Looking for advice

[Nergal]

Looking for advice, its my first real Emperor game. I think I've got a relatively good position. But I need advice. Cant go to Republic as unit costs floor me. I've just traded for Monarchy, so its a possiblity. Fought off the Arabs and Shaka, and have 7 settlement spots to fill. The land is a bit rough so growth is slow, plus no water. I'm not sure whether to build the GL and pull some of the early medieval techs as freebies, but 41 turns is a bit steep. I do have a monopoly on Lit and spare luxuries though. BUt the AIs are pretty reluctant to trade. Any advice would be helpful.

 

[Tone]

29 spears? That's a lot of wasted shields IMO. You have three luxes hooked up and so how many MPs do you actually need in those cities? If they are there to defend the towns, then the best form of defence is offense so I'd much rather see chariots than spears in those rear towns. If someone lands on your shores, you attack them rather than wait for your spears to be attacked.

The land you have started on is pretty tough, with limited growth potential so you could run republic and disband those spears but I guess that's not your style. When going for Republic, I don't think about unit costs once I can revolt, I think about them well before and stopped production of units that were not needed much earlier. I would also have explored a bit more so that I had knowledge of the surrounding lands so that I knew if there were any decent lands to conquer nearby. You need to do this early in the game before borders expand and the AI starts booting your troops out. I would have spent my shields producing harbours, markets and 'ducts to try and get some more growth in my core and used the outer towns to produce workers.

Looking at the save, I'd give the iron hill to Alexandria to get it up to 10spt and then pump out war chariots every other turn, or maybe swords every three turns. Surely what you need is offensive units, not more spears, so switch all spear builds. If you don't like the idea of disbanding existing spears, send most of them into battle, get some more workers built to get roads all the way to the front and steamroller your foes whilst in Despotism. Pop rush temples in your conquered cities-it's a good way of getting rid of foreign citizens. (I'm not normally keen on temples but when playing a REL civ in Despotism, I reserve the right to change my mind!) Meanwhile I'd develop the rest of my core by building key improvements, using the forest chops to help speed it up. Then maybe consider Republic once you have more cities, less units and trade routes set up with those that you want to be buddies with.

 

[Flak509]

You seem to have a good size piece of land, but still some settling to do before others start to land and settle it.

I see that ur at war, id try to use war chariots they are fast and cheap. Dont bother defending the hills that you hold round elephantine send those units into cities or use them for attack. I disagre with not having spear in ur rear cities, biuld the fastest units in ur rear cities as they are not at iminent risk, warriors are fine for a start, then spearmen as they grow. Have a few chariots in the rear spread around. The goal is to hold up an enemy til ur main force can assist. But i doubt ur southern cities will get attacked just now.

Id take monarchy just now, ur town are too small to support republic, when all ur settlement spots are taken and u have ur main cities up at 6 then maybe you can go republic but not till then.

You also need water, maybe try to find out using a galley if ur island even has water, if it does ur gonna have to fight ur way up to it and drag it down using a small army of workers.

As for all that i think ur doing ok, with a good chance to walk out on top

 

[Nergal]

I played on a while ... its been fun ... No water on the island ... and due to an accident no Zulus either ...
I've taken a pile of cities of the Zulu. I'm up to 36. I may post another save when I get chance.

I avoided War Chariots like crazy, I dont like Despotism and Golden Ages, they just dont mix and arent worth it IMO. Built lots of swords, took a couple of towns off the Zulu and killed a lot of his troops. Made peace, for a tech and some cash. Then went to .... cue drum roll ... Feudalism.

I checked in Civ Assist, I even made the changes and tried but both Monarchy and Republic put my economy into the red by a serious amount. I should post this in stories and tales. So I'm in Feudalism, pop rushing temples, markets and harbours when I can. I'd seen another settler site up the Western Arm, almost opposite Zimbabwe. Sent a settler and a couple of AC over to claim it. The Zulu go to war again. I'd made some good trades though, techs and gpt for lux and resources. Seems I have a bit of a hold on the Iron market. 100% research and making 25gpt profit wasnt bad. Put me better than Monarchy, and due to the lux slider better than Republic either.
I waste the Zulu with archers AC and Med Inf. THe extra spears got upgraded to pikes so I could stop towns culture flipping due to my low culture. As someone said, I starved them down to pop 1 then let them grow. Made peace with the Zulu, for techs and 2 cities, on another island.

The advantages of Religious, switched to Republic, because my economy can now handle it and keep going. Having a stockpile of cash, I can now rush with that. Tried trading but the best offer for furs and Ivory was 8gp ... I dont trade that cheap.
As the towns grew, so did the unhappiness, switch to ... Monarchy ... everybody happy, research up to a decent level and I'm not far off Mil Trad.

