Lost Eden development thread

[vyeh]

Sure well they may be a bit stronger with the Industry penalty removed. They tend to fight Oblivion/CyndaTech due to their anti-Christian affinities.

Realm's priorities are Explore, Discover, Build and Conquer.

Maybe Build needs to be larger.

And here we go! The next alphax.txt section:

Are there any changes from the vanilla SMAX?

 

[Kilkakon]

Priorities can only be 0 or 1 so I can't really make it larger. But we'll see how they adapt to changes (I'll run a few games on the lappy).

And as for changes, yes, it's been made so the larger maps are larger and have interconnected land for the lowest ocean coverage setting.

 

[vyeh]

Priorities can only be 0 or 1 so I can't really make it larger. But we'll see how they adapt to changes (I'll run a few games on the lappy).

Let's see.

And as for changes, yes, it's been made so the larger maps are larger and have interconnected land for the lowest ocean coverage setting.

Sounds good. Have you been testing at the largest size or second to largest size?

 

[Kilkakon]

Second to largest, with average everything but lowest sea setting.

 

[vyeh]

Second to largest, with average everything but lowest sea setting.

So you get the interconnected land.

 

[Kilkakon]

Yeah! To be honest I'm quite happy with the playtest results. Nobody is dominant in every game -- in one, Realm was leading majorly, in another, Seafoam eliminated them from the map! I think that it's safe to say that the first seven factions are pretty balanced. There'll be more tweaks later of course, but yeah.

Now of course there's the second seven factions. Now would you like me to do some AI runs first, and then get you to comment, or post all the stats here again, or what?

Here's the next section of alphax.txt -- the tech tree. The diagram on the last page is still available if that helps you out! Thanks for putting up with all of this.

#TECHNOLOGY
Human Flexibility,          Human1,  0, 2, 2, 0, IntrSpc, Tactics, 000000000
Charmander Courage,         Char1,   1, 2, 0, 0, IntrSpc, Tactics, 000000000
Way of the Rose,            Dark1,   1, 0, 3, 0, IntrSpc, Tactics, 000000000
The Squirtle Cause,         Sqrt1,   0, 0, 0, 2, IntrSpc, EcoEng2, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,          Naga1,   1, 0, 2, 2, Disable, Disable, 000000000
Combined Arms,              Human2,  1, 2, 2, 1, Human1,  AppWar,  000000000
Charmander Tactics,         Char2,   2, 3, 1, 1, Char1,   AppWar,  000000000
Dark Rose Rituals,          Dark2,   2, 1, 3, 1, Dark1,   AppWar,  000000000
Squirtle Warrior Code,      Sqrt2,   1, 1, 1, 4, Sqrt1,   AppWar,  000000000
Naval Warfare,              Naga2,   3, 0, 0, 1, ArtWar,  Mercs,   000000000
Advanced Human Warfare,     Human3,  1, 3, 3, 1, Human2,  ArtWar,  000000000
Charmander Acrobatics,      Char3,   2, 4, 1, 2, Char2,   ArtWar,  000000000
Demonic Rose Incantations,  Dark3,   3, 1, 4, 1, Dark2,   ArtWar,  000000000
Rise of the Wartortles,     Sqrt3,   1, 1, 1, 5, Sqrt2,   ArtWar,  000000000
Mercenaries,                Mercs,   3, 2, 0, 1, AppWar,  EcoEng2, 000000000
Social Initiatives,         Init,    1, 1, 1, 2, Social,  None,    000000000
Industrial Focus,           IndFocs, 2, 0, 3, 0, Init,    None,    010000000
Growth Focus,               GrwFocs, 0, 0, 2, 3, Init,    None,    100000000
Trade Focus,                ResFocs, 0, 3, 2, 0, Init,    None,    001000000
Religious Expression,       Relg,    3, 4, 3, 3, None,    None,    000000000
Theory of Evolution,        AthReg,  1, 3, 3, 1, Relg,    None,    000000000
Christianity,               ChrReg,  1, 3, 1, 3, Relg,    None,    000000000
Path of Destruction,        DemReg,  3, 1, 3, 1, Relg,    None,    000000000
Inter-Species Society,      IntrSpc, 3, 4, 1, 2, Social,  None,    000000000
Realisation of Values,      Goal,    1, 3, 2, 1, Init,    Relg,    000000000
Absolute Power,             CtlGoal, 3, 0, 0, 0, Goal,    IndFocs, 000000000
Boundless Knowledge,        KnwGoal, 0, 3, 0, 0, Goal,    GrwFocs, 000000000
Infinite Wealth,            WltGoal, 0, 0, 3, 0, Goal,    ResFocs, 000000100
Social Constructs,          Social,  1, 1, 3, 1, None,    None,    000000000
Defence & Tactics,          Tactics, 3, 0, 0, 0, None,    None,    000000000
Combat Initiatives,         AppWar,  3, 1, 1, 2, Tactics, Init,    000000000
The Art of War,             ArtWar,  4, 2, 2, 2, AppWar,  Goal,    000000000
Ancient Knowledge,          Inca1,   0, 1, 0, 1, IntrSpc, ResFocs, 000000000
Native Cooperation,         Native1, 0, 0, 0, 3, IntrSpc, Tactics, 000000000
Native Empathy,             Native2, 1, 1, 1, 4, Native1, EcoEng2, 000000000
Native Knowledge,           Native3, 2, 2, 2, 5, Native2, ArtWar,  000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,      DocFlex, 2, 0, 1, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,     Integ,   0, 1, 3, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,     Fossil,  1, 0, 2, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,        DocAir,  3, 0, 3, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,      DocSec,  3, 2, 2, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,     MindMac, 4, 0, 2, 2, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,        NanoMin, 1, 0, 4, 3, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,          DocLoy,  3, 0, 2, 2, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,           EthCalc, 0, 1, 3, 3, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,       IndEcon, 0, 0, 5, 2, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,      IndAuto, 0, 1, 4, 3, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,        CentMed, 0, 0, 2, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Brain,   1, 5, 0, 3, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxx,              Gene,    0, 2, 4, 3, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,            BioEng,  0, 2, 3, 2, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxx,               BioMac,  3, 1, 4, 1, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,            Neural,  3, 1, 1, 1, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxx,                Cyber,   1, 3, 4, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxx,                 Eudaim,  0, 0, 3, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,          WillPow, 0, 3, 1, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Thresh,  0, 1, 3, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,        Matter,  1, 0, 3, 2, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,           CentEmp, 0, 1, 0, 6, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,    EnvEcon, 0, 0, 4, 3, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,     EcoEng,  0, 0, 3, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,        PlaEcon, 0, 0, 4, 3, Disable, Disable, 000000000
Naval Exploration,          EcoEng2, 1, 0, 2, 2, Tactics, None,    000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxx,               CentPsi, 0, 1, 1, 6, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,        Future,  0, 4, 0, 3, Disable, Disable, 111000001
Secrets of Purpose,         Create,  2, 4, 2, 2, Goal,    IntrSpc, 000000001
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,       Space,   2, 4, 2, 3, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxx,              HomoSup, 3, 2, 1, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,     SupLube, 3, 1, 2, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,           QuanMac, 3, 1, 4, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxx,              TestTec, 0, 0, 0, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,           NanEdit, 1, 2, 3, 1, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,           OptComp, 2, 4, 1, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,    IndRob,  3, 1, 8, 1, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,           CentGen, 0, 2, 0, 5, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,      SentEco, 1, 1, 3, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,     Viral,   4, 2, 0, 2, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,        Orbital, 0, 4, 3, 3, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,           PrPsych, 0, 2, 3, 4, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,           FldMod,  4, 2, 0, 2, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,          AdapDoc, 5, 2, 0, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,         AdapEco, 0, 1, 5, 2, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,      Bioadap, 5, 2, 0, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,         SentRes, 5, 2, 0, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,   SecMani, 0, 5, 4, 2, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,        NewMiss, 4, 0, 2, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,           BFG9000, 8, 0, 0, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,            User,    0, 0, 0, 0, Disable, Disable, 000000000
Future Technology,          TranT,   0, 1, 0, 0, Create,  None,    000000000

