Lost Eden development thread

[Kilkakon]

Okay. I'll stop with techs for now and go and find some images so you have at least a few factions to work on as a start.

 

[Kilkakon]

Okay hambino, here's Oblivion to start off with. Feel free to add more Hell/shadowy/Rose/thorny images if as you feel required, and feel free to slice and dice them up to make them work out for you. They are in true colour at the moment.

Thanks. Let me know when you have them so I can take them down again. By the time you have finished that one I should have a few more ready.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post folks.

Moderator Action: Warning. Attachment removed. Please do not post graphics containing nudity.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[vyeh]

Sure. They can't build more Pirate Ships until Mercs of course, it's just to start off.

One is enough to sink transports and gunships.

Too much? I was thinking that coastal bases would be able to use this as well to pump production, hence the high maintenance (to be honest, it is the same as what SMAC charges).

I am not sure. I think we should look at it. In SMAC, at the beginning of the game, sea squares can either be 3 nutrients, 3 energy or 2 nutrients, 1 mineral, which means there is a lot of excess energy. In Lost Eden, the most a sea square will produce is 1 trade (with +2 ECONOMY). So I'm not sure Dry Docks would be worth the expense for an aquatic faction.

For a coastal base, it is also not able to get a lot of energy from some sea squares to support the mining platforms. And if it is a coastal base, there won't be many mining platforms to benefit from the Dry Dock.

I am wondering if a maintenance of 2 would be better.

Of course there are less Ecology facilities (just the Vine Preserve, baring the Ranger's innate Tree Farm) so vine pops can be pretty common for large sea bases.

So the other factions can't build tree farms? Are you are aware of the Eco-Damage exploit. After a vine pop, every Vine Preserve built at any base will increase the clean mineral limit at every base by one.

I've just realised that I should add a naval/gravship spy so the Pirates can steal gold, or just make the normal one a gravship. Which would you prefer (spies at the moment are race neutral sitting on the Mercs tech)?

That's right, you aren't worried about reverse engineering. The difference between a speeder chassis and a gravship chassis (other than movement points) is that the gravship chassis ignores terrain. It won't have problems going through vines (or seavines). I think it would be better to have land spies on speeder chassis and a naval spy on a naval chassis.

I'll be more than willing to make .flcs for you, Kilkakon. Making them's cake for me and I'll actually make sure that those yellow spots don't exist since I'm making them for someone else lol

Hehe having people helping is awesome. Thanks guys (I assume).

It is good to see you two helping each other out, although there was a lot to be said for not having to scroll down as far to see the context for a quote.

 

[Kilkakon]

One is enough to sink transports and gunships.

Or get eaten by Floating Vine Masses or get Cloned by sea villages. It's all the luck of the draw.

Remember though... they wouldn't sink them, but capture them (sometimes). When a Pirate Ship converts a target, it also converts the whole stack, so any other ships or transport and their cargo are captured too. Might be an idea to go back to a Gunboat as their starting unit.

I am not sure. I think we should look at it. In SMAC, at the beginning of the game, sea squares can either be 3 nutrients, 3 energy or 2 nutrients, 1 mineral, which means there is a lot of excess energy. In Lost Eden, the most a sea square will produce is 1 trade (with +2 ECONOMY). So I'm not sure Dry Docks would be worth the expense for an aquatic faction.

For a coastal base, it is also not able to get a lot of energy from some sea squares to support the mining platforms. And if it is a coastal base, there won't be many mining platforms to benefit from the Dry Dock.

I am wondering if a maintenance of 2 would be better.

Okay then we'll go with the 2 then.

Pirates are pretty tough at the moment hey. They lolligag around with technology--pretty much HAS to make a beeline for Trade Focus, trying to avoid wasting any money with maintenance on unnecessary facilities--but by the time they get Trade Focus they have plenty of bases due to the high growth. With Industry Focus then the production starts rolling in... of course they are pretty safe from attacks during this time, and being the first in the water means a lot of villages from which to learn techs.

So the other factions can't build tree farms? Are you are aware of the Eco-Damage exploit. After a vine pop, every Vine Preserve built at any base will increase the clean mineral limit at every base by one.

Yes to the first question, it's the same as the Supply Crawlers for CyndaTech. I was not aware of that exploit no... I really don't play the normal game enough, and whenever I have I always have had +3 PLANET so there is no eco damage.

That's right, you aren't worried about reverse engineering. The difference between a speeder chassis and a gravship chassis (other than movement points) is that the gravship chassis ignores terrain. It won't have problems going through vines (or seavines). I think it would be better to have land spies on speeder chassis and a naval spy on a naval chassis.

