Long Winded Changes (LWC) Mod

Many, many thanks to daithos and Igbe for reporting the crashes and sending me a saved game, because they've allowed me to fix all known crash bugs (including the modern-era crash that's plagued LWC for quite ahwhile, even version 0.6 - 0.8!)

The website is updated, as well as the first post, and the download, so here's the short form:

-NEW VERSION (at almost exactly midnight!): LWC ERP2. Fixes all known crash bugs, adds a new unit, tweaks land unit costs, increases bombardment unit strengths (including some aircraft), changes a few tech costs, and some other changes too.

All users should (and frankly, must) upgrade to this new version. Don't worry, you won't loose your saved games! The crash bugs will be fixed, but the new units and unit changes will _not_ be present, so you'll have to start a New Game to get the changes.

Note: This copies over the current add-on packs, so reinstall those after upgrading. There is also no need to uninstall/reinstall Civ3 :)


So no reason not to upgrade :)


And a request:

-REQUEST: EMAIL ME YOUR LWC SAVED GAMES! Zip 'em up, tell me what version of the LWC mod it is, and make them an attachment to an email to aemuli@yahoo.com

This goes for ALL versions, well into the future until I tell people to stop doing it!

Throughout the course of the game, if you wouldn't mind, save the games at the begining, middle, and end of each age. Exclude only the early and middle ancient age, as I have no need for those. I most desire saves from the late Middle Ages on, and personally prefer those from the difficulty levels of Regent or Monarch. However, I want the other ones too :)

This may also turn into a unique feature of the LWC mod later on, because when I get a good solid version of the LWC that everyone can play for multiple days/weeks I will request people send in some saves, which I can play around with and turn into a special kind of Scenario!

I'm not sure exactly why, but playing a game someone else has already started is really quite enjoyable, and I find I can learn alot from it (and I'm sure others can too). I have many, many, many ideas for this, but for now I want the saves strictly for testing. Most of the LWC changes take effect towards the end of the middle ages, and I don't want to have to play all the way from the begining just to get there and decide something should be tweaked :P

Oh, and you don't have to be a really good player either, or even have been playing Civ3 that long! Behind or ahead, good or bad strategies, it doesn't matter to me!



Enjoy!
 
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :goodjob:

Very sweet! What ever you did it did the trick. I can now go on. It was great that I did not have to start over either ;) Thanks for a kick ass mod because this game is way more playable with it.

Thanks again!

John
 
Wow it can get better! heh I mean I hate those crashes :mad: But you got them fixed, you are once again my hero :)
Any details on what to expect in the future versions of the mod? (New ideas you want to impliment?) Somethings to look forward to heh.
 
yeah, i was in the modern ages and didn't know why the game would keep crashing, fot a little fustrated and then finally uninstalled and reinstalled civ three :(

i didn't know this was a bug in the mod but the new one is supposed to fix this cool.

and also, whats the website that the mod is at?
 
cheers for the updated mod plutarck. Ive compeleted my game and won by conquest in the early modern era. (tiny map, emporer)

Im going to try on a large map on deity now, with this fantastic mod you have produced. Hopefully i will actually be able to get to the late middle ages so I can send these save games in... havent been having much luck with deity so far.

Your mod does a nice job of balancing out combat, paratroopers are actually useful now, and no more useless swordman in the modern age.

Im not sure how I feel about the way luxury resources disappear, makes things a pain to manage with your cities happiness if your playing without the governor (might disable there disappearance for now)

Something funny was happening with mills though, once I had built a factory, the mill was replaced (and put back in the build queue). If I rebuilt the mill I my production increaded.

Look forward to the next updates.
 
By the way everyone, I forgot to mention: Caravels no longer sink in the ocean in ERP2!

So be sure to take that into account, and don't think you have to leave them in the seas and coasts.