I haven't heard from hambino for a while. I hope that he's okay.

 

[vyeh]

I think that it's safe to say that the first seven factions are pretty balanced. There'll be more tweaks later of course, but yeah.

Do you still have situations where you aren't happy with the bonuses and penalties for story telling reasons?

Now of course there's the second seven factions. Now would you like me to do some AI runs first, and then get you to comment, or post all the stats here again, or what?

I assume you want them balanced against the first seven as well as among themselves.

Why don't you start with posting all 14 stats, using the Group 1 - 4 categories (good, sort of helps Eden, neutral and evil)? I think it would be good to look at them as a whole and see if there are overlaps or gaps.

Here's the next section of alphax.txt -- the tech tree. The diagram on the last page is still available if that helps you out! Thanks for putting up with all of this.

It is better to state a post number (post 216, which has the tech tree is on the same page for me because my settings have the maximum number of posts per page). By the way, there are a lot of broken images in #191. Were you hosting the images on your website?

I'll look at the techs later.

I haven't heard from hambino for a while. I hope that he's okay.

Maybe he is on a school break. July 4th is a national holiday in the U.S.

 

[Kilkakon]

Do you still have situations where you aren't happy with the bonuses and penalties for story telling reasons?

I'm happy now. It was just the industry penalty for Realm that was a bit . It can be hard to come up with good penalties for factions that are genuinely better than most of the others.

I assume you want them balanced against the first seven as well as among themselves.

Why don't you start with posting all 14 stats, using the Group 1 - 4 categories (good, sort of helps Eden, neutral and evil)? I think it would be good to look at them as a whole and see if there are overlaps or gaps.

Okay let's do it! I'll post both Datalink 1 and 2 entries if that helps, as well as the group destination.

