LK99, RaR - 5CCC+, Deity
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Yes, don't get used to Republic - it will be changed to 2gpt anyway in the final 1.04 
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Preturn: Looks good. I move some of the units south. I am considering a French war to limit their Progress vs India.
IBT: France demands wool. Guess the war will start earlier than I planned (Yup, its war all right).
260 AD: Why do we have 0 native workers when we have so much land to improve? I realize it is 3gpt per worker, but it would have been much better to revolt if that is too much. We are majorly hurting our long term growth. For example, Teotihuacan could be size 15 working mountains and triple its shields. With our current worker force it won't be there for 100 turns or more.
IBT: A Eagle Knight wins vs an attacking Elephant.
270 AD: Gathering forces
IBT: Germany finishes Copernicus. Russia finishes Knights Templar.
A Cavalier attacks an Eagle Knight and wins.
280 AD: Decide to move units off the Forest. I will only hold the hills with its better defense.
IBT: No movement.
290 AD: We have 7 units lined up for the attack. Attack on Poiters. We lose a knight and redline a Cavalier, but we kill 3 Pikes and 2 Cavaliers and Raze Poiters. We gain 259 gold and 4 workers.
IBT: France allies England against us. Germany and India ally vs France.
300 AD: Russia can now make alliances too. I ally Russia vs France. (olive oil, wool, 90 gold).
IBT: Boats are heading to our back lands. France Already has a town which will hopefully fall.
310 AD: Healing.
320 AD: Advance on next town.
IBT: Some Units come toward us.
330 AD: Raze Strasbourg (In our Hinterlands). Raze Cherborg. We lose a Cavalier in both attacks, and gain 266 and 272 gold
IBT: We gain Political Perspective and start Absolutism. English settler lands. We are poised for when they build a town.
340 AD: France Complete Gutensburg. Crank up science to full since we are starting to get heavy unit costs.
IBT: England's Settler Settles Liverpool in our backlands where the French town was.
350 AD: Raze Liverpool for no gold.
Notes:
We have a settler. I chose a spot that is shield poor but that can grow quickly for our next town. The better spot to the north has a Russian town who we can't declare war against as we have an alliance.
I was purposefully allowing the French settler next to us to settle before attacking.
France is not having fun. They have sent very few units at us and have lost 2 towns near India plus the ones near us. They can become a non-entity if we so choose. They were looking biggest and needed taking down a peg.
I would revolt immediately in 3 turns when we get absolutism. Democracy is not the govt for us.
Note that despite 45 gpt unit costs, I was able to raise science to 80%. France (taking French cities) is funding our research.
I strongly suggest building more workers. Our towns need a lot of improvements including mountains that are costly to upgrade. Also remember that in RaR, rail roading is VERY expensive in terms of workers - I am hoping we can have 30-40 native plus all the foreigners we can get by the time rails come in. We really need to start pumping out workers before we get rails and not have 0 natives when we do get them.
In addition, I think we want to start a prebuild for the Encyclopedie very soon. We have 3 turns to Absolutism, and then we are researching Humanism for the pedia. One or 2 turns would probably be best. Our largest prebuild in the capitol is 6 turns. If Humanism is known, I suggest buying it. With the pedia we can spend our gold on unit costs and maint instead of research.
IBT: France demands wool. Guess the war will start earlier than I planned (Yup, its war all right).
260 AD: Why do we have 0 native workers when we have so much land to improve? I realize it is 3gpt per worker, but it would have been much better to revolt if that is too much. We are majorly hurting our long term growth. For example, Teotihuacan could be size 15 working mountains and triple its shields. With our current worker force it won't be there for 100 turns or more.
IBT: A Eagle Knight wins vs an attacking Elephant.
270 AD: Gathering forces
IBT: Germany finishes Copernicus. Russia finishes Knights Templar.
A Cavalier attacks an Eagle Knight and wins.
280 AD: Decide to move units off the Forest. I will only hold the hills with its better defense.
IBT: No movement.
290 AD: We have 7 units lined up for the attack. Attack on Poiters. We lose a knight and redline a Cavalier, but we kill 3 Pikes and 2 Cavaliers and Raze Poiters. We gain 259 gold and 4 workers.
IBT: France allies England against us. Germany and India ally vs France.
