I have walked by Barb cities with a single warrior defended by 3 Archers and not be attacked.... I am 75% certain Joaoaoaoao beeing the "gentle" AI that he is, will not attack. If he doesnt attack and kill our warrior I think there is a good chance we can get the two workers home....
I've had the same experience with barb cities, but also the opposite (immediate attack). The AI seems to assign a purpose to its units -- if those archers have "garrison" or "explorer" assignments we would probably not be attacked.
Lisbon is some 8-10 tiles E of the stone. For now, the only resource the warrior has spotted is a calendar-hapiness-resource, outside the BFC (Incense, IIRC)
For a capital site, there have to be other resources. Hopefully they are just food -- metal or horses would make Joao a serious threat.
If Joao doesn't attack, I'm sure we would get the workers home. I have spotted no other unit than that 2nd Archer ... for whatever that means ...
Two workers would certainly be a BIG boost for us, and a corresponing hit for Joao. Even with cheap Expansive workers, that's a big investment.
Hmmm. Does that archer in Oporto have any promotions? Odds for a straight 3:2 fight aren't great, but the payoff is large. Tough one.
No, you cannot move a worker the turn it is captured, in BtS.
Thought I remembered that. Thanks for confirming.
Agreed! And because it took Sitting Bull 45 turns to come there, there's quite a chance he's a bit far away to settle that tip of land too soon ...
Let's hope so. I would like that city site, especially if it is part of a land mass big enough for SB to be 45 turns away.
Oh, you'll get your screenie ... when I'm back from work ...
No problem -- I'm just impatient. Feel free to ignore me.
IIRC, the fish is NE or E of that grass-tile NE of the stone, so a city would be Fish&Stone only ...
Not a great city, but the stone is valuable (Pyramids, Maoi, walls, other wonders) and the fish give enough food to be viable. If we don't choose immediate war with Joao, we should try to grab it.
Axe rush... Hmm, seems to be quite a longshot. You don't really expect we'll snag Stonehenge and Pyramids, optionally Oracle and Colossus after an axe rush, don't you?
We certainly have to choose among our options. I just like to throw ideas out for discussion.
I don't think we could get all those wonders, even if we focus entirely on them. I think at best we could get 3 -- Pyramids first, then if we got the Oracle and took MC, the Colossus would be ours due to the long tech time for MC.
But to do that, I expect we would have time for only a couple of settlers (gold city and stone), and would end up with Joao grabbing most of the other available land. So I don't think a pure wonder-building campaign is the best course.
However, we do have gold to fund our rush, and food to quickly regrow... We need to choose. I think if we were really to play out an Axe rush, we should stop at one, two cities and proceed to build only Axemen. I think we won't just get a good place in timing.
Well, our settler for gold city is partway done. We could whip it and put the overflow into a barracks, regrow the city while finishing the barracks, and then pump axes. Gold city would start growing, and work the gold to help pay for unit maintenance. We would probably need a couple more workers (Joao's, with some luck!
) for some chopping. Roll out a bunch of axes (and maybe a spear or archer or two, in case Joao gets chariots) and go after Portugal.
We would be delayed in tech for sure, and expansion/infra as well. But we should get a city or two from Joao (including a second capital site), and then have plenty of space for expansion. We would have to play catch up, but the extra good land should pay off in greater strength later.
I initially thought an axe rush would be a bad idea. We will probably miss out on the pyramids, be set back for TGL (unless we find marble) and have a hard time getting on our feet if it doesn't go the way we intend.
But if Jao is as close as I think he is there is no way we can let him keep expanding. I played a game against him a while ago and he was a terrible person to have shared borders with early. Our borders aren't exactly shared yet, but if we give it time they will be. I'm interested in chopping an axe army and marching over to Jao. Pyramids might not be completely lost, but it will be a long shot.
I'm also leaning toward an axe army and dealing with Joao now. I have never had good dealings with him in any game I can recall -- he is pushy about making demands, and will attack anyone he thinks is weak. Maybe my experiences have been atypical, but I think he will be trouble if we go the peaceful route.
You are probably right that it will mean not getting the Pyramids, unless we are very lucky -- no industrious AIs out there, or no one with stone, etc.
I think we need to choose settlers or barracks and axemen. The pyramids would come easy with the former. Now that their are fish near the stone it doesn't seem like a bad site to settle early (pending screenshots). I'm even of the opinion that it's worth settling early just for the 50% hammer discount on the mids. However if we choose the latter I hope Jao placed his cities right so we can keep them rather than raze. I'm also a bit worried about how far away his capital is.
I agree we need to make a choice. Chris stopped at a key moment -- if we want to go for immediate war, starting with a two-worker steal is just about perfect. If we go for settlers, I think we need to get several out ASAP and grab the sites namliaM dot-mapped: gold city, stone city, pigs + wine, cows (in roughly that order). Maybe work a galley in with a settler for horses + sheep site -- later conflict with Joao would make chariots valuable to counter axes.
Does anyone have the actual odds for an archer vs warrior fight? Just how low are our chances to get those workers, assuming the city archer attacks?
I'm leaning towards war, but if the odds are too low....
and a drain on the economy...
However, I guess this 
). Tribal Villager moves on a jungle-hill, and sees a Lion. SS spots the first Portuguese borders ...
), WB nets the 3rd clams, and Washington works them, instead of the farm.