Blackband's Pirates - Group 3 (Neutral)
LEADER: {Captain Jack Blackband}
SPECIES: {Totodile}
AGENDA: {Stealing what he can and giving nothing back}
TECH: {The Squirtle Cause, Naval Exploration}

{Aquatic faction}

-1 GROWTH {Culture does not place high emphasis on family}
-1 INDUSTRY {Spends far too much time out pillaging enemies}
Improvements may be built in ocean and trench squares: {Trained for life at sea}
Bonus production from ocean shelf squares: {Culture and technology adapted for the ocean}

Community of Rakis - Group 3 (Neutral)
LEADER: {Caretaker Edge}
SPECIES: {Cubone}
AGENDA: {A community free from racism and sexism}
TECH: {Human Flexibility}

+1 POLICE: {Citizens enjoy many civil rights}
+1 SUPPORT: {Followers eager to defend community}
-1 MORALE: {Desires peace over war}
Receives DOUBLE votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader.

CyndaTech Industries - Group 4 (Against Eden)
LEADER: {Administrator Saig}
SPECIES: {Cyndaquil}
AGENDA: {Athiest industrialist state; elimination of painful emotions}
TECH: {Way of the Rose}

+1 SUPPORT: {Social dominance}
+2 INDUSTRY: {Brutal serfdom}
-1 PLANET: {Hatred towards native life}
-1 MORALE: {Oppressive society with tragic overtones}
1 in every 4 citizens are unhappy.
Begins with 2 SUPPLY CRAWLERS (unique units).
Impunity to ATHEISM penalty: {Scientists forced to work harder}
{May not pursue Perfect Society}

Darrus' Adventurers - Borderline Group 2/3 (Compatible/Neutral)
LEADER: {Guildmaster Darrus}
SPECIES: {Charmander}
AGENDA: {To explore this new world}
TECH: {Charmander Courage}

+1 SUPPORT: {Males live off the land}
+1 MORALE: {Heroic spirit}
-1 GROWTH: {Males leave home for long periods of time to adventure}
-1 PLANET: {Sees native life as a threat to be tamed}
Begins with 3 CHARMANDER EXPLORERS (1/1/2).

Deadly Assassins - Group 3 (Neutral)
LEADER: {Grandmaster Morgius}
SPECIES: {Human}
AGENDA: {To become the ultimate Assassin; increasing of knowledge; enlightenment}
TECH: {Human Flexibility}

+2 PROBE: {Experts in stealthy movement}
+1 RESEARCH: {Places value on training and studying}
-1 SUPPORT: {Prefers few elite units over "grunt" warriors}
Begins with a free SPY.
{May not value Wealth.}

Lukas' Rangers - Group 2 (Compatible)
LEADER: {Warden Lukas}
SPECIES: {Human}
AGENDA: {Society that respects nature; protection of native preserves}
TECH: {Human Flexibility}

+1 PLANET: {Environmental safeguards; can recruit natives}
-1 ECONOMY: {Lack of interest in making money}
-1 MORALE: {Pacifist tendencies}
-1 POLICE: {Freedom loving}
-1 INDUSTRY: {People spend a lot of time outdoors}
Free TREE FARM in every base (unique facility)
{May not pursue All Must Die}

Mushroom Merchants - Borderline Group 2/3 (Compatible/Neutral)
LEADER: {Manager Toad}
SPECIES: {Mushroom}
AGENDA: {Setting up a chain of item stores; establishing capitalism}
TECH: {The Squirtle Cause}

+2 ORDER: {Experience in running item shops, mini-games, etc.}
+1 SUPPORT: {Item shops are owner owned and operated}
-1 MORALE: {Disinterested in combat}
-1 RESEARCH: {Limited funds for research and development}
2% INTEREST: {Gains 2% interest on gold reserves every year}
{May not pursue All Must Die}

Oblivion's Fallen - Group 4 (Against Eden)
LEADER: {Oblivion, the Prince of Darkness}
SPECIES: {Bulbasaur}
AGENDA: {Perverted pleasures; establishing demonic rule}
TECH: {Way of the Rose}

+1 GROWTH: {Procreation encouraged}
-1 ORDER: {Corruption a way of life for followers}
-1 PROBE: {Vulnerable and afraid of the Light}
-1 PLANET: {Apathy towards clean operation}
-1 RESEARCH: {Would rather play than learn}
Free TEMPLE in every base
Need AQUADUCT for bases to exceed size 5: {Perverted activities poison water supplies}
Impunity to DEMONISM penalty: {Oblivion keeps his followers happy}
{May not embrace Christianity in Social Engineering.}

Protectors of the Wild - Group 1 (Protects)
LEADER: {Guardian Rakash}
SPECIES: {Sandslash}
AGENDA: {To protect native life}
TECH: {Ancient Knowledge, Native Cooperation}

+25% DEFENCE: {Generations of experience in defending temples}
+2 PLANET: {Devoted to promoting native growth}
+1 SUPPORT: {Society dedicated to defending bases}
-2 INDUSTRY: {Reluctant to produce material goods}
-1 RESEARCH: {Suspicious of secular science}
+1 Food in vine squares
{May not embrace Demonism in Social Engineering.}

Seafoam Collective - Group 3 (Neutral)
LEADER: {Champion Arko}
SPECIES: {Wartortle}
AGENDA: {Expansion; securing land for his people to live peacefully}
TECH: {The Squirtle Cause}

+1 POLICE: {Great spirit of collective effort}
+1 INDUSTRY: {Followers realise the urgency of the situation}
-1 ORDER: {Rushed exodus means that many resort to stealing}
-1 SUPPORT: {Supply lines from Seafoam Islands are infrequent}
Extra 2 COLONY PODS at start.
May exceed AQUADUCT population requirements by 2.

