Long Winded Changes (LWC) Mod

[J C Woodman]

I won two games playing the ERP-3/ wIrrigation graphic mod. and had NO CRASHES!!! It seems to be very stable now. I made it a point to build every new or modified unit and improvement/wonder...All good. Anybody know if the non-depleting resources mod I'm seeing posted could be used in conjunction w/ the ERP- scenarios?? Also as noted above Naval "Armies would be Da-bomb!

 

[joost1110]

The attack of the cannons is also screwed up. Instead of attacking the square they are supposed too, they attack the square next to it, I'm not sure if it's turned clockwise or counter-clockwise

 

[J C Woodman]

Reading Plutarck's comments on the prev. I am thinkin that ther have been additions since I loaded ERP-3 on 1-16-02... Is this the case?

 

[Goat_Guy]

Plutark...i have found another "bug"

WHen playing CIv3, and i tried to load a saved game that has been used w\ LWC2 and 3(if that matters). It loads it and then says:

Datal0 Operation System Error: LNSL


What does this mean????? im really mad, i had a great game...ifu need a saved game...ill give u one


please hurry w\ a solution....thanx

 

[krenn]

Plutark. Not sure if this is a bug. I find that the resources seem to disappear at a regular basis and do not seem to return very quickly (if at all). I was playing a game and lost horses, iron, coal and they never returned in my land area. Looking over the AI's land, those resources never disappeared. Also, can you explain the percentage chance of a fortified rifleman (veteran) in the mountains losing to knights on a consistant basis? Same game, AI was unstoppable, conquered cities with great ease even though they were heavily defended. Playing on warlord level. Great modpack though, easier to find resources now, keep up the great work.

 

[Lord Thorium]

It seems to me that the AI has always had an unfair advantage when it comes to war.

 

[homer]

in ERP3, is there a reason that calvary cannot pillage or is this just an oversight? Im in a game and sent some calvary to tear up the enemies economy and noticed the pillage option was not available to them.

Great mod though! Im looking forward to ERP 4!!!

 

[Lovro]

Originally posted by joost1110
The attack of the cannons is also screwed up. Instead of attacking the square they are supposed too, they attack the square next to it, I'm not sure if it's turned clockwise or counter-clockwise

I had the problem with Artillery also, but before using the LWC Mod (v1.16f). When I bombarded a city the Artillery would fire anywhere but towards the city.

 

[arebelongtous!]

Hey Plutarck,

First of all, I've played ERP3 from begining to end (1990) and it works great. I've had a lot of fun with it. I wanted to give you some feedback on what I noticed.

1) I believe there is a small bug in the strategic resources removal/replacement. When the game started, there was iron all over the place. By the end, when I owned 3/4 of the map, I had 1 iron supplying my whole civilization (this was actually one of my main motivators to go out and kill another civilization). So, while that is an interesting side affect, I don't think you were aiming for that.

2) In the industrial ages and later, I think there are too many infantry ground forces. Shock troops, machine gunners, infantry, etc. The way I see it, there should be two vehicle and two infantry at a time (1 offense and 1 defense each). I know that different forces have different ability (naval attack, airlift, airdrop, etc.), but honestly it was just too much work to figure out how to use them all effectively so I didn't build most of the units that were available. Or.. if you like having lots of units, perhaps you should really differentiate them. Like a ground unit with low attack/defense and 3 move. Or a unit with super high attack/defense that has 1 move on any terrain (including roads and rail). Just so that there is a significant reason to choose between one or the other.

3) I think you know this, but the civilopedia is broken in a bunch of places. I still have no idea what the guild hall does (although I build one in every city anyway..)

4) I have no idea if the computer does this all the time or if the mod played some role here, but the computer (on Monarch) made some REALLY stupid strategic decisions during the game. I got attacked by three different civilizations that had absolutely no chance of winning (as in they were dead 4 turns later). Is it possible that changing the units confuses the AI and causes it to make poor(er) decisions?

Thanks again,

This mod is great!

 

[Plutarck]

Lovro: The civilopedia is mostly fixed now, with all the functional errors removed.

A big civilopedia update will basically require going through the entire thing and fixing any error, and probably adding a few things too (man, does their Concepts section suck or what?). I doubt I'll be doing that anytime soon, as it's alot of work for little pay off.

But for the entrys everyone actually uses (like seing what Guild Hall actually does...which is simply to reduce corruption), that'll mostly be available in ERP4. I don't feel like rechecking it all, so just report any and all errors and I'll get 'em fixed


Ripley: No idea what's up with that, but I'm guessing it's civ3's fault.


