctant to move too many outside or boarders.
1053 AD (1): Cordova town of Valencia holds up to the Castille assult but we have units right there ready to grab it. Germany and Norway Ally vs. Burgundy. Paris builds a sword starts another. Tours builds the barracks starts a spear. Lost 1 sword to a vet spear but captured Valencia. Start a temple and put city on a diet. Can pickup viking sagas but concerned about trade value. No luck with earyseige or the other Monasticism. Build our embassy in Poland for 57 gold. He is building a Monastary and has 7 spears in town.
1056 AD (2): Angers builds a sword starts a horse and need to try and relocate our scientist. Boulogne builds swords starts town hall. Continue moving units to the SW but it is slow going.
1059 AD (3): More swords are built. Granary in Orleans starts a horsey. Lost a spear in Rhiems to a Byzantine swords. Bordeaux starts a blacksmith. Clearmont starts a granary. Lyons builds town hall starts horsey. Can't get cover to Rheims this turn hope the reg sword can get a win vs. the 3/4 sword. Well is Rheims worth 92 gold and 14gpt!
I say no and don't make peace with Bzantynes yet. Nothing else new on the tech front.
1062 AD (4): Lose our sword in the middle of the world. Lose Rheims to the Byzantine sword. They have a ROP with the Burgundians. 3 longboats from Sweden appear off our coast near Lyons. Ghent builds spear starts blacksmith. Take my chances and kill the wounded sword in Rhiems with the vet spear in the area. We keep our baracks there but thats it. Fearing the worst from the Swede longboats I shuffle a few swords toward Lyons and move all 4 workers into the city. Change Clermont back to a spear. Give up Code of Laws to the Magyars to end the war. Peace with the Bzyantines is not soo cheap. Move out of Valencia toward the next Cordova city.
1065 AD (5): Angers builds a horse starts a spear. Lyons a horse starts a sword. Chartres a blacksmith starts a barracks. Techs have been completely stalled. Continueing buildup of our boarder towns. Bzyantines are still around and Swedes are out in the boats. Can't get peace for a reasonable amount. Still don't think Rheims is worth all our gold and gpt.
INBT: Celts declared on the Turks. Castille captures Cordovan city of Seville. As expected Rheims falls again
1068 AD (6): Ten minutes later! Paris builds a sword starts another. Orleans a horse Boulogne a town halls starts horseman. Clermont a spear starts a blacksmith. Danes start Bayeux Tapestry. And Magyars the HRE. Our progress in the SW is blocked by Castillian units. Okay I make a deal hoping for a 3fr or better. Buy Viking Sagas from Danes for 130 gold and 12 gpt. Viking Saga to Norway for 84 gold and a worker. Viking saga to Swedes for Peace.
1071 AD (7): Started and my entire system crashed spent the rest of the night figuring out what happend. Looks like my wife downloads a screensaver and changed my settings so it comes on after 3 minutes. When I was between turns waiting the screen saver kicked in my system locked and I had low virtual memory. I haven't had these problems with PTW but did have it with Civ3 vanilla.
We can build the Norse Saga. Many are building the Tapestry. Paris, Orleans and Claremont all need taxmen to avoid rioting. Start workers in Paris and Orleans to curb population. With only 1 lux a 10% lux cuts into an already terrible economy.. Without anyway to get to the Cordova cities I cancel the alliance with Castille. I will make one more push into Cordova then make peace. Trade our only quarry and our extra horses to Kieven Rus for Early Seigecraft. Shuffling units to hit Rhiems in a few turns. Only at war with Byzantines and Cordova now.
1074 AD (8): Abbasid have Mapmaking. We are losing gold and need clowns/taxmen. Too many units not enough targets and only 1 lux. Trade Early Siegcraft to Magyars for a worker. Demark has MapMaking and a boat load of gold . Sell Seigecraft to Castille for 30 gold and 3gpt. CoL to Celts for all there gold 10. Trade WM, to Fatimid for TM. Burgundy has MapMaking too. Early Seigecraft to Bulgars for 20 gold.
1077 AD (9): Moving to take Rhiems back. Poland declared on the Turks. As does Denmark. 2 horses are wounded but survive attacks from Cordova in the mountains outside there capital. Norway capture Burgundian city of Marseilles. Recapture Rhiems. Chartes completes a barracks. Wines to Denmark for 110 gold. We still can't afford Monasticism. I think our best bet is to use the
to get some techs from the Burgundians.
1080 AD (10): Finally the last turn. It takes 2 swords and a wounded horse to kill the last 2 Byzantine swords near Rhiems. Our party in Cordova is spent. Make Peace with him for Granada. Stacks of Castille's were ready to take it from him. No tech deals. We are 13 turns away from MM by self research. NOW is the Time to hit Burgundy and grabs some techs. We have a few units heading toward Rhiems and there are a few in the north that can be consolidated to hit the 2 cities up there. Poland, Norway and Germany have already cut into him hard. He also has all 3 techs we need. I would also recommned hooking up the last wines near Rhiems and the extra stone for trade help.