The Betrayed - Group 4 (Against Eden)
LEADER: {Avatar Navius}
SPECIES: {Mewtwo}
AGENDA: {Revenge}
TECH: {Ancient Knowledge, Native Cooperation}

+50% PSI: {Followers desire revenge}
+1 INDUSTRY: {Rage fuels production}
-1 ORDER: {People are selfish due to past hurt}
-1 MORALE: {Troops often freeze in panic}
Receives half penalties for GROWTH modifiers
{May not embrace Christianity in Social Engineering.}

The Realm of Light - Group 1 (Protects)
LEADER: {Brother-General Tristan}
SPECIES: {Totodile}
AGENDA: {Bringing love and Christainity to all}
TECH: {Charmander Courage}

+25% ATTACK: {Strength of convictions}
-1 GROWTH: {Many people reject the Light}
-1 POLICE: {Forgiving, kind society}
1 in every 4 citizens are happy.
Impunity to CHRISTIANITY penalty: {Followers willingly choose to have large families}
{May not embrace Demonism in Social Engineering.}

The True Arena - Group 3 (Neutral)
LEADER: {Overseer Chuck} (please suggest a better title)
SPECIES: {Hitmontop}
AGENDA: {To set up a battleground to train warriors}
TECH: {Charmander Courage}

+2 MORALE: {Battle hardened warriors that train daily}
-1 ORDER: {Overseers often punish their enemies by putting them through challenges}
-1 INDUSTRY: {Extravagant Arena operation proves costly}
Free ARENA in every base.
{May not value Knowledge}

Vixen's Path - Borderline Group 3/4 (Neutral/Against Eden)
LEADER: {Matriarch Victoria}
SPECIES: {Nidoqueen}
AGENDA: {Female supremacy; sterilisation of males}
TECH: {Charmander Courage}

+1 ORDER: {Strict, controlling society}
+1 SUPPORT: {All males are sent into combat as soon as they can stand}
-1 POLICE: {Males often rebel against the harsh female mistresses}
-1 INDUSTRY: {Females were not designed for hard labour}
Receives half penalties for POLICE modifiers
{May not embrace Christianity in Social Engineering.}

Enjoy!

It is better to state a post number (post 216, which has the tech tree is on the same page for me because my settings have the maximum number of posts per page). By the way, there are a lot of broken images in #191. Were you hosting the images on your website?

Yes I was, and I was removing images that we had both seen that were no longer current. Sorry about the post number fail.

I'll look at the techs later.

I hope that the tree helps you out when you do! Let me know when you want the next section.

Maybe he is on a school break. July 4th is a national holiday in the U.S.

Sure, I just care about people.

 

[vyeh]

I'm happy now. It was just the industry penalty for Realm that was a bit . It can be hard to come up with good penalties for factions that are genuinely better than most of the others.

By "better," do you mean closer to the "good" end than the "evil" end?

Okay let's do it! I'll post both Datalink 1 and 2 entries if that helps, as well as the group destination....

Enjoy!

It is good to have it all in one place. In terms of testing, it seems that it would be a good idea to set up games with half old factions and half new factions so we can see how the new factions perform relative to the old factions. And it would probably be easier if the old factions were ones that showed less variability in their performance in the old series of testing.

Yes I was, and I was removing images that we had both seen that were no longer current. Sorry about the post number fail.

From an esthetic viewpoint, it would be nice to edit out those links.

I hope that the tree helps you out when you do! Let me know when you want the next section.

I'll let you know.

 

[Kilkakon]

By "better," do you mean closer to the "good" end than the "evil" end?

I just mean more effective. I'ld image that a near perfect society would operate better than a society that oppresses its people or spends half it's time in the gutter. Of course it tends to go that efficient factions are good ones anyway but not always.

In terms of the earlier groups though, some are evil or choatic neutral but not dangerous to Eden, if that makes sense.

It is good to have it all in one place. In terms of testing, it seems that it would be a good idea to set up games with half old factions and half new factions so we can see how the new factions perform relative to the old factions. And it would probably be easier if the old factions were ones that showed less variability in their performance in the old series of testing.

Okay then! I'll set up a game of Rakis, Seafoam, Adventurers, Vixen, Pirates, Assassins and True Arena before I leave for lunch (Chinese!). I'll edit this post when I return and let you know how the game went (and lunch if you like ).

From an esthetic viewpoint, it would be nice to edit out those links.

