Looking to make the jump from Prince to Monarch

[Tiepolo]

Alright so I'm winning a good majority of my prince games (even on the perfect world map script which lacks in resources to the extreme) and I would like to bump up a level. I know I'm going to get my ass kicked but its all good. So a couple of things,

1. What should I expect in terms of ai capabilities?
2. What bonuses from prince will I lose in monarch?
3. Are the Ai more willing to declare higher up?

4. I would like to play a game in this thread with the help of others. If this were to happen, I would play every weekend (schools a . .. .. .. .. .) and post a save for people to look at.

I'm playing warlords expansion pack.

 

[glcm1961]

I just made the jump from prince to monarch myself. On my first try I thought I was doing pretty well - had 6 strong, healthy cities by 800BC and secured a nice chunk of land for my empire. All of a sudden, I had three civs declare war on me at once. The moral of the story is this: on prince I could pretty much ignore diplomacy and get away with it. On monarch, I can tell I am going to have to understand the nuances of diplomacy to survive.

 

[Antilogic]

The major difference is that the AI starts with a couple of archers, in addition to all the little adjustments to your city maintenance, unit upkeep, and the AI equivalents you would expect. I don't have the exact numbers at hand.

Basically, I noticed that when I expanded like I did on Prince mode, I needed to knock down the science slider an extra 10% or 20% to keep the treasury positive. This meant that trading and diplomacy became all the more important--you have to avoid being the bottom of a dogpile. That means accepting demands (I never accepted an AI demand on Prince...now I think twice about hitting the "Go f&^$ yourself!" button). That is really the key--sometimes, if you see Shaka or Alexander or Genghis or Monty or <other warmonger here> start gearing up, accept their demands if you don't think you can take them. Sometimes, they will attack somebody else and give you a break. Other times, you just bought yourself some time to get ready.

The AI stacks are also about 10% larger, sometimes more. Be ready for some harder border fights when you start a war.

 

[Tiepolo]

Alright so rolled four starts as Elizabeth (good crutch) and set the map to standard continents, mid sea level, random AI.


Start 1


Start 2


Start 3


Start 4


Edit: Photobucket's a little ****, sorry if I break the page, had to upload with imageshack.

Edit of an Edit: Saves are up.

 

[BakingTheArt]

Jesus christ Starkow. You're an exact copy of me in political terms, AND you play on a Mac too?

...brother?

 

[Tiepolo]

*Corny music behind scene of over-exaggerated reunion*

 

[futurehermit]

I would say start #1 and settle 1S. Liz is really strong. Key is expanding to 6-10 cities and then bulbing through lib while beelining rifling. Draft redcoats and conquer. Can go SE or CE or hybrid depending on terrain. Longterm probably want as many cottage cities as possible (while retaining 1 strong gpfarm and some strong production cities).

 

[Negator_UK]

I've just started winning consistently (ooops, I jinxed it) on Monarch and the final leg up was provided by TMITs UTube series. Suggest you take a look at this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWAessUDwws&feature=PlayList&p=B87AF03EC1E65FE8&index=0

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If that's corn in the BFC of start 3, I'd actually recommend that one . Irrigated corn is really strong as a tile (best in game IMO). Which start depends on your style a bit.

If you do watch my videos, hopefully you find them helpful as well!

 

[AlienSexFilth]

just made the jump to Monarch as well and I am about to win my second game as Justinian this time :-D

You should expect a more aggresive AI in comparisson to Prince. make sure you have 1/5 of your cities constantly producing troops +Barracks, Stables, Granary, Forge and whatever health/happyness buildings you might need in the future.

Also, you will notice that AI techs rather good here and you won't be able to win all the races but rather choose (oracle, Lib, circumnavigation of the world, economics, etc)

Other than that, get the 1st start, settle 1NW by the coast + river.

 

[futurehermit]

I thought 3 looked ok, but the lack of seafood and the tundra/plains nearby led to me preferring 1.