The reason being that waiting till the very end of the middle ages to cross the ocean seemed unreasonable (Columbus did it, and if I recall correctly it was before Magnetism came into use. The game even mentions on the Coracle that Columbus chanced the ocean waters, but the games chance to sink seems about 90% higher than it should be :) )

Trade over oceans still won't open until Navigation or Magnetism, though, just like with Hullmaking (the galleys/warships can travel the seas, but trade doesn't open until Astronomy).

Should make things a lot more interesting in the middle ages (Astronomy is about as valuable now as it was originally, if not more so), so be sure to note that in deciding how you'll progress through the age.


Note: I realized I didn't mention it anywhere but in the mod, but the new unit is the Trebuchet! It comes available with Feudalism, and is nearly as powerful as the Canon use to be. But the Canon is now stronger too.

Originally the problem was that the 1dt bombard unit came available in the early ancient, but the 2nd one came nearly at the end of the Middle Ages! It just didn't seem right, and I'm hoping now that the bombard line of units will now be powerful and useful enough for people to build them (especially with Canon, now that it has 3 rate of fire). If they're overly strong I may increase their cost more, but we'll figure that out with testing.


Realm: Well it is linked in the first post (towards the bottom), but here it is again :D http://207.191.20.18/civ3/index.html



Igbe: Excellant, glad it's working again! And I'm glad you like it :D



KALIROB2k2: Well, for now I want to further smooth out all the units (make sure they're all properly inline, especially to properly increase their costs so modern armor isn't so easily built in 2-4 turns in 10+ citys), make sure the technology costs are properly inline and working to my satisfaction, and ensure the way I played with resources is for the best. Especially with the disappearing luxurys, as daithos mentioned :)

In the future I expect to add a few wonders great and small, more city improvements, and things of that nature.

But as soon as I get the game working fully (worked out all the bugs and major tweaks)...well, or almost fully, I want to go ahead and rip out the government system and totally redo it, even with the limited features available.

There are just so many reasons, and it's quickly becoming the most obvious negative point in the entire game.



daithos: Excellant, excellant, and excellant! :D

Yeah, the luxurys are probably the most questionable change to resources, but they should still clump together alot, so as long as you've been sure to connect them all to your roads it's rare that you suddenly loose access.

Also, I personally set the governer to manage citizen moods in all citys. It really, REALLY cuts down on micro-management, and you get to avoid riots 90%+ of the time. So that can help smooth things out a bit.


But with Mill, that definately is odd. I definately don't know why factory replaces it (btw, did you notice if mill was still listed as being in the city after you built factory?), because only power plants should effect the mill by replacing it. :confused:
 
I think it was actually when I build the hover damn that the mill was replaced, sorry wasnt paying as much attention as I should have been.

But I could definately rebuild it and get extra production, I will try and take better note this game, although I doubt I will be able to get the hoverf damn on deity, but hey, ill look into this and get back to u.

As for the govenor, well on a tiny map (which is what I play the most) I prefer to manage the citizens, maximise the production of cities properly in there early days, I switch them to govenor once they are about 15+

Im going to take a good note of things in this game, and try and give you some better feedback.
 
I loaded the erp2 w/ unit icon mod on the 10th, tried out a chieten game as Germans to putz around a map and get the feel for things... Crashed @ 50bc invalid page fault. sent save to plutarc. Anyone else havin trouble:(
 
From the changelog:

-NEW VERSION: LWC ERP3. This version fixes bugs (like a missing unit folder, among others), adds some customized cilvilopedia graphics, contains many updates of the civilopedia (as well as fixes some errors it contained originally), and tweaks quite a many different settings and unit stats.

All users should upgrade to this new version, because you won't loose your saved games! In short, there's no reason not to upgrade. And remember: Send in those saved games!



Pushing the file size now, lol, but it still just fits :D
 
JC Woodman: When i first got the mod I acidentaly dumped the units into the "Art" main folder insead of 'Art/Units' that resulted in crashes after a couple dozen turns in the games i tried. check to make shure ya got all the stuff in the right folders.
 
Plutarck: Here is some stuff...a couple ideas and my thoughts on some of the issues you asked about in Changelog.txt.
I emailed a version of this to ya but im posting it here to see if anyone has any thoughts on it.