Its 1200 Ad ... I'm still alive .... ... Scorewise the Celts ... damn their agri trait are running at around 1400 points, the Romans on 1300 or so and I'm on 1200 ish. I've got Iron and Horse to spare, about 2 of each. I've got plenty of furs, Ivory and gems. I have 2 Salt as well so Cavalry are on the cards. Mpondo, on the East coast of the western arm, had 2 gems, its also got jungle and marsh so I'm hopeful of coal, possibly rubber.

I built SoZ, got the Lighthouse and Colossus from Zimbabwe, they built Knight Templar in Ulundi, just as my AC arrived on the doorstep so it made a nice house warming gift.

I need to spend an hour or so shuffling troops. I can bring the swords I used for hunting barbarians ( try 4 horse rushes) North, and upgrade some pikes to muskets and garrison my towns more efficiently. Then I think my mobile force is going to aim Northwards. The eastern territory was purely Zulu, and thats all mine now. To the north there appears to be a lot of marsh and jungle There is one Hittite town I can see, its not well defended. And then its the Greeks. So I'm probably going to hit the Greeks with AC and Cavalry supported by Med Inf.

 

[Ringo Kid]

Seems to me I would build war chariots over swordsmen. Combined with a stack of Ancient cavalry thats an awesome early military. Power and speed. Good combo.

And by all means put all those spears and swords you have in a big stack and go whack somebody with them, switch to republic and get as much growth happening as you can in your core.

I would not worry about tech at the moment, you have an advantage militarily until knights come along- so enjoy it while you can.

 

[Nergal]

This is a weird game even for me. I know I shouldnt be switching govs so much but I'm not actually wasting too many turns. About 6 all told and it takes me 20 to research a tech minimum. War chariots are just fast archers, same cost and attack/def. I'm not impressed and havent built any. I'm planning an Industrial GA, there are more important techs around and I think more useful buildings that would benefit from being built quickly.
The good news is I'm in a position to strike the Greeks. I need to scout their territory by being cheeky first but all the troops are in place and MT isnt far off.
The bad news, sort of, is no water, no irrigation anywhere I can see. So my food is going to stay low until Electricity. I think thats the reason my economy is shot to pieces and Republic wont work. My best towns are size 7 and growing slowly. But it might have an upside. I'm strong in military terms and rich in resources and lux so most of the AI are polite. My score is 3rd so I dont look to be a huge threat to anyone in terms of winning. If I grew significantly then my score would probably double. That would make a huge threat and I'd be at war in a flash.
Current plans are take out the Greeks. Athens has Leos and I want it. Plus its a scientific out of the game so no freebie trading aroung the AIs. The Arabs are in a weak position and well behind on techs. The Zulus are confined to a couple of islands I think. The English arent in a good position either so I'm not worried about them. I'm considering building galleons and frigates then hitting the Celts with a MA with Rome, or maybe the other way around. It depends who is strongest. I want one dead and the other significantly weakened.

 

[vmxa]

Avaris making rax and nets 1 shields why would elect to do that? Why build anything there, I would sell the harbor and pop out a worker. Nothing should have been done in this place with no access to water.

Lisht is the same story, though it does have some net gold, but that has cost you a lot so far.

Buto ditto. Now you are spending time to make a temple, that may at least make it payoff later. Do sell it after borders pop.

How many of these place did you put up a harbor and now a temple as Edfu is a carbon copy. You are netting 1 gold form most of these places, why put in more good money after bad? You will not be able to get them to size 7 in time to do much.

I skipped some of these town, but Busiris is a bad plan. It has a rax for what reason I cannot fathom and is getting a lib. Why is that? You do realize that you have 0 beakers in that place?

I see many structures that make no sense to me, like a barrack in a town that is not going to come under attack and cannot build units in any timely fashion.

You have 95 maint and those sructures are the reason. You are about to pay 160 shields for cath and then 2 gpt for maint, you cannot afford it. You are running 70% on taxes and making +8gpt.

That is not going to get it done. I know the land is bad, but you have to go get more land.

Cath in a size 3 town, what are you thinking? DO NOT build them. You do not need them.

It is makes no sense to not have explored the land near you. You do know that you pay maint on AC and Crusaders, right. I would rather see you not have more than a few spears, need to sell them off and make Knight and get on the attack.

So nearly half of your income is going for maint and support, no wonder you cannot research.

Time to trim the fat and take some land. Did nt check on the shipping, but you are going to need some to get to the next landmass. Too bad you cannot see what they look like.
