300 AD: Russia can now make alliances too. I ally Russia vs France. (olive oil, wool, 90 gold).
IBT: Boats are heading to our back lands. France Already has a town which will hopefully fall.
310 AD: Healing.
320 AD: Advance on next town.
IBT: Some Units come toward us.
330 AD: Raze Strasbourg (In our Hinterlands). Raze Cherborg. We lose a Cavalier in both attacks, and gain 266 and 272 gold
IBT: We gain Political Perspective and start Absolutism. English settler lands. We are poised for when they build a town.
340 AD: France Complete Gutensburg. Crank up science to full since we are starting to get heavy unit costs.
IBT: England's Settler Settles Liverpool in our backlands where the French town was.
350 AD: Raze Liverpool for no gold.
Notes:
We have a settler. I chose a spot that is shield poor but that can grow quickly for our next town. The better spot to the north has a Russian town who we can't declare war against as we have an alliance.
I was purposefully allowing the French settler next to us to settle before attacking.
France is not having fun. They have sent very few units at us and have lost 2 towns near India plus the ones near us. They can become a non-entity if we so choose. They were looking biggest and needed taking down a peg.
I would revolt immediately in 3 turns when we get absolutism. Democracy is not the govt for us.
Note that despite 45 gpt unit costs, I was able to raise science to 80%. France (taking French cities) is funding our research.
I strongly suggest building more workers. Our towns need a lot of improvements including mountains that are costly to upgrade. Also remember that in RaR, rail roading is VERY expensive in terms of workers - I am hoping we can have 30-40 native plus all the foreigners we can get by the time rails come in. We really need to start pumping out workers before we get rails and not have 0 natives when we do get them.
In addition, I think we want to start a prebuild for the Encyclopedie very soon. We have 3 turns to Absolutism, and then we are researching Humanism for the pedia. One or 2 turns would probably be best. Our largest prebuild in the capitol is 6 turns. If Humanism is known, I suggest buying it. With the pedia we can spend our gold on unit costs and maint instead of research.
ThERat
Deity
great progress Greebley. agree with your plans and some more natives.
maybe I have some visions on a sunday morning, but from afar that mini map looks a little like europe with France in the proper place. We look like England (but the Island connected to mainland europe).
the hispanic peninsula is occupied by some yellow force
ok ok enough rubbish
maybe I have some visions on a sunday morning, but from afar that mini map looks a little like europe with France in the proper place. We look like England (but the Island connected to mainland europe).
the hispanic peninsula is occupied by some yellow force
ok ok enough rubbish
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
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Our unit cost will drop from 3 per unit to 2 per unit after the free support. That more then justifies the revolt. We will then have a serious challenge if we want the Encyclopedia. The Estates General is a huge revenue boaster for us, and it must go in the capitol, as it is built where the palace is. It gives us a colossus effect plus 50% increase in tax revenue. The Encyclopedia doesn't last forever, and our long-term economics really needs the Estates General. I don't think we can survive in the post Encyclopedia period with out it.
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Well then we better get the Encyclopedia. Our economy is horrid right now and will only support 30% science with positive cash flow. I don't want to have to survive on razing cities for cash to support a decent research.
We are now caught between a rock and a hard place. I agree we could use more labor. However, our science rate will collapse into us being permanent science laggard with this large of a labor force. If we fail to get the Encyclopedia I will be doing everything possible to stop this large of a native labor force.
I think we have better get the right to city #7 if not #8 before rails to support this. Not to mention I think Smith's is critical for us.
The settler spot proposed by Greebley will be downright horrid for shields. It will be a non-productive city until we get a leader for the international port.
I would like to propose this site instead. It generates good growth with a harbor, as both seals become bonus food tiles. There are enough mountains to work for shields.
To be honest, I am not sure of the 5CCC+ model works with RaR. With the higher unit cost it is brutal to try and build the needed labor force along with support the needed troops. In addition, pure free labor works in C3C. It is starting to appear it doesn't work in RaR.
It almost appears that you must go with GL1 and GL2 to survive. RaR seems to require a larger labor force to be productive. So far I am not enjoying combing the two. I will see how this plays out, but as of now I don't want to run another.
Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley
Microbe (currently playing)
Sanabas (on deck)
ThERat
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Previous players credit toward city #6: 3
Current players credit toward city #6: Poitiers, Strasbourg, Cherbourg, and Liverpool. +4
Final credit toward city #6: 6, we can build our sixth town.
Credit toward city #7: 0
We may initially build a maximum of 5 cities. After that the plus rules take effect.
We must count the number of cities we raze. When the number of razed cities exceeded the number of cities we have we may build another city. After that the razed city count resets to zero.
For example:
We razed 6 cities. We build out 6th city. We must then raze another 7 cities (total of 13) for the right to build the 7th city.
NOTE: We can't capture cities! All cities must be native built.
Our city count can't ever exceed the amount allowed for even a millisecond.
The right to the number of cities is never reduced. If we lose city #7, we can rebuild city #7. Remember - we can't capture cities including our own if lost.
We also double our unit support (assuming we have size 8+ cities) with Absolute Monarchy since size 8+ will be 4 instead of 2 support.
We could build the Estate General after the Encylopedie. I see us.
1) starting a prebuild next turn.
2) Revolt (only 2 turns) right away.
3) Continue to resarch at 80%. That will get us the tech for the pedia in 3 + 2 (anarchy) + 3 or 4 turns (8 or 9 turns to the Humanism). We then finish it up - probably less than 15 turns total. We then start the estates right away after that.
Nobody has switched to Absolute Monarchy, so I think the Estates is a lot safer than the pedia.
You may be right on the better town locale. We can use the sheep for shields on the one I was settling, but it may not be as good. The site I suggested has 11 shields as a maximum which isn't terrible (or at least, I wouldn't call it non-productive), but isn't great either.
I guess I see workers as costing money in the short term, but gains it back (and more) in the medium term when you have full sized cities (due to Irrigation) and full shields (build money buildings faster). There is probably a "right" number of workers: too many is bad but so is too few. I am not sure what that number is. However, RaR compensates for the high costs by having a lot of Buildings that can make money. By getting shield high quicker we can build those buildings and end with more in the long run. The only flaw with the above theory in our current case being our lack of the gold resource, but we can overcome that I suspect. Only question is when. Until we do, I agree the number of natural workers will be lower rather than higher.
And as you say if we get the pedia, we can build workers without too many worries. If need be they could be merged back in when it expires. We would then have better cities and research faster because of it.
Anyway I am straying off topic. Good Luck, ThERat. I am hoping you will have us building the pedia by the end of your turn.
We could build the Estate General after the Encylopedie. I see us.
1) starting a prebuild next turn.
2) Revolt (only 2 turns) right away.
3) Continue to resarch at 80%. That will get us the tech for the pedia in 3 + 2 (anarchy) + 3 or 4 turns (8 or 9 turns to the Humanism). We then finish it up - probably less than 15 turns total. We then start the estates right away after that.
Nobody has switched to Absolute Monarchy, so I think the Estates is a lot safer than the pedia.
You may be right on the better town locale. We can use the sheep for shields on the one I was settling, but it may not be as good. The site I suggested has 11 shields as a maximum which isn't terrible (or at least, I wouldn't call it non-productive), but isn't great either.
I guess I see workers as costing money in the short term, but gains it back (and more) in the medium term when you have full sized cities (due to Irrigation) and full shields (build money buildings faster). There is probably a "right" number of workers: too many is bad but so is too few. I am not sure what that number is. However, RaR compensates for the high costs by having a lot of Buildings that can make money. By getting shield high quicker we can build those buildings and end with more in the long run. The only flaw with the above theory in our current case being our lack of the gold resource, but we can overcome that I suspect. Only question is when. Until we do, I agree the number of natural workers will be lower rather than higher.
And as you say if we get the pedia, we can build workers without too many worries. If need be they could be merged back in when it expires. We would then have better cities and research faster because of it.
Anyway I am straying off topic. Good Luck, ThERat. I am hoping you will have us building the pedia by the end of your turn.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
preturn: I fix preferences. Why "City disorder" is off?
Switch capital to Training Camp as prebuild.
Tlatelolto to peasant.
IBT Zulu and France sign embargo against us.
360AD: sent settler to the spot Lee proposed.
Germany has connected an extra gold, so I buy it with Olive Oil+WM+4gpt.
370AD: England declares on Russia. Decline peace with England. We get Absolute Monarchy and revolt immediately.