Consider it done.

I'll let you know.

Sure.

On another note: Sunspots are really, really, annoying. Is there a way to get rid of them in normal game play?

 

[vyeh]

Sunspots are really, really, annoying. Is there a way to get rid of them in normal game play?

No. In the scenario editor, you can start a scenario with sunspot activity, but there is no way in either the scenario editor or alphax.txt to eliminate sunspot activity.

A question has come up about the Caviar 3D images. I remember you are involved with Blender and wondered if you have come across any people who have managed to modify Caviar 3D images.

 

[Kilkakon]

Annoying about the sunspots. Ah well. I'll need to think of a non-technological version of them then.

Sorry about not reporting back about the test games -- I was only able to have two as my sister was using the laptop and I wanted to do things. I've made food/production/trade icons as I didn't want to have default icons, an icon for Lukas' Rangers, as well as something for the biohazard (it's a diseased native, although not sure if it's too high-res for posting, I'll probably get image-by-image approved when I am ready to release).

As for the two I did have -- In both games Vixen was eliminated by Adventurers (funny as they are the opposites of each other ). Rakis/Seafoam eliminated/tiny. Assassins and True Arena okayish (Assassins better of the two), Pirates led ahead by miles.

About Blender, I haven't no, and I know less about Blender than 3DS Max (the models for my FPS were done by a contractor). Sorry to not help out.

 

[vyeh]

Annoying about the sunspots. Ah well. I'll need to think of a non-technological version of them then.

I took a look at the Scenario Parameters in the Scenario Editor. I noticed that there is a counter for sunsport activity that for 2110 showed -10. I know that if you set it positive that is the number of years of sunspot activity left in the scenario. I wonder what would happen if you set it 0 or a huge negative number.

an icon for Lukas' Rangers

Is this a unit icon?

,something for the biohazard (it's a diseased native...).

When does this show up? Are we talking about a random event?

As for the two I did have -- In both games Vixen was eliminated by Adventurers (funny as they are the opposites of each other ). Rakis/Seafoam eliminated/tiny. Assassins and True Arena okayish (Assassins better of the two), Pirates led ahead by miles.

Looks like we will have to strengthen Vixen. Pirates were also a problem in vanilla SMAX. How did the Pirates get ahead?

 

[Kilkakon]

I took a look at the Scenario Parameters in the Scenario Editor. I noticed that there is a counter for sunsport activity that for 2110 showed -10. I know that if you set it positive that is the number of years of sunspot activity left in the scenario. I wonder what would happen if you set it 0 or a huge negative number.

It's worth a look. I play random games though as there's no CMNs for this as it's a work in progress (well more like a mostly done but yeah ). It might be worth a request in the other forum.

Is this a unit icon?

Nah the faction. I've yet to do icons for True Arena/Betrayed. It's hard at times, trying to come up with a logo that just fits.

When does this show up? Are we talking about a random event?

Yes, the Promethus Virus and the Biology Lab event. I'm hoping to replace as much of the game's graphics as I can really. And then replace them again for a release version.

Looks like we will have to strengthen Vixen. Pirates were also a problem in vanilla SMAX. How did the Pirates get ahead?

It depends on how waterlocked the other factions are. Those two games were run on a higher ocean coverage -- The Pirates just built seabase after seabase after seabase (going well into the generic base names). But in other games where they were in a larger lake (comfortable enough for them to grow) and did relatively poorly.

Hehe I watched Sherlock Holmes and Astro Boy this evening. It was funny watching Astro Boy... at one point in the movie he/it did a fighting pose and I shouted "That's the pic I used as the base for Morgius! ".

 

[vyeh]

It depends on how waterlocked the other factions are. Those two games were run on a higher ocean coverage -- The Pirates just built seabase after seabase after seabase (going well into the generic base names). But in other games where they were in a larger lake (comfortable enough for them to grow) and did relatively poorly.

So it really was an aquatic faction. That is good. Did it have a period in the early game where it made landfall or did the adjustments we made to the sea colony pod and the sea formers help it compete with the land factions?

 

[Kilkakon]

The Pirates never made landfall, just had cities everywhere. I've only seen them make landfall once or twice in all the games with them.

Running out of things to do for this project! There's balancing, quotes, datalink entries, flcs and a logo or two and that's all I can do until my friend finishes the sketches -- exciting!

 

[vyeh]

The Pirates never made landfall, just had cities everywhere. I've only seen them make landfall once or twice in all the games with them.

It is nice to see a truly aquatic faction. If they are doing well, maybe the cost of the sea colony pods and sea formers have to go to their original values.

Running out of things to do for this project! There's balancing, quotes, datalink entries, flcs and a logo or two and that's all I can do until my friend finishes the sketches -- exciting!

Instead of looking at the tech, could we look at what you have done with other sections? I'd like to start with what happened with the specialists and then maybe the social models.

We still have to balance the 7 new factions (and that will take time)!

 

[Kilkakon]

It is nice to see a truly aquatic faction. If they are doing well, maybe the cost of the sea colony pods and sea formers have to go to their original values.