 

[Negator_UK]

Shoot ! I did jinx it - oh well....

 

[JTMacc99]

Advice on the jump from Prince to Monarch:
1. Be a much more aggressive trader. It's a lot harder to do everything on your own.
2. Be more careful with your diplomacy. You might even want to check out things like which civics might make somebody happy with you, which is something you can generally work around at Prince (once you've mastered that level.)
3. Focus your research to have specific goals. For example, let's say you're going to get limited to space for 4 cities early on, and an axe rush is out of the question. However, you should be able to wipe out the neighbor who boxed you in with swords/horsemen as long as you bring along a bunch of catapults. You need to set your research path with limited diversions from iron working, horseback riding and construction. You won't have time to mess around with picking up any religious techs after mysticism. If you don't focus, before you know it, the AI will either have too many cities for you to capture efficiently, or even worse, start building longbows behind walls.

 

[Tiepolo]

Alrite so I've played quite far through today and yesterday, got liberalism and somehow circumnavigation (I just built on caravel to find cathy and hanni and ended up popping the event). I've got a pseudo GP farm going (Nottingham) and my future one Mecca. Captured the Buddhist and Hindu shrines and I'm building up an army for Mansa Musa.

Problems:
Cyrus is a monster and has vassalized Saladin who I could not kill off completely. Sal is culture cramping me and he needs to be delt with, however I'm not in any preparedness to take Cyrus.

I'm about to Make a civic change (mercantilism, free religion, free speech), maybe HR, but I"m not sure I want to take the two turn hit. I really need the switch however.

Save posted, comments are welcome.

 

[Ghpstage]

Alrite so I've played quite far through today and yesterday, got liberalism and somehow circumnavigation (I just built on caravel to find cathy and hanni and ended up popping the event). I've got a pseudo GP farm going (Nottingham) and my future one Mecca. Captured the Buddhist and Hindu shrines and I'm building up an army for Mansa Musa.

Problems:
Cyrus is a monster and has vassalized Saladin who I could not kill off completely. Sal is culture cramping me and he needs to be delt with, however I'm not in any preparedness to take Cyrus.

I'm about to Make a civic change (mercantilism, free religion, free speech), maybe HR, but I"m not sure I want to take the two turn hit. I really need the switch however.

Save posted, comments are welcome.

You are making quite a lot of gold from foreign trade routes, it's likely that swapping to mercantilism will hurt you more than its worth.

Happiness is only a major issue in Damascus and Mecca, but the swap to Free Religion will cure this (Build a few missionaries to spread em around, you have accesss to at least 3 different missionaries), HR isn't necessary IMO. In Mecca's case just pump up the city's culture.

If you drop the Merc and HR changes a swap to FReligion and FSpeech will only take 1 turn. Be warned though a swap to Free Religion will seriously hurt your diplomacy

You have lots of gold in the bank, I would run at 100% defecit research to finish Printing Press and then go chemistry --> steel for cannons and grenadiers.

Build a few more Universities and get Oxford built in Hastings ASAP.

I'd workshop over just about all the grassland around Bahgdad and Nottingham's grassland farms to make it a super production city, although I don't know how good this will be as they don't get the +1 for caste system in Warlords.
Then smash Cyrus with cannons and grenades, your obsolete stuff in Medina can keep Saladin Busy while you kill his master.

I would avoid attacking Mansa till Cyrus is put in his place, you don't want Cyrus to vassalize anyonee else or give him an opportunity to backstab you when your off attacking Mansa.

 

[Tiepolo]

Thanks!

Free religion: I can't remember my relations with Cyrus, but what you say makes sense. Theocracy for the promotions then? I can spread judaism to the military cities for Cyrus.

Nottingham's farms: Results of an ancient GP farm no longer providing much use. With state prop and guilds I can get atleast three out of workshops, so this does seem like the best idea.

The help is much appreciated

 

[Ghpstage]

How goes this game now Starkow?

