Looking for Suggestions

[WeirdoJoker]

I just finished my 60th C3C game, successfully playing Carthage (1st time ever) for a Spaceship victory (by possibly one turn ... England only had one part to go) (Regent/Standard/Arch./80%/Wet/Temperate/5B). It was my #11 score. My 17th victory out of 24 games at Regent.

Anyway ... I'm not sure what step to take next. One thing I've not done is played a Large or Huge map at any level. Should I stay at Regent (or even below) and play larger maps, or move up to Monarch? Or some other direction? Looking for ideas.

 

[Puppeteer]

There are all sorts of ways to change it up. Turn up the difficulty, try civs/traits/tactics you're not used to, try a variant (one city challenge, five city challenge, all-war, etc.; these are all self-imposed and self-enforced rules).

At Regent it's fairly easy to run away with the tech lead. At Monarch it isn't a given, and at Emperor you're generally playing from behind in tech for much of the AA and into the early MA.

 

[justanick]

Move up to monarch, but limit the map size to small. After one victory move up to emperor. There you should stay a bit longer.

The step regent to monarch is small. They step monarch to emperor is still somewhat small. The step emperor to demigod is not. Emperor is the last of the easier settings.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

At Regent it's fairly easy to run away with the tech lead.

This is basically what happened this last game, though it doesn't always. It wasn't until late Industrial Age or early Modern Age that England caught up - which was my fault; I needed a cash influx and overdid it by being stingy in selling resources and instead sold a tech or two for huge sums of gold and GPT, leaving me with over 10K gold at the end because I had nothing left to spend it on. I should have (in retrospect) been more willing to sell resources (only had one extra luxury) and not include tech with them so much.

 

[tjs282]

Anyway ... I'm not sure what step to take next. One thing I've not done is played a Large or Huge map at any level. Should I stay at Regent (or even below) and play larger maps, or move up to Monarch? Or some other direction? Looking for ideas.

How about maybe starting a Monarch-/Emp-level SG...? (hint hint)

instead sold a tech or two for huge sums of gold and GPT, leaving me with over 10K gold at the end because I had nothing left to spend it on.

So long as they're not techs that will help the AI-Civs get ahead of you (e.g. MilTrad when they have Horses + Saltpeter!), selling techs for large sums of gold is fine (and large GPT is even better, because that also stunts their research).

But having siphoned all their gold, you should then be pouring it into your own research (i.e. SCI% = 100% – LUX%), at deficit if need be, so that you can get even further ahead.

And if you still have pots left over, cash-rushing remaining shields on needed buildings, e.g. Courthouse- + 'Duct-builds (in places where they can still be useful!) is perfectly acceptable in my book — even if not @justanick's!

 

[CKS]

Try the game of the month this quarter. (PTW is at monarch level, Conquests is at emperor level.)
I would say that larger maps are not generally more difficult, they are just more time consuming. If you want longer games, move up in map size.
I'd suggest moving to monarch. The difference between regent and monarch is that you can't make stupid mistakes on monarch. You don't have to have great micromanagement skills, but you have to pay a little more attention. You also need to have a plan for winning in the back of your head, even if it doesn't require laser focus.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

So long as they're not techs that will help the AI-Civs get ahead of you (e.g. MilTrad when they have Horses + Saltpeter!), selling techs for large sums of gold is fine (and large GPT is even better, because that also stunts their research).

I did the best I could in that area ... loved selling relatively irrelevant techs. Cleaned out England and got max. possible GPT, and they still came within a couple turns of beating me.

But having siphoned all their gold, you should then be pouring it into your own research (i.e. SCI% = 100% – LUX%), at deficit if need be, so that you can get even further ahead.

Oh, definitely. I had to, practically speaking, keep LUX% at 10%, but SCI% toward the end pretty stayed at 80-90%, and I had enough cash to run a severe deficit without hurting myself.

And if you still have pots left over, cash-rushing remaining shields on needed buildings, e.g. Courthouse- + 'Duct-builds (in places where they can still be useful!) is perfectly acceptable in my book — even if not @justanick's!

Did that, too, as well as upgrading all the old units, which Leo's made easy (i.e., cheap).