380AD: Raze the newly founded Brest and gain 288g. Hire tons of clowns.
390AD: We are Absolute Monarchy. Our research at 80% still incurs -96gpt, and Humanism takes almost double time to finish in 9 turns.
I let capital complete Guild Hall before building GL2. It might delay it by 1 turn.
Temporarily raise lux to 20.
I MA with Zulu against France and exchange Absolute Monarchy with Physics.
IBT France and India make peace.
410AD: Start on Estates Geneal as prebuild. We are 75spt so GL2 will be in 16 turns.
420AD: Lose one cavalier and raze Grenoble, gaining 149g.
IBT: France starts Estates General in Paris!
430AD: Found Tlacopan.
IBT Japan starts Smith's.
440AD: England declares on Zulu.
450AD: Estates General in 7, and Humanism in 3. Not sure how fast Paris can build it. Maybe we should slow down Humanism and complete Estates General first to end the cascade, and in the mean time to save gold to upgrade our peasants to laborers.
Our stack is waiting for France to refound Grenoble to raze it.
We need tp introduce irrigation to Tlacopan though hills.
Switch capital to Training Camp as prebuild.
Tlatelolto to peasant.
IBT Zulu and France sign embargo against us.
360AD: sent settler to the spot Lee proposed.
Germany has connected an extra gold, so I buy it with Olive Oil+WM+4gpt.
370AD: England declares on Russia. Decline peace with England. We get Absolute Monarchy and revolt immediately.
380AD: Raze the newly founded Brest and gain 288g. Hire tons of clowns.
390AD: We are Absolute Monarchy. Our research at 80% still incurs -96gpt, and Humanism takes almost double time to finish in 9 turns.
I let capital complete Guild Hall before building GL2. It might delay it by 1 turn.
Temporarily raise lux to 20.
I MA with Zulu against France and exchange Absolute Monarchy with Physics.
IBT France and India make peace.
410AD: Start on Estates Geneal as prebuild. We are 75spt so GL2 will be in 16 turns.
420AD: Lose one cavalier and raze Grenoble, gaining 149g.
IBT: France starts Estates General in Paris!
430AD: Found Tlacopan.
IBT Japan starts Smith's.
440AD: England declares on Zulu.
450AD: Estates General in 7, and Humanism in 3. Not sure how fast Paris can build it. Maybe we should slow down Humanism and complete Estates General first to end the cascade, and in the mean time to save gold to upgrade our peasants to laborers.
Our stack is waiting for France to refound Grenoble to raze it.
We need tp introduce irrigation to Tlacopan though hills.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
I agree 100%. Estates General is very important to our long-term economy. In addition, we almost have the critical Smith's to build in the near future.
Improving our labor force is will let us get the best bang for the buck to get our lands better.
Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley
Microbe
Sanabas (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Previous players credit toward city #7: 0
Current players credit toward city #7: Brest, Grenoble, +2
Final credit toward city #7: 2
We may initially build a maximum of 5 cities. After that the plus rules take effect.
We must count the number of cities we raze. When the number of razed cities exceeded the number of cities we have we may build another city. After that the razed city count resets to zero.
For example:
We razed 6 cities. We build out 6th city. We must then raze another 7 cities (total of 13) for the right to build the 7th city.
NOTE: We can't capture cities! All cities must be native built.
Our city count can't ever exceed the amount allowed for even a millisecond.
The right to the number of cities is never reduced. If we lose city #7, we can rebuild city #7. Remember - we can't capture cities including our own if lost.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
I took a look at the game.
1) What are we trying to accomplish by keeping the English war going?
2) Why don't we have at least one city trying to take advantage of us importing gold? Sooner or later we will be at war and won't be able to import it. I found just 2 guildhalls, 0 tollhouses and 0 banks. The Central bank in the capitol is $50 in interest and a boast to revenue on top of the Estate General.
The nature of the 5CCC+ challenge is that you can't afford to totally ignore buildings.
1) What are we trying to accomplish by keeping the English war going?
2) Why don't we have at least one city trying to take advantage of us importing gold? Sooner or later we will be at war and won't be able to import it. I found just 2 guildhalls, 0 tollhouses and 0 banks. The Central bank in the capitol is $50 in interest and a boast to revenue on top of the Estate General.
