LN1 - "Great works are performed, not by strength, but by perseverance."

[Lush Ninja]

Hey, how's everyone going?

Well, I'm a big warlords player, but unfortunately I've been constantly frustrated by Monarch (I'm guessing I can't seem to cope with the bonuses that the AIs are getting.) I can handle prince easily enough, it's just a big leap between the two difficulties. I guess, what I'm trying to say, is: Is there anyone available/interested in a monarch level warlords SG?

Right now I'm open to suggestions/ideas about variants, civs, and map type.

I am also willing to upgrade to bts if that is necessary for most people. Does it require more or the same amount of system resources though?

And if, for some reason, there's not enough people/no interest, can anyone chime in with some strategies one can use to best the annoying AI?

Looking forward to see what comes of this.

Info

Map: Large & Small, interspersed islands
Difficulty: Monarch
Leader/Civ: Lincoln of the Americans
Speed: Normal
Victory condition: Domination (but we should wait until our UU).

Roster

Lush Ninja
Haphazard1
NamliaM
ChrisFromLux
toug
Winth

​

Some rules I came across that I am liking (stolen ruthlessly from pholkhero , with a few additions):

Alpha: The quality of your report outweighs the quality of your play. We’re here to have fun, and, of course, winning is fun, but losing in style is preferable to a boring win. Remember, your report should be a new reply to alert other players. Letting others know what your plans are with your moves is essential for a good flow of turns, making us move towards a common goal, not 5 different ones.

Bravo: Reports should be detailed, with plenty of screen shots and player commentary, explanations, musings, etc; an auto-log dump will not suffice. Shots of the F9 screens and overview shots of the empire are nice too, once in a while. I am a very visual person, and I love screenshots. A picture truly is worth 1000 words.

Charlie: Punctuality rocks! “24/48” means post a "got it" within 24 hours of when the last save was posted, and play within 48 hours of that ‘got it.’ Waiting 47 hours to ask for a skip is lame. Punk out two times in a row, and you’ll be dropped from the roster. Skips and swaps are fine, but try to let us know sooner, rather than later.

Delta: Major game decisions (war/peace declarations, religion swaps, city placement, etc) should be arrived at via group consensus.
1. If the team disagrees with you, either argue your case better, or do it their way. Do NOT just blow them off and do it your way because it's your turn.
2. However, if there’s no consensus and you’re up, do it your way and explain why. Conversely, if someone else is up, don't whine when they do it their way.
3. Similarly, overruling techs or city builds is rude and should be done via consensus, barring an emergency.
4. In extraordinary situations, sometimes an opportunity presents itself that the group didn't foresee. If the consequences of it are great, players should stop, and refer the question to the group.
This is definitely a big one. It has been said that people can play one level above in an SG, this would be why that is true.

Echo: Being a better player does not give you the right to belittle anyone else or their play. Other people are going to disagree with you on major decisions; get used to the idea, and play nice. If not, take your ball and go home.

Foxtrot: Thread spam is good. Trash talking, poking fun, gentle ribbing, virtual noogies, and generally horsing around are all encouraged, but don’t be rude.

Golf: Automate sparingly.
1. Workers should almost never be automated, except perhaps late-game or building a trade network. However, if you have to, set your game options to “disallow automated worker forest chopping” and “keep previous improvements.”
2. Use of the “Emphasis” buttons is fine, but let the group know and explain your reasoning (specialization is a major game decision). If you prevent growth in a city, let the group know and remind them to take it off. Do NOT let the governor select build orders.
3. Sending units on go-to routes that last beyond your set is acceptable only if they’re heading for a rally point or if you otherwise inform your teammates. NEVER fortify Great People.
If we play 10 turns, it's really not too much to ask to use your brain rather than the computer for things like worker use, tile use, etc. This way if you make a mistake (which would be good, actually) people can point it out and say what could be done better.

India: Sign spamming is rude. Signs can be helpful reminders, but too many signs makes them easily ignored. Once a sign is no longer valid, delete it.

 

[toug]

I'm in for a spot. Prince level player about to move up to Monarch.

If I'm granted a spot, my suggestions:

Alpha-Foxtrot,

Workers should never be automated, not almost never. Especially after my discovery of queuing workers jobs, there is no reason to automate them.

As far as variant type and map? I'd like to work on my naval abilities...but I feel as though a BtS SG would be more appropriate than a warlords SG for that.

So, with respect to that, my suggestion is a semi-historical roleplaying game where the importance of our leader's traits and UU/UB is less influencial than historical accuracy. My first thought was Charlemange and to lead a Christian crusade against the heathens (adpot or declare war), but once again, BtS! I haven't played warlords in a while!