 

[Puppeteer]

How about maybe starting a Monarch-/Emp-level SG...? (hint hint)

Oh yeah, succession game! Great idea! I didn't even think of it because *I* personally don't have the dedication and follow-through to keep up with it. I tried twice and early-abandoned my team, so I just don't try that anymore.

Although I *have* learned quite a few things by taking over another game a few times, usually when somebody posts a "hopeless" save and asks for help. Inheriting someone else's game is quite a different thing and teaches a lot.

Actually, on the "I abandoned it" theme, that reminds me: one of the "SG"s was actually a training game. Everyone played a set of turns from the same save, and the teacher/leader assessed the turns, and one of the turnsets was chosen to continue from for the next set of turns. So at least the rest of the players weren't as adversely impacted by my exit. But that could be an interesting thing to try if someone were to organize it and a few people wanted to try.

Actually, here that is: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...gest-bang-out-of-the-gallic-swordsman.441045/ . Just ignore my shame and enjoy the experiences of the shared experience. Actually I made a video of my opening turnset:

Edit: And I found the original 4000BC SAV file for that game and attached it to my first post in that thread because I couldn't find it in elsewhere in the thread. In case anyone wants to play along 9+ years later.

 

[vmxa]

Funny thing, to me, on Monarch. The one SG I was in and nearly lost was a 250x250 AWM with 31 civs. We never lost the same format at Emperor. Of course AWDG we did lose one or two at 250x250 31 civs. Only recall playing one SID game as an SG and it was an easy win, not sure of the map size. It was kind of like cheating as we were on an island map as the Biz. Dromon are OP on island maps.

I think Monarch on a std map would be a good place to go next. Pick your favorite settings and civ. Can't give advice as I have not done a Monarch normal in ages. To me worker management is the key as you move up levels. It is a glaring weakness for the AI and new players. Too few, wasted movement and less than optimal task selection. Too few being the one that is hardest to overcome.
The other things can be overcome with more workers. Read Cracker's Opening Moves. Then read it again. In the end it is about having fun, play the level that is the most fun.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Decided to do a Tiny map (Continents/70% Normal/Temperate/4BY) on Monarch, and the map size may have been a mistake, as a danger has presented that I've never run up against before on any size map. Playing India vs. France (down to 1 city thanks to Spain), Egypt, and Spain (now destroyed by Egypt). Started out behind in tech but caught up by learning to trade as soon as I got a new tech (otherwise, someone else got it first & traded it around). Also had some excess stuff (mostly Lux) to trade. Now in mid-Industrial.

The problem is that I've been exclusively focused on moving toward 60K culture, bare minimum military (not a single battle fought), and Egypt has spread so far that I'm in danger of losing to Egyptian Domination. 24% land area, 38% population. Egypt has the rest (except for one remaining French city in an inconvenient place for me). Despite a Gracious attitude toward me - it's been my primary trading partner - it would logical for the AI to declare war on me as soon as possible, as Domination has gotten too close. Now I have to shift gears to Barracks (which I was starting anyway) and unit production just to keep the rug from being pulled out from under me.

On the bright side, I feel like I'm progressing relatively well for my first try at Monarch, despite having potentially built myself into a corner. (Not to mention also still trying to work while afflicted with this damn virus that just won't leave - me, not the computer.)

 

[jarred!]

How far from tanks are you? Have you built factories? You should also have some cities producing solely artillery, so no barracks in those. Cities with near-max corruption should be irrigated and set to settler duty (have you read Moonsinger's combat settler article?). Consider building fortresses or forests on border tiles so they can't sneak attack you. If they invade tell them to leave or declare so you get some war happiness.
Has Egypt been building all the wonders? Target their cities that have the ones you want. I'm thinking Bach's, Sun Tzu's, Smith's, the Pyramids... ones with continental effects. Also you should consider going for Dom/Conquest now too.

 

[tjs282]

The problem is that I've been exclusively focused on moving toward 60K culture, bare minimum military (not a single battle fought), and Egypt has spread so far that I'm in danger of losing to Egyptian Domination. 24% land area, 38% population.

As we've pointed out before, the 'simplest' way to win 60/ 80/ 100K requires extensive early warfare/ conquest (under Despotism/ Republic), until you own (and ideally have ICS'd) 50-60% of the land. Then, following a switch to Feudalism, whip Temples, Libs, Unis, Colosseums, and Cathedrals in those conquered areas.