Here is the save;
http://civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-1080AD.zip
1050 AD (0): We are still at war with 4 civs. A nice change from LK57. Bzyantines, Magyars and Swedes won't talk. Cordova will talk but we have more turns on the alliance with Castille. Will try to focus on getting more units for the eventual war with the Burgundy. We are down, early siege technology and Monasticism. Germany and Poland are the only civs I can see with it. One thing that is a concern is our coastal cities. The swedes have viking boats and amphibous assult zerks. Will try to beef up our defenses on the coast.
Can't afford cats or Monasticism, hope our economic possition improves soon. Swap Orleans from a horseman wasting 12 shields to a granary due in 3 turns. And change Rhiems from a settler to a spear, Ampurias swaps to a town hall from a curragh. Change Tours a barracks from a spear. I am wondering how hard we can push on the Cordovans, for right now will continue to send a few more units south but I am reluctant to move too many outside or boarders.
1053 AD (1): Cordova town of Valencia holds up to the Castille assult but we have units right there ready to grab it. Germany and Norway Ally vs. Burgundy. Paris builds a sword starts another. Tours builds the barracks starts a spear. Lost 1 sword to a vet spear but captured Valencia. Start a temple and put city on a diet. Can pickup viking sagas but concerned about trade value. No luck with earyseige or the other Monasticism. Build our embassy in Poland for 57 gold. He is building a Monastary and has 7 spears in town.
1056 AD (2): Angers builds a sword starts a horse and need to try and relocate our scientist. Boulogne builds swords starts town hall. Continue moving units to the SW but it is slow going.
1059 AD (3): More swords are built. Granary in Orleans starts a horsey. Lost a spear in Rhiems to a Byzantine swords. Bordeaux starts a blacksmith. Clearmont starts a granary. Lyons builds town hall starts horsey. Can't get cover to Rheims this turn hope the reg sword can get a win vs. the 3/4 sword. Well is Rheims worth 92 gold and 14gpt!
I say no and don't make peace with Bzantynes yet. Nothing else new on the tech front.1062 AD (4): Lose our sword in the middle of the world. Lose Rheims to the Byzantine sword. They have a ROP with the Burgundians. 3 longboats from Sweden appear off our coast near Lyons. Ghent builds spear starts blacksmith. Take my chances and kill the wounded sword in Rhiems with the vet spear in the area. We keep our baracks there but thats it
. Fearing the worst from the Swede longboats I shuffle a few swords toward Lyons and move all 4 workers into the city. Change Clermont back to a spear. Give up Code of Laws to the Magyars to end the war. Peace with the Bzyantines is not soo cheap. Move out of Valencia toward the next Cordova city.1065 AD (5): Angers builds a horse starts a spear. Lyons a horse starts a sword. Chartres a blacksmith starts a barracks. Techs have been completely stalled. Continueing buildup of our boarder towns. Bzyantines are still around and Swedes are out in the boats. Can't get peace for a reasonable amount. Still don't think Rheims is worth all our gold and gpt.
INBT: Celts declared on the Turks. Castille captures Cordovan city of Seville. As expected Rheims falls again
1068 AD (6): Ten minutes later! Paris builds a sword starts another. Orleans a horse Boulogne a town halls starts horseman. Clermont a spear starts a blacksmith. Danes start Bayeux Tapestry. And Magyars the HRE. Our progress in the SW is blocked by Castillian units. Okay I make a deal hoping for a 3fr or better. Buy Viking Sagas from Danes for 130 gold and 12 gpt. Viking Saga to Norway for 84 gold and a worker. Viking saga to Swedes for Peace.
1071 AD (7): Started and my entire system crashed spent the rest of the night figuring out what happend. Looks like my wife downloads a screensaver and changed my settings so it comes on after 3 minutes. When I was between turns waiting the screen saver kicked in my system locked and I had low virtual memory.
I haven't had these problems with PTW but did have it with Civ3 vanilla. We can build the Norse Saga. Many are building the Tapestry. Paris, Orleans and Claremont all need taxmen to avoid rioting. Start workers in Paris and Orleans to curb population. With only 1 lux a 10% lux cuts into an already terrible economy.