Sure no worries.

Instead of looking at the tech, could we look at what you have done with other sections? I'd like to start with what happened with the specialists and then maybe the social models.

Sure no worries! Have both, and the units as a bonus!

#WEAPONS
Melee,                Melee,          1, 0, 1, -1, Disable,
Rifle,                Rifle,          2, 0, 2, -1, Disable,
Flamethrower,         Flamethrower,   4, 0, 4, -1, Disable,
Gatling Gun,          Gatling,        5, 1, 5, -1, Disable,
Somersault Kick,      Somersault,     6, 2, 6, -1, Disable,
Laser Gun,            Laser,          8, 0, 8, -1, Disable,
Thorns of Destruction,Thorns,        10, 1,10, -1, Disable,
Tachyon Bolt,         Tachyon,       12, 1,12, -1, Disable,
Plasma Shard,         Shard,         13, 2,13, -1, Disable,
Quantum Laser,        Quantum,       16, 1,16, -1, Disable,
Graviton Gun,         Graviton,      20, 0,20, -1, Disable,
Singularity Laser,    Singularity,   24, 1,24, -1, Disable,
Resonance Laser,      R-Laser,        6, 1, 8, -1, Disable,
Resonance Bolt,       R-Bolt,        12, 1,16, -1, Disable,
String Disruptor,     String,        30, 1,40, -1, Disable,
Psi Attack,           Psi,           -1, 2,10, -1, Disable,
Planet Buster,        Planet Buster, 99, 0,32, -1, Disable,
Colony Module,        Colony Pod,     0, 8,10, -1, Disable,     ; Noncombat packages
Terraforming Unit,    Formers,        0, 9, 6, -1, Disable,
Troop Transport,      Transport,      0, 7, 4, -1, Disable,
Supply Transport,     Supply,         0,10, 8, -1, Disable,
Probe Team,           Probe Team,     0,11, 4, -1, Disable,
Alien Artefact,       Artefact,       0,12,36, -1, Disable,
Conventional Payload, Conventional,  12, 0,12, -1, Disable,
Tectonic Payload,     Tectonic,       0,13,24, -1, Disable
Fungal Payload,       Fungal,         0,14,24, -1, Disable

#DEFENSES
No Armour,           Naked,       1, 0, 1, Disable, (I used naked as it didn't like none for some reason)
Standard Armour,     Standard,    2, 0, 2, Disable,
Heavy Armour,        Heavy,       3, 2, 3, Disable,
Ancient Armour,      Ancient,     4, 1, 4, Disable,
Photon Wall,         Photon,      5, 1, 5, Disable,
Probability Sheath,  Probability, 6, 2, 6, Disable,
Neutronium Armor,    Neutronium,  8, 1, 8, Disable,
Antimatter Plate,    Antimatter, 10, 2,10, Disable,
Stasis Generator,    Stasis,     12, 2,12, Disable,
Psi Defence,         Psi,        -1, 2, 6, Disable,
Pulse 3 Armor,       3-Pulse,     3, 1, 5, Disable,
Resonance 3 Armor,   3-Res,       3, 1, 5, Disable,
Pulse 8 Armor,       8-Pulse,     8, 1, 11, Disable,
Resonance 8 Armor,   8-Res,       8, 1, 11, Disable,