Just my $.02, I'd play anything.

 

[pholkhero]

lurker's comment:
love those rules

but i must take exception to the "never" automate workers. I find myself doing that with them late game when there's nothing useful to do but RR all non-mined or milled tiles with the "build trade route" order. Therefore, the "almost"

That's pretty much the only time i do so.

I also see that you stole an older version of the rules with no "Hotel" btwn "Golf" and "India" ~

good luck with the game

 

[toug]

True about the "build trade route" order, but I swear, even with just that option, I've seen the workers do some fishy things.

 

[Lush Ninja]

I'm in for a spot. Prince level player about to move up to Monarch.

As far as variant type and map? I'd like to work on my naval abilities...but I feel as though a BtS SG would be more appropriate than a warlords SG for that.

So, with respect to that, my suggestion is a semi-historical roleplaying game where the importance of our leader's traits and UU/UB is less influencial than historical accuracy. My first thought was Charlemange and to lead a Christian crusade against the heathens (adpot or declare war), but once again, BtS! I haven't played warlords in a while!

Just my $.02, I'd play anything.

You're in!

You know what? I've been a bit shoddy on my navies as well, and an archipelago map would be appealing on monarch.

In that vein, let us go BtS then.

Any other discussions can wait until I actually download and test the game (probably tonight).

lurker's comment:
love those rules

but i must take exception to the "never" automate workers. I find myself doing that with them late game when there's nothing useful to do but RR all non-mined or milled tiles with the "build trade route" order. Therefore, the "almost"

Thank you, whoever made them knew what they were doing in SGs.

As for worker automation, I'll change it to automate only as long as there are no improvements of importance to be done anywhere. (ie. specializing cities is done, RR network is finished)

 

[namliaM]

If you would have another Monarch wana-be, I wouldnt mind joining in a SG...

Shipping is a general weakness both of me and the AI, so I dont know if it is fair to play monarch on Archipelago...

 

[Lush Ninja]

Alright true. You're in though. How about a hemispheres map with 3 continents, standard or large (prefer standard myself).

Tested out bts, so far so good, but I'm gonna keep playing to see what the new naval stuff is.

How about a britannia rules the waves game, or possibly a dutch VOC game? I need some opinions.

we are now 3/5 or 6. Honestly it doesn't matter much to me at this point.

 

[namliaM]

Dutch are overpowered IMHO. Another great weak point of mine is the farming way...

i.e. specialist economy... how about we try one of them?

 

[toug]

I'm in favor of an SE game.

What about Lincoln on a Large & small map with tiny islands mixed in? I'm interested in America's late game UU - I haven't gotten to use it. I've been using using early game UUs too much. His philosophical trait will be put to good use with an SE and a large & small map will put some importance on a navy while not making it winnable without it.

 

[ChrisFromLux]

Hi!

I would also like to sign in here. I consider myself a Prince-player; though I've won my 1st Monarch-game today.

I've never used or tried a SE-game, but I would like to ...

 

[Lush Ninja]

You're in Chris!

OK, how about "Great works are performed, not by strength, but by perseverance.", an American Oddyssey through time (of course focused on a SE).

Map: Large & Small (my favourite as well! ), interspersed islands (makes it a little easier to find other civs, for tech trading)
Difficulty: Monarch (of course)
Leader/Civ: Lincoln (philo is a must!) of the Americans (the SEAL would be cool in the modern ages)
Speed: normal (well, this is up for discussion)
Victory condition: This one I'm not sure about. I suppose domination (but we should wait until our UU). Ideas please.

Now all of this is of course debatable, just raise the word. I'm going to roll a few starts, as we can start whenever we want. I'll still be accepting another few people.

As well I'm going to edit my first post.

 

[Lush Ninja]

This is the first one I rolled. I'm liking this one, it's on a river, 3 resources, plenty of chopping ability. Suggest warrior 1SE.

This one is even better. 3 seafood AND rice AND on a river. great GP farm plus a few hills. Wonder why the comp says 1NE? Warrior 1W, most likely settle in place.

This one only has one cow. Not so good. :S

 

[namliaM]

Speed: normal (well, this is up for discussion)

I prefer Epic, but normal will do... Normal = More GPs I guess

Start 2 I guess... And the circle is there because there is probably another resource either 2 east or 1 east/1NE of that circle.

To bad those are clambs and not fish... but thats the way it goes.

 

[haphazard1]

If you're still looking for players, I would love to join this game.

I'm a Prince player who has recently tried my first couple Monarch games. I managed victories, but it was a much tougher struggle than I am used to. I am primarily a CE player, but I've been wanting to take a shot at an SE. The team format would be a great way to learn the SE ropes, and this scenario looks like a lot of fun.