(I would imagine that) India's great for this: the Religious trait allows fast gov-switches (and half-price Temples and Caths), Commercial means (even) more money under Republic, and Chivalry unlocks a powerful UU (that requires no resources!), so you can easily trigger an early Medieval GA for building Settlers (from your semi-core) and/or any remaining needed Culture-buildings (in your core). So unless you also wanted MilTrad for Cavs (but why, when Nellies are so good?), winning this VC shouldn't require going beyond Monotheism/Chivalry, never mind halfway into the Industrial!

But you apparently didn't follow that plan, so (forgive me but) it's hardly surprising that you're now a long way behind.

Has Egypt been building all the wonders? Target their cities that have the ones you want. I'm thinking Bach's, Sun Tzu's, Smith's, the Pyramids... ones with continental effects. Also you should consider going for Dom/Conquest now too.

If Egypt has already overrun the rest of the world (76% land, 62% pop?), I'm not sure that's feasible at this stage.

If Cleo's been on a war-footing most of the game, she will now likely have huge amounts of units to dispose of. So unless the map/ landform allows WJ to force her units through a chokepoint(s) where they can be bombarded mercilessly, and then killed, it might be better to simply bag this attempt, and start a new game.

(Not to mention also still trying to work while afflicted with this damn virus that just won't leave - me, not the computer.)

Not SARS-CoV-2, I hope?!

Regardless, I wish you a speedy recovery.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

How far from tanks are you? Have you built factories?

Building factories now, still several techs away from tanks. I have a slight lead and have domestic iron/coal, so I've got a good rail network. Also have been running Democracy for the worker efficiency, so I'll have to switch before initiating war.

Cities with near-max corruption should be irrigated and set to settler duty (have you read Moonsinger's combat settler article?).

Haven't seen a combat settler article ... where is that?

Has Egypt been building all the wonders? Target their cities that have the ones you want. I'm thinking Bach's, Sun Tzu's, Smith's, the Pyramids... ones with continental effects.

I have a few. Spain & Egypt were able to build most. I have Sistine, Smith's and ToA, and will have ToE shortly. The others beat me to Bach's, Pyramids & others ... I just got outproduced, probably for having not enough early mines ... I got carried away with irrigation for growth. I will also get Hoover Dam because I have the only river.

Also you should consider going for Dom/Conquest now too.

That's occurred to me, and is in fact what I'll probably end up going for at this point.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

As we've pointed out before, the 'simplest' way to win 60/ 80/ 100K requires extensive early warfare/ conquest (under Despotism/ Republic), until you own (and ideally have ICS'd) 50-60% of the land. Then, following a switch to Feudalism, whip Temples, Libs, Unis, Colosseums, and Cathedrals in those conquered areas.

That's something I never thought of, because I've never needed to at the lower levels. Besides, though, I was too far behind back then tech-wise, which is why I was Monarchy instead of Republic (missed the Republic slingshot & Monarchy was easier to get ahold of). I didn't start catching up until early/middle Middle Ages.

(I would imagine that) India's great for this: the Religious trait allows fast gov-switches (and half-price Temples and Caths), Commercial means (even) more money under Republic, and Chivalry unlocks a powerful UU (that requires no resources!), so you can easily trigger an early Medieval GA for building Settlers (from your semi-core) and/or any remaining needed Culture-buildings (in your core). So unless you also wanted MilTrad for Cavs (but why, when Nellies are so good?), winning this VC shouldn't require going beyond Monotheism/Chivalry, never mind halfway into the Industrial!

But you apparently didn't follow that plan, so (forgive me but) it's hardly surprising that you're now a long way behind.
If Egypt has already overrun the rest of the world (76% land, 62% pop?), I'm not sure that's feasible at this stage.

Totally didn't follow that plan ... wasn't even thinking along those lines. Never had an issue like this below Monarch, and this is my first Monarch game, so I'm learning a lot.

If Cleo's been on a war-footing most of the game, she will now likely have huge amounts of units to dispose of. So unless the map/ landform allows WJ to force her units through a chokepoint(s) where they can be bombarded mercilessly, and then killed, it might be better to simply bag this attempt, and start a new game.