#UNITS
39
Colony Pod,             Infantry, Colony Pod,   Naked,      8, 4, 0, None,    -1, 00000000000000000010000000010
Workers,                Infantry, Formers,      Naked,      9, 3, 0, None,    -1, 00000000000000000010000000010
Boy Scout,              Infantry, Melee,        Naked,      3, 1, 0, Human1,  -1, 00000000000000100000000100010
Transport,              Foil,     Transport,    Naked,      7, 0, 0, EcoEng2, -1, 00000000000000000000000000010
Work Boat,              Foil,     Formers,      Naked,      9, 3, 0, EcoEng2, -1, 00000000000000000000000000010
Supply Crawler,         Infantry, Supply,       Naked,      10,0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000000000010
Spy,                    Speeder,  Probe Team,   Naked,      11,3, 0, Mercs,   -1, 00000000000010000000000100010
Artefact,               Speeder,  Artefact,     Naked,      12,10,0, Disable, -1, 00000100000000000000000000010
Carnivine,              Infantry, Psi,          Psi,        1, 4, 0, Native1,  3, 00000000000000000000000100010
Floating Vine Mass,     Foil,     Psi,          Psi,        7, 5, 4, Native2, -1, 00000000000000000000000100010
Doom Butterflies,       Gravship, Psi,          Psi,        4, 8, 0, Native3, -1, 00001000000000000010000100010
Charmander Explorer,    Speeder,  Melee,        Naked,      3, 0, 0, Disable,  0, 00000000001000100100000100010
Random Chopper,         Copter,   Rifle,        Naked,      4, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000000100010
Light Transport,        Foil,     Transport,    Naked,      7, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000100000000000000000100010
Floating Vine Mass,     Foil,     Psi,          Psi,        7, 8, 4, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000000100010
Carnivine,              Infantry, Psi,          Psi,        1, 5, 0, Disable,  3, 00000000000000000000000100010
Weeping Idol,           Infantry, Melee,        Ancient,    3, 2, 0, Inca1,    4, 00000000000000000000000100010
Dark Rose,              Speeder,  Gatling,      Standard,   1, 0, 0, Dark2,    6, 00000000001000000100000100010
Rose of Destruction,    Speeder,  Thorns,       Standard,   1, 0, 0, Dark3,    6, 00000000001000000100000100010
Vine Forest,            Infantry, Psi,          Psi,        2, 5, 0, Disable,  1, 00000000000000000000000000010
Charmander,             Infantry, Rifle,        Naked,      3, 2, 0, Char1,    0, 00000000000000100000000100010
Sea Colony Pod,         Foil,     Colony Pod,   Naked,      8, 6, 0, EcoEng2, -1, 00000000000000000000000000010
Pirate Ship,            Foil,     Flamethrower, Naked,      6, 5, 0, Mercs,   -1, 00100000000000000000001100110
Recon Rover,            Speeder,  Rifle,        Naked,      1, 3, 0, Human2,  -1, 00000000000000000000000100010
Regenerating Rose,      Infantry, Melee,        Standard,   2, 2, 0, Dark1,    6, 00000000000000000100000100010
Elite Guard,            Infantry, Melee,        Heavy,      2, 3, 0, Human2,  -1, 00000000000000000000000100010
Charmander Warrior,     Infantry, Flamethrower, Naked,      0, 3, 0, Char2,    0, 00000000000000000000000100010
Charmander Defender,    Infantry, Melee,        Heavy,      2, 3, 0, Char2,    8, 00000000000000000000000100010
Charmander Superior,    Speeder,  Somersault,   Standard,   0, 8, 0, Char3,    7, 00000000000000000000000110010
Clockwork Supertank,    Hovertank,Laser,        Naked,      0, 8, 0, Human3,  -1, 00000000000000000000000100010
A.P.C.,                 Infantry, Transport,    Standard,   2, 5, 3, Human2,  -1, 00000001000000000000000000010
Squirtle Sympathiser,   Infantry, Melee,        Naked,      3, 1, 0, Sqrt1,    2, 00000000000000100000000100010
Squirtle,               Gravship, Rifle,        Naked,      1, 4, 0, Sqrt2,    2, 00000000000000000000000100010
Wartortle,              Gravship, Gatling,      Standard,   1, 8, 0, Sqrt3,    5, 00000100000000000010000100010
Destroyer,              Cruiser,  Gatling,      Standard,   6, 6, 0, Naga2,   -1, 00000000000000000000000100010
Ballista,               Speeder,  Gatling,      Naked,      0, 5, 0, Mercs,   -1, 00000000000001000000000100010
Gunboat,                Foil,     Rifle,        Naked,      6, 3, 0, EcoEng2, -1, 00000000000000000000000100010
Coastal,                Foil,     Melee,        Heavy,      2, 4, 0, Naga2,   -1, 00000000000000000000000100010
Squirtle Spy,           Gravship, Probe Team,   Naked,      11,4, 0, Naga2,    2, 00000000000010000000000100010

#CITIZENS
Technician,       Technicians,         Disable, Disable, 2, 0, 0, 0000000
Entertainer,      Entertainers,        None,    Disable, 0, 2, 0, 0000000
Librarian,        Librarians,          Disable, Disable, 0, 0, 2, 0000000
Engineer,         Engineers,           Disable, Disable, 3, 0, 2, 0000000
Empath,           Empathi,             Disable, Disable, 2, 2, 0, 0000000
Thinker,          Thinkers,            Disable, Disable, 0, 1, 3, 0000000
Transcend,        Transcendi,          Disable, Disable, 2, 2, 4, 0000000
Unhappy Citizen,  Unhappy Citizens,
Citizen,          Citizens,
Happy Citizen,    Happy Citizens,

ECONOMY, ORDER, SUPPORT, TALENT, MORALE, POLICE, GROWTH, PLANET, PROBE, INDUSTRY, RESEARCH
ECONOMY, ORDER, SUPPORT, TALENT, MORALE, POLICE, GROWTH, PLANET, PROBE, INDUSTRY, RESEARCH
Initative, Religion, Values, Goal
Balance,         None,
Growth,          GrwFocs, ++GROWTH,  -INDUSTRY,  -ECONOMY
Industry,        IndFocs, -GROWTH,   ++INDUSTRY, -ECONOMY
Trade,           ResFocs, -GROWTH,   -INDUSTRY,  ++ECONOMY
Free Religion,   None,
Atheism,         AthReg,  ++POLICE,  ++SUPPORT,  -RESEARCH
Christianity,    ChrReg,  ++PLANET,  ++ORDER,    -GROWTH
Demonism,        DemReg,  +GROWTH,   ++RESEARCH, ---POLICE
Survival,        None,
Power,           CtlGoal, ++MORALE,  ++POLICE,   -PLANET
Knowledge,       KnwGoal, ++RESEARCH,+ORDER,     --PROBE
Wealth,          WltGoal, +INDUSTRY, +ECONOMY,   --MORALE
Undefined,       None,
We Must Be Free, Create,  +++SUPPORT,+POLICE,    ++PROBE,    --ORDER
Perfect Society, Create,  +GROWTH,   +RESEARCH,   +PLANET,    --MORALE
All Must Die,    Create,  +++MORALE, +++INDUSTRY,---GROWTH,  --PLANET

There's also facilities as well but that should get you going for a while.