. Without anyway to get to the Cordova cities I cancel the alliance with Castille. I will make one more push into Cordova then make peace. Trade our only quarry and our extra horses to Kieven Rus for Early Seigecraft. Shuffling units to hit Rhiems in a few turns. Only at war with Byzantines and Cordova now. 1074 AD (8):
Abbasid have Mapmaking. We are losing gold and need clowns/taxmen. Too many units not enough targets and only 1 lux. Trade Early Siegcraft to Magyars for a worker. Demark has MapMaking and a boat load of gold . Sell Seigecraft to Castille for 30 gold and 3gpt. CoL to Celts for all there gold 10. Trade WM, to Fatimid for TM. Burgundy has MapMaking too. Early Seigecraft to Bulgars for 20 gold.1077 AD (9): Moving to take Rhiems back. Poland declared on the Turks. As does Denmark. 2 horses are wounded but survive attacks from Cordova in the mountains outside there capital. Norway capture Burgundian city of Marseilles. Recapture Rhiems. Chartes completes a barracks. Wines to Denmark for 110 gold. We still can't afford Monasticism. I think our best bet is to use the
to get some techs from the Burgundians. 1080 AD (10): Finally the last turn. It takes 2 swords and a wounded horse to kill the last 2 Byzantine swords near Rhiems. Our party in Cordova is spent. Make Peace with him for Granada. Stacks of Castille's were ready to take it from him. No tech deals. We are 13 turns away from MM by self research. NOW is the Time to hit Burgundy and grabs some techs. We have a few units heading toward Rhiems and there are a few in the north that can be consolidated to hit the 2 cities up there. Poland, Norway and Germany have already cut into him hard. He also has all 3 techs we need. I would also recommned hooking up the last wines near Rhiems and the extra stone for trade help.
Here is the save;
http://civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK58-1080AD.zip
hotrod0823
Deity
A word of warning! Make sure the first thing you do is change the preferences back to normal. I turned off many things and they need to be turned back on.
Sorry for the inconvenenince. It didn't even help just made things more confused
Sorry for the inconvenenince. It didn't even help just made things more confused
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
Start workers in Paris and Orleans to curb population.
Now that is sick. Our #1 priority has to be more luxuries. Stunting growth is not the right way to go.
=====================
CoL to Celts for all there gold 10.
Are we that desperate for cash? This is way below market value!
=====================
LKendter
Meldor
hotrod0823
ToddMarshall (currently playing)
Hopefully feeling better. The current game pace is not what I expect with a LK game.
Grimjack (on deck)
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over
Now that is sick. Our #1 priority has to be more luxuries. Stunting growth is not the right way to go.
=====================
CoL to Celts for all there gold 10.
Are we that desperate for cash? This is way below market value!
=====================
LKendter
Meldor
hotrod0823
ToddMarshall (currently playing)
Hopefully feeling better. The current game pace is not what I expect with a LK game.
Grimjack (on deck)
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Remember this is mass Regicide - lose our kings and game over
hotrod0823
Deity
There are NO luxuries available. They were the only ones without CoL I am not sure what CoL at 17th goes for. Paris at size 10 needs lux at 20%. That we can't afford.
Used the gold to get out of wars, get a couple more embassies and try to play catchup in the tech race.
Used the gold to get out of wars, get a couple more embassies and try to play catchup in the tech race.
hotrod0823
Deity
Follow my last set of turns I think it best that it be my LAST set of turns. I don't want to hold up the game any longer because my machine sucks and I takes upwards of 10 minutes just on the interturns. 
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
@Hotrod0823 - world map games aren't for you...
Sorry to see you go, but if your PC bites isn't much you can do.
========================
LKendter
Meldor
ToddMarshall (currently playing)
Grimjack (on deck)
Sorry to see you go, but if your PC bites isn't much you can do.
========================
LKendter
Meldor
ToddMarshall (currently playing)
Grimjack (on deck)
hotrod0823
Deity
Yeah - It's a bit disapponting , Trying to convince the wife we need an upgrade but no dice.
I will be following along though
, Trying to convince the wife we need an upgrade but no dice. I will be following along though
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I'm feeling a little better finally and think I can play tomorrow. If not, I will post that I need a swap/skip.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Lurker's comment:
Those two exclude each other - all your trade routes run through Burgundian territory, or, even worse, use the Burgundian Harbors. At this stage of the game, only Byzantium, Venice, Dorestad and the 3 Viking Capitals have Harbors...
Your only real chance to get more Lux is Santiago de Compostela. Burgundy has Wool, but you cannot attack them if you plan to do any trades for a long time...
Wines to Denmark for 110 gold. ... I think our best bet is to use the
Those two exclude each other - all your trade routes run through Burgundian territory, or, even worse, use the Burgundian Harbors. At this stage of the game, only Byzantium, Venice, Dorestad and the 3 Viking Capitals have Harbors...
Your only real chance to get more Lux is Santiago de Compostela
. Burgundy has Wool, but you cannot attack them if you plan to do any trades for a long time...
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I'm not going to get to this tonite. I'm having way too many problems in RBC3a and its going to take tonite and maybe tomorrow to get through that one. Between that and catching up on shoping and work I just cant squeeze it in. If Grimjack is able to play tonite or tomorrow he should take the game. Sorry for holding things up.
-Maniac
-Maniac
JustBen
Prince
Will the computer ever try to climb the "wrong" tech tree? I'm probably over-enchanted by the idea of these flavor technologies, but the whole idea of shopping around other cultures' developments for the holes in your own just feels cheat-y to me.
Obviously I'm free to play this conquest however I like; I was just curious about how y'all Epics players feel about that. Thanks.
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