Quote from changelog.txt: "Multiple Units: From the late Middle Ages on, units are now more expensive to
build (will be tweaked more as I get more information
and more debate occurs). In the early Industrial Age it's not unusual for Cavalry to take 1-3 turns to
build in medium sized cities (12-15), which isn't
desirable. I want to hear what everyone thinks about this. Should units be more expensive later on? Less? Tell me what you think!"

IMHO 1-3 turns seems a bit short for construction of a fairly powerful unit like Cavalry, it gives yet another advantage to defenders. 2-4 turns might be more desirable and make ppl have to be more strategic and careful with their units.

*************************
Quote from changelog.txt: "ISSUE: With bombard units no longer being capturable because of their non-0 defense value (except missles), will the increased movement (and thus the ability to flee) be a bad combination? I'm thinking it will be fine, but we'll see."

I personally think that capturable artillery is a cool idea. catapults, cannons and other things that are pieces of equipment you carry around with you should be stealable. (they have operators that could theoretically defend them but artillery teams are small and in some cases not even armed) However Artillery that is a self contained armored vehicle should perhaps have a def value.
Catapults and Trebs should not have movement increased for purely realistic reasons. the are massive, heavy, unwieldy objects. Cannon and Artillery should perhaps move faster since they are often horse or jeep drawn. (light artillery like mortars are sometimes small enough to be carried in a soldiers backpack...) Units like Radar artillery since they are mounted on vehicals should have good movement rates.

BTW i aprove highly of powering up artilary.
IMHO Civ3 artilary is only about 2/3 as strong as it should be, 1-2 hp off one unit in a crowd isnt exactly stellar. My problem with Civ3 artillary is not dmg but shots taken. In Alpha Centauri/Alien Crossfire artillary takes a shot at every unit in the target square(even if it didn't hurt them, the artillary in that game was terrible unless you MODed it)
Im not sure I understand the 'rate of fire' stat since i havent had much need or oportunity to use the arty later in the game(the ones with a Rof of 2) but perhaps a way to fix artillary would be not to increase its Attack power dramatically but to jack up its RoF?
********************


I do have another question however: Have you writen Civlopedia entrys for the new units and techs?
If you havent i would be happy to write some of those for you.
I have some knoledge of Trebuchtes so ill post this as an example.

"The Trebucehte, while identical in purpose differs markedly from the catapult; it is essentially a large free-swinging lever. A heavy weight, generally lead or sand, is attached to one end. A sling arangement is attached to the other-generally longer-end. The projectile is fixed in the sling and the weighted end is hoisted up. When the weight is released the lighter end is whiped upward with startling force The projectile is released from the sling a little past the apex of the lever's swing sending it hurtling tward its target. Historically a wide variety of projectiles were used including stone balls, lead shot, weighted burning rags and even dead horses. Trebuchets were easily capable of throwing 300 pound stone balls hundreds of yards with enough power to breach castle walls. They were a greatly feared siege weapon for many years until the advent of cannon."
*********************

Why does the wheel lead to "Horseback Riding"?
they seem semi unrelated to me. If your thinking horsedraw carts your uh...
puting the cart before the horse ;-) ...maybe it was just a matter of neccesety.
Is there a limit to the number of first lvl techs?
Also about the Saddle tech...IRL do you need saddles to ride horses efectivly?
I thought the American Idians rode bareback and they had some of the best mounted soldiers ever.
**********************

Idea for another anient age tech: Animal Husbandry:
This would make Game(?), Cattle, and Horses apear on the map(why game you ask? because with this knoledge man would have such things as dogs which would make hunting small game easyer)(rename ivory to elaphants and they could go on the list too, esp since india and a few other places use them for domestic work as well as war). It should be cheap since its origins are almost gaurntyed to happen by acident(camp following dogs for example). It would prob lead to Horseback Riding. Domesticating amimals is just as much a learned skill as any of the other basic skills represented by the early techs.