We still have to balance the 7 new factions (and that will take time)!

Sure of course! I've found that it's not something I can "do" if you know what I mean... it's a case of running test games and posting my conclusions here rather than actual work in PhotoImpact or Notepad.

 

[vyeh]

I was starting to go through the techs. In the chart at #216, it seems Human Flexibility (Human1) has two prerequisites: Defense & Tactics and Interspecies Society. In the tech code in #226, it looks like it has only one prerequisite.

I'll look at the unit another time.

#CITIZENS
Technician,       Technicians,         Disable, Disable, 2, 0, 0, 0000000
Entertainer,      Entertainers,        None,    Disable, 0, 2, 0, 0000000
Librarian,        Librarians,          Disable, Disable, 0, 0, 2, 0000000
Engineer,         Engineers,           Disable, Disable, 3, 0, 2, 0000000
Empath,           Empathi,             Disable, Disable, 2, 2, 0, 0000000
Thinker,          Thinkers,            Disable, Disable, 0, 1, 3, 0000000
Transcend,        Transcendi,          Disable, Disable, 2, 2, 4, 0000000
Unhappy Citizen,  Unhappy Citizens,
Citizen,          Citizens,
Happy Citizen,    Happy Citizens,

A couple of points:
(1) How about advanced entertainers giving more psych points with an advanced tech/
(2) I understand you don't want to allow greater research, but how about Merchant specialists who increase trade income? (And maybe they increase psych, too.)

ECONOMY, ORDER, SUPPORT, TALENT, MORALE, POLICE, GROWTH, PLANET, PROBE, INDUSTRY, RESEARCH
ECONOMY, ORDER, SUPPORT, TALENT, MORALE, POLICE, GROWTH, PLANET, PROBE, INDUSTRY, RESEARCH
Initative, Religion, Values, Goal
Balance,         None,
Growth,          GrwFocs, ++GROWTH,  -INDUSTRY,  -ECONOMY
Industry,        IndFocs, -GROWTH,   ++INDUSTRY, -ECONOMY
Trade,           ResFocs, -GROWTH,   -INDUSTRY,  ++ECONOMY
Free Religion,   None,
Atheism,         AthReg,  ++POLICE,  ++SUPPORT,  -RESEARCH
Christianity,    ChrReg,  ++PLANET,  ++ORDER,    -GROWTH
Demonism,        DemReg,  +GROWTH,   ++RESEARCH, ---POLICE
Survival,        None,
Power,           CtlGoal, ++MORALE,  ++POLICE,   -PLANET
Knowledge,       KnwGoal, ++RESEARCH,+ORDER,     --PROBE
Wealth,          WltGoal, +INDUSTRY, +ECONOMY,   --MORALE
Undefined,       None,
We Must Be Free, Create,  +++SUPPORT,+POLICE,    ++PROBE,    --ORDER
Perfect Society, Create,  +GROWTH,   +RESEARCH,   +PLANET,    --MORALE
All Must Die,    Create,  +++MORALE, +++INDUSTRY,---GROWTH,  --PLANET

There's also facilities as well but that should get you going for a while.

Do you also have a Children's Creche (giving +2 GROWTH to a base)? (Is that Temple?)

I'm wondering how easy it is for Oblivion to popboom.

 

[Kilkakon]

I was starting to go through the techs. In the chart at #216, it seems Human Flexibility (Human1) has two prerequisites: Defense & Tactics and Interspecies Society. In the tech code in #226, it looks like it has only one prerequisite.

Ah whoops yeah, most of the tier one military techs didn't require Defence & Tactics, but now they do. Sorry about that.

A couple of points:
(1) How about advanced entertainers giving more psych points with an advanced tech/
(2) I understand you don't want to allow greater research, but how about Merchant specialists who increase trade income? (And maybe they increase psych, too.)

1. It's possible, very large bases tend to have to rely on entertainers due to there being only three facilities to control population.
2. Not sure. I haven't tried for an economic win in a while so I don't know how easy it is to get. I'm open.

The biggest problem if I get more specialists is that I have to think of more icon ideas for them.

Do you also have a Children's Creche (giving +2 GROWTH to a base)? (Is that Temple?)

I'm wondering how easy it is for Oblivion to popboom.

Yes Children's Creche equivalents are ingame, available from Growth Focus. Temples are Recreation Commons. I can post the facility list if you like, I just thought that you probably had enough to attack already.

Sorry for taking a while to reply by the way!