PepsiFizz:

New Stuff - Those 2 later things are pretty much just there for the heck of it, though they are indeed unimportant.

However with the addition of National Bank and National Constitution, along with the old Forbidden Palace, there should be enough options to fight corruption now.

I think it's just peachy now playing on Monarch, though I'm sure it's still a little high for some people's taste.

Shakespeare - Yup, definately a bug. Whoops! Thanks for reportingi t

Pioneer - The Pioneer is only for Expansionist civs, and Upgrade is the only way to get rid of the option of the old Settler in favor of it's replacement.

Non-expansionist civs won't notice anything at all.

3 pop Settler - I've pretty well decided against this one, because frankly...I kinda hate it. It just slows everything down entirely too much, but having 4 cost instead of 3 seems to be the ideal fix. Slows the crazy expansion quite nicely, I think, yet it doesn't feel as if the game is that much slower.

Shrine - Thanks for reminding me of that, and I've decided to go ahead and add it. It also allows me to give Polytheism that extra increased value I had wanted it to have by moving Temple to it, though moving Hanging Gardens to it also did that. Hopefully it'll make the ancient age a bit more interesting.

Hospitals - Not a bad idea, but for now I'm leaving it alone. Otherwise I'd have to figure out what to use to replace Sewer System...


J C Woodman:

The non-disappearing one can't be used, but you could always open up the mod in the editor, go to the Natural Resources tab, then set all the disappearance rates to 0.

But with ERP4 they won't move around nearly so much. They were definately hoppin' all over the darn place, but it seems more calm now.


Goat_Guy:

You'll have to send me the .sav, cause I have no idea what causes that error. Never heard of it before.


krenn:

Don't know what's up with the Pikeman thing. Fortified on a Mountain a 3 defense pikeman has a modified defense rating of 6.75. So with a Knight it would be 6 vs 6.75, and if both veteran the Knight has a 42% chance of winning.

And what you're noticing is a bug in civ3, in that disappearance apparently occassionally means actual "it's not on the map anymore". This is vastly improved in ERP4, and you probably won't notice that problem much anymore.

Though I haven't changed the appearance ratio of anything...but luxurys won't disappear anymore, and everything else won't disappear so much.


arebelongtous!:

1) See above.

2) I agree, though I don't really know how to fix it. Shock Troops are just a kind of "Special Unit" now, powerful but can give a good hit on your population (same as settler now).

Paratroopers airdrop, marines and amphibious, and the machine gunner is the only normal one of the bunch.

You are right though in that there are too many right then, but it does clear up as soon as you get Computers, and completely with Synthetic Materials.

3) Fixed (mostly) in ERP4

4) I too just played a game on Monarch, but I believe this is just Civ3 itself. With me the AI kept sending it's units in small little waves, like a complete imbecile, allowing me plenty of time to waste each set and get back into my citys, get full HP, then go out and wipe out the next batch.

That was the Greeks though. The French I mostly just wasted outright...they weren't quite so stupid though, but they won't win any awards for "Ingenious Tactics" from me either.

It's just the case of how badly the AI invades. Really, it just implements it for crap, allowing a strong force with a good strategy to end up slaughtered one by one, usually leading to a big follow-up AI defeat.

I don't think the mod makes it any worse, and I only wish I could make it better...*sigh*




ERP4 on it's way out, and if I may say so: I've really outdone myself on this one, and in a major way. Shwew!

 

[krenn]

Plutarck: Thanks for the fast reply, you must be awful busy right now. It was not a pikeman, but a fortified musket infantry. Also happened with non-fortified riflemen in mountains against knights.

Also noticed that the AI civs still demand way too much in terms of trading resources and tech. Usually ask for tons of cash, technology and luxuries/resources for a simple territory map. Is this a bug or just the AI's way of a sick joke

Again, keep up the great work, looking forward to the next installement of LWC.

 

[Plutarck]

Yes, ERP4 is now out and available for download.

*wipes brow*

Jeesh, it easily has over 15 hours of non-stop work between ERP3 and ERP4 (probably 20+, though I wasn't really counting), and is definately worth upgrading, or getting it for the first time


Check the first post for details, and check the website at http://lwc.realmofgaming.net for addons and other info.


Enjoy, and I await all your feedback

 

[Puffer Fish]

Nice One on erp4. I'm playing your erp3 version on Monarch and am really enjoying the changes. It is much better and it is definitely more of a challenge than the original rules. I know that you must put a lot of work in to it tuning tweak and improving (Firaxis could learning something) your mod.

I'm near the end of the industrial age and have many saves. I'm on a large map with continents and it is all nicely poised. Everybody has about the same tech level and all have large continent based empires. Probably make a good scenario so I'll let you have the saves in the near future.