 

[ChrisFromLux]

No problem with these settings and goals, though I also prefer Epic. That simply avoids your units to be quite obsolete as soon as they march out of the barracks. But that's no big deal, Normal speed will do as well ...

As for the starts you got, 1 and 2 look good, of course.

For the warrior's 1st move, should we choose one of these starts, I would move him 1NE in start 1, to make sure there's no seafood out there we would miss when settling in place. Finding another seafood would worth the forest we would lose. And moving 1SE will only reveal those 3 southern forest-tiles ... not much info to gain on that 1st move ...

As for the 2nd start, you're really sure about moving that warrior 1W, into the ocean. Or are you considering exchanging him with a NAVY-Seal immediately?
But I would also settle in place, as there can be no resource out there justifying those 2 clams we would loose when not settling in place, but on the blue circle. Though moving the warrior 1E will again not reveal any new tiles, as his view will be blocked by the hill and the forests ... (if I'm not mistaken )

 

[Winth]

Maybe I can play with you? I'm a Monarch player and I'm quite struggling, winning a very small share of my games.
As for starts, I would like some more challenging one to learn more, so 1 or 3, probably? (Although I'm gonna shoot myself in the foot if I see something like: "We get a good starting position, but we are shafted in the tundra" )

 

[Lush Ninja]

No problem with these settings and goals, though I also prefer Epic. That simply avoids your units to be quite obsolete as soon as they march out of the barracks. But that's no big deal, Normal speed will do as well ...

As for the starts you got, 1 and 2 look good, of course.

For the warrior's 1st move, should we choose one of these starts, I would move him 1NE in start 1, to make sure there's no seafood out there we would miss when settling in place. Finding another seafood would worth the forest we would lose. And moving 1SE will only reveal those 3 southern forest-tiles ... not much info to gain on that 1st move ...

As for the 2nd start, you're really sure about moving that warrior 1W, into the ocean. Or are you considering exchanging him with a NAVY-Seal immediately?
But I would also settle in place, as there can be no resource out there justifying those 2 clams we would loose when not settling in place, but on the blue circle. Though moving the warrior 1E will again not reveal any new tiles, as his view will be blocked by the hill and the forests ... (if I'm not mistaken )

Well, that would be awesomeness to own other civs with our SEAL in the ancient age, but oh well. I think I'll move 1E when I play tonight, as it doesn't really matter...
Definately settle in place, those 3 hills + health bonus will be very useful in a SE.

If you're still looking for players, I would love to join this game.

I'm a Prince player who has recently tried my first couple Monarch games. I managed victories, but it was a much tougher struggle than I am used to. I am primarily a CE player, but I've been wanting to take a shot at an SE. The team format would be a great way to learn the SE ropes, and this scenario looks like a lot of fun.

Absolutely, you're in!

I prefer Epic, but normal will do... Normal = More GPs I guess

Start 2 I guess... And the circle is there because there is probably another resource either 2 east or 1 east/1NE of that circle.

To bad those are clambs and not fish... but thats the way it goes.

True, but I think that if there is a resource there, it's probably better to give it to another city.

Maybe I can play with you? I'm a Monarch player and I'm quite struggling, winning a very small share of my games.
As for starts, I would like some more challenging one to learn more, so 1 or 3, probably? (Although I'm gonna shoot myself in the foot if I see something like: "We get a good starting position, but we are shafted in the tundra" )

You're in as well! As for start, I think 2 is best, as we don't want to make this game too challenging. I think it will already be hard enough as we don't really have too many exp. players.

I'm going to play 20 turns to start, and afterwards it's 10 turns here on out. This way we can each think hard about what our decisions will be.

Initial tech path will be Mining > BW, then wheel, writing, and probably currency to CoL (for caste system). Anyone think the pyramids is an idea (if we can find stone, of course), for the representation civic?

Builds at washington will probably be worker (x2?) > work boat (x2-3?) > settler with plenty of chopping. Maybe a warrior thrown in.

As well I suggest you guys read info in the war academy on the SE. Good stuff in there.

I won't be playing for another few hours to give everyone a chance to look this over and give input.

 

[haphazard1]

Absolutely, you're in!

Cool! I look forward to the game, working together with everyone.

A quick question -- what version are we running? BtS with the latest HOF mod? Just the latest BtS? I want to make certain I have the right installation.

True, but I think that if there is a resource there, it's probably better to give it to another city.

I agree. Washington is going to have more food than we'll know what to do with for a while, at least until we can start boosting our happy cap.