Not giving this game up, though I may just plain lose. I'm liking this game, notwithstanding having been caught out like this (also never happened before ... never lost to Domination before (though I was Conquered once). Am thinking about mass-producing Infantry ASAP, then Tanks to move in and start the war at the chokepoint. (Assuming I have rubber, which I probably will as I've cleared out lots of jungle along the way.)

Not SARS-CoV-2, I hope?!

Regardless, I wish you a speedy recovery.

Yep, that one. Comes & goes at this point, but mostly just heavy fatigue. Mostly on the mend.

 

[CKS]

Why not post a save?
In my experience, the AI doesn't declare war on me when they are close to winning, but when I am close to winning, so a war declaration may not come right away, giving you time to prepare. If they don't, then you have a chance.

 

[Spoonwood]

Moonsinger's article.

 

[jarred!]

If Egypt has already overrun the rest of the world (76% land, 62% pop?), I'm not sure that's feasible at this stage.

If Cleo's been on a war-footing most of the game, she will now likely have huge amounts of units to dispose of. So unless the map/ landform allows WJ to force her units through a chokepoint(s) where they can be bombarded mercilessly, and then killed, it might be better to simply bag this attempt, and start a new game.

If WJ has some time to prepare it might not be so bad and even if it is, it will be a good learning experience (to follow your advice on cultural victories )

Building factories now, still several techs away from tanks. I have a slight lead and have domestic iron/coal, so I've got a good rail network. Also have been running Democracy for the worker efficiency, so I'll have to switch before initiating war.

Haven't seen a combat settler article ... where is that?

I have a few. Spain & Egypt were able to build most. I have Sistine, Smith's and ToA, and will have ToE shortly. The others beat me to Bach's, Pyramids & others ... I just got outproduced, probably for having not enough early mines ... I got carried away with irrigation for growth. I will also get Hoover Dam because I have the only river.

That's occurred to me, and is in fact what I'll probably end up going for at this point.

Demo might not be so bad if you can get them to declare and fight a fast war with few casualties. This being your first game on this difficulty, swapping gov'ts would probably be a good idea although you'll still get quite a bit of WW in a Republic.
See @Spoonwood's post. Consider not disbanding the outposts but keeping them for population.

 

[Lanzelot]

Edit: And I found the original 4000BC SAV file for that game and attached it to my first post in that thread because I couldn't find it in elsewhere in the thread. In case anyone wants to play along 9+ years later.

Thanks for that!
All the attachments in the Asterix thread had been eaten by the forum upgrade a while ago, and I haven't been able to find the files again on my old computers. So at least the starting save has survived, if others want to give it a try...

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Why not post a save?

I might after I finish, at the point at which I posted the thread (520AD ... currently at 750AD). Just want to see if I can squeak out of this. I think it's doable, as I've switched gears to military production. (Should I research Nationalism? They won't sell it to me for anything reasonable, but I'm thinking it could be useful for wartime mobilization.)

Moonsinger's article.

Thanks. I've actually done that sort of thing, but not as a separate strategy. One way I've gotten enemy resources I needed (e.g., coal) was to plant a town on top of it, then feeding units into that base until they agree to let me keep it (or until I wipe them out, or until I lose the position, as the case may be). Basically, after reading the article, I said "duh" to myself, as I should long since have figured that out. Age catching up to me...

Demo might not be so bad if you can get them to declare and fight a fast war with few casualties. This being your first game on this difficulty, swapping gov'ts would probably be a good idea although you'll still get quite a bit of WW in a Republic.

Well, I just got Universal Suffrage, so that'll reduce WW, though I was thinking Monarchy rather than Republic. I'll see once I've built my Tanks (I'm there now, and Egypt is not, though we both have Inf) and overwhelmed a few towns. BTW, will making a trade for all their gold just before a DoW (if I can) cripple their wartime research capability? I'd hate to be up against their Tanks if I didn't have to be. And they are still working on Corporations, IIRC.

 

[CKS]

Universal Suffrage doesn't really help with war weariness. It makes one unhappy-because-of-WW person content in each town. You probably won't notice the difference.
To cripple their wartime research capability, pillage. However, try not to pillage tiles you will soon own.