The nature of the 5CCC+ challenge is that you can't afford to totally ignore buildings.
Agree we should get toll houses down at the very least.
If we can truely stop all cascades with the Estates Gen, then I agree. If the AI has places to run, then I think we should go for the pedia first. To me that is the more important wonder. Also Estates Gen is "protected" if noone is an Abs Monarchy.
If we can truely stop all cascades with the Estates Gen, then I agree. If the AI has places to run, then I think we should go for the pedia first. To me that is the more important wonder. Also Estates Gen is "protected" if noone is an Abs Monarchy.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
microbe said:
Please read Microbe's quote above. The Estates General has competition.Greebley said:
We are again trapped on this one. Our economic survival requires Estates General once the Encyclopedia is obsoleted. Is there any way we can start a good pre-build for Encyclopedia in another city?
Ya, I missed the fact that it was in progress. I don't feel it necessary, but it would definitely be useful, so I am not adverse to going for it first since it seems more in danger of being missed.
I've got it
ThERat
Deity
sanabas is on autoskip, so shall I take this now?
450: All good
460: auto-raze rennes
470: zzz
IBT: england found Brighton in the swamp that rennes just vacated
480: auto-raze brighton
490: Buy humanism for 12 gold.
Sell humanism to zulu for jurisprudence, WM & 350 gold
Humanism, Jurisprudence & 650 gold to Russia for Metallurgy & Magnetism
Magnetism & Metallurgy to Russia for Map Making, 2 luxes & 20 gold
Start on Mercantilism
500: Alliance with Russia v France ends, I send Russia 2 luxes for 2 luxes, WM & 50 gold
510: Peace with England, they give us 5 workers & 10 gold
France is killing off our invasion force with a lot of cavaliers and some dragoons, I want to make peace but we still have an alliance with the Zulu
520: Germany & France sign peace
Tenochtitlan build Estates General
530: India builds Bach's.
Invasion force is killed off, but the french don't press their advantage, if they kept coming with their mounted units we could have been in some trouble.
540, 550: zzz. GL2 is due in 11 turns in Tenochtitlan, Paris is also on it, I don't know if we'll get there or not, I suspect it will be close. The war with France is at a ceasefire at the moment, if it starts up again and produces an MGL, it should be used on International Port
460: auto-raze rennes
470: zzz
IBT: england found Brighton in the swamp that rennes just vacated
480: auto-raze brighton
490: Buy humanism for 12 gold.
Sell humanism to zulu for jurisprudence, WM & 350 gold
Humanism, Jurisprudence & 650 gold to Russia for Metallurgy & Magnetism
Magnetism & Metallurgy to Russia for Map Making, 2 luxes & 20 gold
Start on Mercantilism
500: Alliance with Russia v France ends, I send Russia 2 luxes for 2 luxes, WM & 50 gold
510: Peace with England, they give us 5 workers & 10 gold
France is killing off our invasion force with a lot of cavaliers and some dragoons, I want to make peace but we still have an alliance with the Zulu
520: Germany & France sign peace
Tenochtitlan build Estates General
530: India builds Bach's.
Invasion force is killed off, but the french don't press their advantage, if they kept coming with their mounted units we could have been in some trouble.
540, 550: zzz. GL2 is due in 11 turns in Tenochtitlan, Paris is also on it, I don't know if we'll get there or not, I suspect it will be close. The war with France is at a ceasefire at the moment, if it starts up again and produces an MGL, it should be used on International Port
And as per LK98, please place me on auto-skip, it should only be a few days.
One thing that is important in this era in RaR is to always defend your troops with Pikes or Eagle knights. Also stick to defensive terrain The enemy shouldn't be attacking your Dragoons or Cavaliers at all. I suggest a Miniimum of 2 Eagle knights per stack with 3 being better.
In the standard game this is less important because knights have a defense of 3 vs attack of 4 and don't need defenders. RaR with its attack 6 vs defense 2 requires it. You need the Defense 4 units.
If you run out of defenders switch some builds and retreat back into the defense of your cities.
In the standard game this is less important because knights have a defense of 3 vs attack of 4 and don't need defenders. RaR with its attack 6 vs defense 2 requires it. You need the Defense 4 units.
If you run out of defenders switch some builds and retreat back into the defense of your cities.