Thats it for now. Im a bit longwinded too :-)
 
Hello,,I just downloaded your LWC mod and started my first game .. I don`t know if its because of your maod as i havent read all the read all the changes other than whats been posted in this thread.
But,,the year is only 3000bc ,Im playing as the russians (i use random civ to make it interesting) ..The game has just been started and already i`ve lost 2 pop points due to disease..I only have 5 jungle tiles in my city radius which doesnt seem like alot since i`ve played other games where the whole city was jungle and didnt have any disease for the just about the whole game.
Well my point is i`m wondering if this is because of your mod or if its just bad luck..it seemed out of the ordinary so thats why i`m asking.
thanks
Also some of the techs on the tech tree were overlapping and the faces on the techs are floating all over..
 
Wishlist:

If you have a big army but don't use it and have a low approval rating, there should be a military coup, and your government goes into anarchy.

Likewise, there should be riots and such if you don't play peacefully enough.

Also, a kind of helicopter that has a decent attack rating would be cool. As of now, we have a Fighter that is primarily anti-air and a Bomber that is primarily anti-ground, but we should have a copter that is = in both.

Also, barbarians are trouble early in the game, but later there is no threat of non-political interference. There should be terrorists that spring up within low-culture countries after the discovery of Rocketry. The terrorists would attack powerful nations and nations with representative governments. They wouldn't have units - Their work would be undercover. They would destroy improvements and small wonders, steal money and kill people like barbarians do, but they could strike from afar. If you are the victim of terrorist attacks, you could try to convince their harbor nation to destroy their camp, or get a RoP and do it yourself. This may lead to war if the harboring nation doesn't want to take out the camps.

Also, there should be options for things like Genocide: You have a decrease in population and suffering world opinion in exchange for money and happy citizens.

There should be a way to take hostages in a war. If you defeat a foot soldier unit (not horse or wheeled/treaded) you should be able to take a few soldiers hostage. They could then be:

a) Interrogated: Bring the hostage(s) back to a city. If you have a barracks in that city, you could get information about the country you got the hostage from (similar to espionage.)

b)Released: Release the hostage to improve your opponent's likelihood of negotiating for a treaty.

c)Held: Use the hostage as a bartering chip in peace negotiations.

d)Sacrificed: Available only under a religious civ: Bring the hostage back to a city with a temple for an increase in overall happiness. (This would become less useful later in the game because the happiness bonus would be a flat number, not a percentage.)
 
You should probably change "sattle" to "stirrup". The invention of the stirrup was one of the most important developments in mounted warfare, as it provided a stable platfom from which lances could be effectively hurled for the first time.
 
I don't know if its just mine or what but i made a mounted scout and like it wasn't on a horse or anything and like it could sort of defend it self but when something would try to attack it, the mounted scout would just stand there and like the attacker would get hurt and die :confused:
 
I have been playing with this mod since I first found it a couple of months ago, and I have to say, without it, Civ3 is much less fun...

Thank you for the excellent work!!

Now if only we could add more civs...

I have finally taken the time to say thanks

THANKS!!

Realm: I see that too... must be something about not being able to attack - can't use attck animation and no animation for defending? I don't mind though - I seem to have better success defending with scouts than warriors...

Plutarck: one question - how do you have the patience? Glad you do, because I wouldn't :lol:
Any other ideas for changes?
 
Plutarck, do you know how long it will be before you overhaul the governments? Cos' I think government inbalances is number one on my Things To Hate About Civ (tm) list. I mean, republic and democracy are unusable, since their economic advantages are far outweighed by the lack of unit support. I think you should be able to support a small number of units (say 1,1,1 (town,city,metro) for republic and 1,2,3 for democracy). Also, cos' you don't have military police, people tend to be more unhappy under rep/dem than anything else, when if anything they should be happier. I think that under these governments you should get extra 'free' content people over and above what your difficulty allows. Anyway, the changes you've made so far are great, and the game is sooo much more playable. I'll shut up now ;)
 
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