I'm going to play 20 turns to start, and afterwards it's 10 turns here on out. This way we can each think hard about what our decisions will be.

Initial tech path will be Mining > BW, then wheel, writing, and probably currency to CoL (for caste system). Anyone think the pyramids is an idea (if we can find stone, of course), for the representation civic?

We'll need Sailing at some point for lighthouses, to get the most out of those clam tiles and for coastal trade. But it should not be urgent -- maybe after Writing? We should also consider Pottery for a granary -- with all this food, the whip will come in handy.

I am assuming Writing early is for libraries and scientist specialists, and the path to CoL and caste system is to really get the SE rolling? I'll definitely be checking out the war academy articles on the SE.

Builds at washington will probably be worker (x2?) > work boat (x2-3?) > settler with plenty of chopping. Maybe a warrior thrown in.

Maybe a work boat (or even two) before the second worker? That would give us a chance to grow towards the happy cap and get some improved tiles, so the second worker will be built much faster.

And I think we should definitely find time for a warrior. What are the barb settings? Plus we will want to get our starting guy out exploring a bit.

I won't be playing for another few hours to give everyone a chance to look this over and give input.

Good luck! I'm curious to see what is out there. Onward to our inevitable (?!?) victory!

 

[toug]

Note: my girlfriend has been gone for about 4 days and she's flying back in tomorrow. I'll probably be wrapped up for the next 2 days or so spending time with her. As I'd prefer not to ask for a skip for my first time is there anyone that would like to switch places with me on the official order? I really don't mind any other spot.

Now to the game:

If we are doing the second map, I don't see why you'd start with a worker. In my mind building a worker first is like a long term investment when agriculture or AH resources are nearby. It really hurts at the beginning but it speeds up growth to work more land for the 1st settler build. But, with a coastal start and a civ that starts with fishing, it seems like a blessing that we are given 2 seafood resources. Building two workboats will allow us to get the ever-important food and commerce without sacrificing population growth so we can get that settler produced quickly.

With that said I'd do workboat-workboat-warrior or workboat-warrior-workboat. A granary and lighthouse will be nice to sustain whipping. Our early research should be pretty good because we'll be able to work the water tiles right away. Early scouting will be a priority - number one for stone, because having the pyramids is advantageous for a game highlighting the use of an SE. Secondly, if we have good dotmaps on coasts than Sailing/Metal Casting might be an option for either TGL or The colossus.

I say settle in place and queue up that workboat.

 

[haphazard1]

Note: my girlfriend has been gone for about 4 days and she's flying back in tomorrow. I'll probably be wrapped up for the next 2 days or so spending time with her. As I'd prefer not to ask for a skip for my first time is there anyone that would like to switch places with me on the official order? I really don't mind any other spot.

toug, I have time available during the first part of this coming week. We can swap this round or permanently, I have no preference.

Now to the game:

If we are doing the second map, I don't see why you'd start with a worker. In my mind building a worker first is like a long term investment when agriculture or AH resources are nearby. It really hurts at the beginning but it speeds up growth to work more land for the 1st settler build. But, with a coastal start and a civ that starts with fishing, it seems like a blessing that we are given 2 seafood resources. Building two workboats will allow us to get the ever-important food and commerce without sacrificing population growth so we can get that settler produced quickly.

With that said I'd do workboat-workboat-warrior or workboat-warrior-workboat. A granary and lighthouse will be nice to sustain whipping. Our early research should be pretty good because we'll be able to work the water tiles right away. Early scouting will be a priority - number one for stone, because having the pyramids is advantageous for a game highlighting the use of an SE. Secondly, if we have good dotmaps on coasts than Sailing/Metal Casting might be an option for either TGL or The colossus.

I say settle in place and queue up that workboat.

I think LN is planning for the worker to farm the rice, and then do some chopping and mining. That hill 1S of the settler is especially tasty for a mine plus a free river commerce. I agree that two workers early is more than we'll need.

We are going to need mines, as otherwise we will be VERY hammer-poor in our capital. Chopping will help with settler production, but we may want a few forests for an early wonder. Also, I always hate to chop very much pre-Math.

A couple questions for the team: how do we plan to get culture for our early cities? Mysticism and monuments? Mysticism and Stonehenge? We're not aiming at an early religion, so unless we get some very lucky early spread that is out.

Also, how to handle diplomacy once we start meeting other civs? I understand the guidelines on getting team consensus for major decisions, but how do we respond to those inevitable IBT no-win demands to stop trading with such-and-so? Or demands for tribute, etc.? I think we should plan ahead of time as a team who we should treat well, and who we fear, and who we plan to crush anyway.