Losing Battle

[Shillen]

It doesn't, only losing cities does.

It would be nice if size 20 cities were only defended by 2 regular infantry, but that sure never happens in my games. If a city is size 20, it's almost always defended by at least 3 veteran infantry as well as 1-2 regulars or conscripts. With promotions, etc, it would take at least 15-20 tanks to kill all the infantry off in one turn.

The cities are probably more defended because you spend time getting your artillery into place. This allows them to draft and move defenses to the city because they know you're about to attack it. Faster conquest = less defense. Also I said 2 infantry, not 2 defenders. Usually there's 2 infantry, a pikeman or musketman, and a spearman or something like that. The tanks just roll over the last 2 though.

 

[Lkysam]

What level are you playing on? I often see the AI with 5-6 of the most advanced units avaible, at veteran level too, in their more vital cities. A bunch of artillery make a huge difference. In my experience at least.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by billindenver


Well, the combat odds calculator shows vet infantry fortified in a metropolis will win 70% of the time against a veteran tank. Not all 70% will die, but 35% or more probably will. If you're willing to sacrifice 1/3 of your tanks for every city you take, ok.

I ran my new Battle Civulation for Tanks v. Infantry. With twelve Defenders (fortified, flatland, metropolis, river), you will lose about 8-9 Tanks, no matter how many you start with (assuming enough Tanks for a reasonable chance of victory). You lose about two Tanks for every three Infantry. But, of course, the Terrain is very favorable to the Defenders, 260% in this case.


http://www.zachriel.com/BattleCivulation.asp

 

[Rellin]

I use bombers over artillary personally. A lot less hassle protecting them as they are stationed in a city that is protected anyway, normally Ill throw some more backup whereveer the bombers are just for safetys sake. Normally just have an artillary in each of my main cities waiting to be jumped via railroad to any city that comes under attack. Plus bombers seem to do a ton of damage when ya have like 10-15 of them on autobombard, most times I can take a size 20 or so city the turn after my first wave of bombing because of all the damage done.

 

[Shillen]

What level are you playing on? I often see the AI with 5-6 of the most advanced units avaible, at veteran level too, in their more vital cities. A bunch of artillery make a huge difference. In my experience at least.

I play regent-emperor. I don't use any variant rules or cheats. Like I said I think you guys take too long with your artillery and it allows the AI to build up better defenses. I also usually build both Sun Tzu and Leo's and the AI isn't very good about building barracks.

 

[TheNiceOne]

You may have a point Shillen. The speed is one of the important reasons to build bombers. They miss more than artillery, but you don't need to waste a turn by getting them into the correct spot as they can bombard anything within 8 squares.

I also try to combine the military conquest with a cultural and infrastructural conquest. The front is usually more than one city wide, and I can attack one place while I pump culture in another newly conquered city. Then, when the culture expands, I often get only one enemy culture square towards my next target - which lets me move in and attack with artillery the same turn, followed by tanks - also the same turn.

 

[Renata]

Originally posted by Shillen
It doesn't, only losing cities does.

Why do you say that? It's not my experience at all. If I fight slowly and carefully, with a lot of artillery and defense and only lose less than a unit per turn, I can fight a long time without trouble. But if I get lazy and just start throwing tanks at infantry-defended cities, my citizenry gets angry in a hurry. And I almost never lose cities.

Renata

 

[jack merchant]

Originally posted by Shillen


I play regent-emperor. I don't use any variant rules or cheats. Like I said I think you guys take too long with your artillery and it allows the AI to build up better defenses. I also usually build both Sun Tzu and Leo's and the AI isn't very good about building barracks.

If their defenses are too strong, you just didn't take along enough artillery. Forget about bringing 20 guns to take down a metropolis; you want to have 40-50 tubes.
The downside of artillery is only that iirc having units in enemy territory increases WW too. With stacks this size though, it wont be enemy territory for long.

 

[Woody]

If their defenses are too strong, you just didn't take along enough artillery. Forget about bringing 20 guns to take down a metropolis; you want to have 40-50 tubes

Instead of those 40-50 art I would build another 40-50 tanks, I will have that city and then next 3 or 4 conquered by the time you move that artillery in place.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Woody


Instead of those 40-50 art I would build another 40-50 tanks, I will have that city and then next 3 or 4 conquered by the time you move that artillery in place.

Generally, if you are "behind" your rivals, then Artillery is often the better use of scarce resources. You will lose half your Tanks in Battle, but Artillery is forever. It takes fewer shields -- in the long run. But it takes more time. And more intricate combat (fun!). Of course, if you are "ahead" of your rivals, then Tanks are usually better in order to overwhelm the enemy quickly. That makes for a lower chance of culture flipping, less war weariness, and a quicker return to peacetime development.

 

[Shillen]

Why do you say that? It's not my experience at all. If I fight slowly and carefully, with a lot of artillery and defense and only lose less than a unit per turn, I can fight a long time without trouble. But if I get lazy and just start throwing tanks at infantry-defended cities, my citizenry gets angry in a hurry. And I almost never lose cities.

I've fought 50+ turn wars in republic with 0% war weariness. This is without using artillery and losing quite a few units on the offensive. As long as the other civ declared war on me it doesn't matter how many units I lose. Maybe if you lose units within your own territory I don't know, the fighting rarely occurs in my territory.

 

[JMK]

Fully agree with Zachriel.
If you are behing your rivals, use artillery will save you, if your are ahead, and war becomes too easy, that means it is time for you to change the level.