Avaris making rax and nets 1 shields why would elect to do that? Why build anything

there,I would sell the harbor and pop out a worker. Nothing should have been done

in this place wit no access to water.

Lisht is the same story, though it does have some net gold, but that has cost you a

lot so far.

Buto ditto. Now you are spend ing time to make a temple, that may at least make it

payoff later. Do sell it after borders pop.

How many of these place did you put up a harbor and now a temple as Edfu is a

carbon copy. You are netting 1 gold form most of these places, why put in more good

money after bad? You will not be able to get them to size 7 in time to do much.


I skipped some of these town, but Busiris is a bad plan. It has a rax for what reason I cannot fathom and is getting a lib. Why is that? You do realize that you have 0 beakers in that place?

I see many structures that make no sense to me, like a barrack in a town that is not going to come under attack and cannot build units in any timely fashion.

You have 95 maint and those sructures are the reason. You are about to pay 160 shields for cath and then 2 gpt for maint, you cannot afford it. You are running 70% on taxes and making +8gpt.

That is not going to get it done. I know the land is bad, but you have to go get more land.

Cath in a size 3 town, what are you thinking? DO NOT build them. You do not need them.

It is makes no sense to not have explored the land near you. You do knnow that you pay maint on AC and Crusaders, right. I would rather see you not have more than a few spears, need to sell them of and make Knight and get on the attack.

So nearly half of your income is going for maint and support, no wonder you cannot research.

 

[Nergal]

Actually the problem is water. Or lack of it. No water means means my unit support under Republic is about a third of what it should be because the towns arent growing. I've now got 39 towns, a few of which are size 7 or 8 but mostly they are under that. Under Republic they would support 117 troops if they were all of size 7 plus. That would be a huge amount of commerce to invest. Trimming my towns produced about 40gpt which upped my research a little so Education takes 10 turns instead of 13. Anyway back to the water. If there were rivers, I would be laughing all the way to the bank. My captials best terrain is 2 food 1 shield and 1 commerce. Under Republic it would be 2-1-2, which over 39 towns which would be huge, if the towns were bigger. With Rivers I could get 2-1-3, or 3-0-3 for irrigated. and the growth would increase dramatically. On normal terrain I'd expect to have a good few size 12 cities by this time but its not happening. I've just taken 3 cities off the Greeks, and they arent much better size wise. There is water to the north of Athens ... but its blocked by hills and mountains. My only option is to clear the continent build galleons and MPP with Rome or the Celts vs the other one. When I get electricity irrigate everywhere I can ....

 

[PaperBeetle]

The lack of fresh water in this area is indeed quite a problem, and I think I agree that it makes Feudalism a good response. But whether you go to Feudalism or Republic depends on your desired VC; you should definitely have one before you come to choose your government. If you are going for a scientific VC, then Republic must be your choice, and as a result you need to do the hard work to get your towns to size 7. This is eminently achievable for most of your core towns; aqueduct and harbour.
However, I don't like the town placement in your provinces. CxxC is fine for the core, but out where the towns are corrupt, or all the land is 1f, like that tundra/hill peninsula in the southeast, you need to do the initial land grab at CxxxC, and then backfill to get CxCxC. The AI's town placement up in Zululand, though not perfect, is much more accomodating. You can easily double the town density up there, and happily the land has enough food that those Zulu towns can actually build the settlers to do it.

 

[Nergal]

Good point about the City placement .. I'll remember it for future. And the Zulu area is a possibity as that where my FP is in Ulundi. I've played on further. Its around 1500 AD .. the map has changed a bit. Took a few towns of the greeks so they arent on the Island anymore. Had to build a town on a hill, but managed to get irrigation through it and its heading east and south under some foriegn workers. The Celts polished off the English and started on me. I abandoned the 2 towns out on the odd island and used the spearmen to pillage his improvements. I appear to have a virtual monopoly on Salt and horses. Some people have one but not both. THe Celts dont. Which is why they are at the bottom of the dogpile. I took some towns off them and Planning on taking more. I'm not sure about VC. I am way behind on techs so scientific may not be possible. I am not far off Industrial and my next military hit is the old Arabian territory to the West, The towns are fairly small and only have riflemen I will build some War Chariots and see if I can get a GA, which will help a lot. Monarchy is working ok, I could do with the boost from Republic but I think I will get too much unhappiness.

 

[Nergal]

I won .. Time Victory, I was a little bit off a Domination. It took me forever to wade through the Celts. Reason being, no Temples, therefore no culture there time wasted waiting for cities to starve down so I could move the troops on without them flipping. I learnt a fair bit playing it.