Free religion: I can't remember my relations with Cyrus, but what you say makes sense. Theocracy for the promotions then? I can spread judaism to the military cities for Cyrus.

Personally, I just swapped to FSpeech and FReligion as I planned a massive war against Cyrus soon anyway. The plan was finish Printing Press then go Chem-->Steel and build lots of Grenades and Cannons.

Nottingham's farms: Results of an ancient GP farm no longer providing much use. With state prop and guilds I can get atleast three out of workshops, so this does seem like the best idea.

Guilds and Chemistry is all you need for 3 per workshop, SP removes the -1 penalty. I workshopped all of Bahgdad's grassland and made it my HE city almost as soon as I loaded, it proved very effective!

Spoiler :

I did play the save a while and the first war against Cyrus got me 8 cities, only stopping due to WW issues (up to 10 in some cities!)
I then declare on Freddy taking his capital and a few other cities forcing him to capitulate.
Then wiped out Saladin completely.

Currently I'm at 1856 with a huge army sitting on Cyrus border ready to finish him.
I'm slightly behind in techs now, lots of warring and massive expansion has slowed my research considerably.
Current plan is to finish Cyrus and Mansa (Probably by Capitulation) as fast as possible.
Then go and invade the Carthaginian and Russian continents. Russina first due to potentially threatening culture win (I don't know how much you actually need on normal speed!), lots of coastal cities and only 1 oil that is coastal. If all else fails I can quite likely get a UN diplo win from my (hopefully 3 by then) vassals.

View attachment kdaum AD-1856.CivWarlordsSave

I am confident I can win this

 

[Tiepolo]

I got absolutely raped.

Pre war, mansa musa asks for vassalage, I accept, I want his help with Sally (which he actually does) and he's a great trading partner. Cyrus declares on hannibal

Build a sizable force and manage to nab MT after chem on the eve of war, have four cavs and two near Phoenician and a massive stack grens and cannons at (gordium? the city west of basra). Take phoenician, take Gordium. Lose phoenician to a counter attack of 7 nights and three trebs, pick at that stack for the remainder of the war. Medina goes from having no squares to revolting one of sally's cities (What the f***!?). Takes Sal's revolting city, destroy his stack. Two turns into war Hastings, Nottingham, Mecca and Damascus go into debilhitating war warriness that cannot be hemorrhaged, I lose three in each city before amends (be that drastic amendments) could be taken. I get pissed and let them all die.

Cyrus is defending his cities with one longbow, pikeman and the occasional musketman. I move to Tarus and take it. Take basra with renegade cavs.

5 turns into war all of my cities are being raped by war wariness. Tarsus gets retaken, I can't get it back in that turn.

Bismark declares on Mansa Musa, thus declaring on me. Cyrus wont talk.

I give up.

 

[dirtyparrot]

During any of this time, was Cyrus willing to sign a peace treaty/cease fire? Sometimes I make my moves in steps. For example, I'll aim to take half of what he's got and then go for the other half. I've actually made the jump myself recently too. I find that if you manage to secure yourself a good spot of land and carve yourself a good early advantage that you can ride this ftw. My first attempt actually went really well and I pretty much dominated the whole game. I don't think that it's that much of a stretch to be able to do quite well shortly after making the jump.

A few things that I've come to realize are:

1) Importance of diplomacy (bribe AI's to go to war against someone else, tech trade, knowing when to switch to a religion and when to wait)

2) Plan out your strategy and suit them to your traits and the map (incl neighbouring AI's and their traits)

3) REX is key (whether peacefully or not). Land is power. So, if there's an AI nearby, don't be afraid to chop some trees to rush an army.

4) The importance of being able to able research and wealth after having researched alphabet and currency.

5) Developing your land (i.e. having enough workers)

I've found that sometimes it's 1 or 2 minor things holding us back at a particular difficulty.

 

[Tiepolo]

I can cover all of those fine, prince is very easy, the issue with cyrus was that he wasn't willing to make peace