Again thanks for your efforts

 

[chosen5]

*cough* *looks around* *twiddles fingers* grapes are a fruit...

 

[Puffer Fish]

Just one thing from your changes - been reading about the aircraft vs ships and think you may need to reconsider the statement:

'It's not like aircraft can really sink ships anyway '

The threat from aircraft in WWII affectively put an end to large battleships as a breed (take Bismarck - wasn't sank but torpodoes from biplanes allowed British warships to catch it and finish it off). Also just ask us Brits about the Exocet missile in the Falklands war and watch us cringe. This missile almost caused us to lose this war.

Can see it is difficult to get a balance in the game though.

PS I've got fruit - just no picture in the non-labelled resource pcx

 

[Plutarck]

AHA! AHA, I say, AHA!

I believe I now have reasonable confirmation of my hypothesis, which I believe was the cause of quite a few era change crashes. And it's not me, but the freakin' download!


It appears to me that somehow, early on after a release (or some small time thereafter), some people download the file and rather than getting the new version, they get the old version!

I also had a problem with the website doing this, where I updated it and someone said that they were only seing old information- not what I had newly updated.


I haven't a clue what does it, either. I downloaded the file both from here and apolyton to check it, and both are the correct version. And the file I uploaded (I always keep them) is in fact the correct file.

So there are 3 situations which would explain these occurances, and 0-3 may actually be occuring (or all are occurring, but none are the problem):

1) Caching. Either through browser, proxy, or 'other', the page/file is somehow being cached. For the page itself this makes sense, but not with the file.

2) Forum oddness. When the file is moved around on the server to be properly placed and listed for download, it may somehow get delayed so that some people get the old version, while everyone there after get the new one.

3) Faulty installation. Either pointing to the wrong directory or, equally likely, not overwriting a file when prompted.



So for those having problems, redownload the file. Once it's done open the zip file, then open the changelog.txt file. If the first date listed is "01/24/01" (yeah it should be /02, but I made a mistake in typing...lol), then it's the correct zip file.

Try unzipping the file again then seing again if you have the right verion.


If this doesn't solve your problem, be sure to post/email about it so I can try to get to the bottom of it.




Puffer Fish:

Hold on there, I already agree with you

What I meant by "It's not like aircraft can really sink ships anyway", is the in Civ3 aircraft can't sink ships. Well, apparently they kinda can, but being that you can't bombard a ship with 1 HP, it makes things rather difficult.

You could reduce the HP of course, but it's a trade-off I had to make in this instance. Equally so is that ships bombarding other ships past the early industrial age won't be all that successful, because that's when defense goes way above bombard ability.


So actually I believe that aircraft _should_ be able to sink ships, and they _do_ sink ships in real life, but in Civ3 they _can't_ - which is what I meant there

See, I'm perfectly innocent


Oh, and glad your enjoying the mod. I believe that ERP4 is alot better, as I've dealt with some issues I hadn't even heard about before (like how the Musketman was actually a step down from Pikeman in many ways) and gets that way about as soon as you get halfway through the Middle Ages. Basically post-gunpowder and post-Astronomy, things definately get alot more interesting.

Enjoy it once you've finished your current game, and sounds like an excellant one

I often have trouble getting good even games, because I almost always get into a war at the begining of the Middle Ages, which typically allows me to increase my lands by 75% before halfway through the Middle Ages. A blessing and a curse, hehe.

But thanks to the mod, that means I'm only in the lead, now that I can't get hurt.

It's the AI that ensures I can't be hurt Bah!




EDIT: BTW, the "Fruit" is actually called "Fruit", not "Grapes", though Grapes are a part of the mod.

The 2 added resources are Fruit and Oasis.

And if there isn't an icon for it in the resource.pcx file...hmm, gotta check my label file...

...well, damn.

Ok, try redownloading the non-labeled resource file from the website if you don't have a graphic.

Kinda put the wrong version of it in the file...tee, hee.

 

[Goat_Guy]

I dont really like the idea of having the LWC ERP4 as a scenario. I cant play my old saves w\ the new mod....or would they now work anyway???

 

[Realm]

Does anyone know if its safe to try to use other mods of custom civs with this mod? Or, has anyone tried it and run into any problems because I'm thinking of getting a few mods of other civs and don't want to have problems because different mod packs.

Oh, and I just got the new erp4 version, can't wait to try it out

 

[Natel]

Instead of installing the game again, any other way to restore back to normal ??

 

[Realm]

Not if you didn't back up files before you went in and overwritted the original files or put in the files from the mod.