Well I am thinking of (God willing) what icons I could have here. The land spy would be that boy with the scroll (that one I showed you earlier) so I was thinking that a natural sea spy would be a Squirtle, but they are gravships rather than foils. But if you can think of a naval spy that makes sense then I'm happy to go with that.

It is good to see you two helping each other out, although there was a lot to be said for not having to scroll down as far to see the context for a quote.

I meant you as well of course. I'm sorry I am not sure what you mean by the second half of that sentence though.



I have got all of the technology icons done, it took long enough though. I'll be focusing on trying to eliminate as many entries from my todo list as possible tomorrow, but will be wanting to keep pace with however fast hambino can flc things.

 

[vyeh]

Or get eaten by Floating Vine Masses or get Cloned by sea villages. It's all the luck of the draw.

True, but the luck of the draw is what keeps the game interesting.

Remember though... they wouldn't sink them, but capture them (sometimes). When a Pirate Ship converts a target, it also converts the whole stack, so any other ships or transport and their cargo are captured too. Might be an idea to go back to a Gunboat as their starting unit.

If someone sends out a stack, then the Pirate Ship should be able to capture the other ships (the strongest ship in the stack should be the defender).


Okay then we'll go with the 2 then.

Pirates are pretty tough at the moment hey. They lolligag around with technology--pretty much HAS to make a beeline for Trade Focus, trying to avoid wasting any money with maintenance on unnecessary facilities--but by the time they get Trade Focus they have plenty of bases due to the high growth.

Do you have Unity supply pods?

With Industry Focus then the production starts rolling in... of course they are pretty safe from attacks during this time, and being the first in the water means a lot of villages from which to learn techs.

It will be interesting to see how they do in the play testing.

Yes to the first question, it's the same as the Supply Crawlers for CyndaTech. I was not aware of that exploit no... I really don't play the normal game enough, and whenever I have I always have had +3 PLANET so there is no eco damage.

To get 3 minerals in a sea square, it would have to be a shelf square (+1 mineral), there would have to be a mining platform (+1 mineral) and there would have to be a Dry Dock (+1), right.

Can they build mining platforms in ocean and ocean trench squares? For that matter, can Work Boats raise and lower sea squares?

Well I am thinking of (God willing) what icons I could have here. The land spy would be that boy with the scroll (that one I showed you earlier) so I was thinking that a natural sea spy would be a Squirtle, but they are gravships rather than foils. But if you can think of a naval spy that makes sense then I'm happy to go with that.

That sounds fine (at least until the icon limit is solved). Just be aware that the Pirates' spy will be able to travel over land.

I meant you as well of course.

You're welcome.

I'm sorry I am not sure what you mean by the second half of that sentence though.

I compose my replies by hitting the quote button under your message, which produces the "Reply to Topic" window. If I don't remember the context of one of your comments, I scroll down the window and look at your post (all of my quotes disappear in the composition box I am editing) and, if necessary, at earlier posts of mine and your. When you and hambino had several posts, I had to scroll past those posts.

I have got all of the technology icons done, it took long enough though. I'll be focusing on trying to eliminate as many entries from my todo list as possible tomorrow, but will be wanting to keep pace with however fast hambino can flc things.

Good luck.

 

[hambino]

The mods ate your image attachment, Kilkakon, before I could get to it to download, lol.

Try setting all your stuff up in a rapidshare and link me to it via PM then.

 

[Kilkakon]

True, but the luck of the draw is what keeps the game interesting.

Yeah.

If someone sends out a stack, then the Pirate Ship should be able to capture the other ships (the strongest ship in the stack should be the defender).

Of course.

Do you have Unity supply pods?

I do yeah, they are villages though.

It will be interesting to see how they do in the play testing.

Okay.

To get 3 minerals in a sea square, it would have to be a shelf square (+1 mineral), there would have to be a mining platform (+1 mineral) and there would have to be a Dry Dock (+1), right.

Can they build mining platforms in ocean and ocean trench squares? For that matter, can Work Boats raise and lower sea squares?

I am unsure about this. I will check.

That sounds fine (at least until the icon limit is solved). Just be aware that the Pirates' spy will be able to travel over land.

Sure okay.

I compose my replies by hitting the quote button under your message, which produces the "Reply to Topic" window. If I don't remember the context of one of your comments, I scroll down the window and look at your post (all of my quotes disappear in the composition box I am editing) and, if necessary, at earlier posts of mine and your. When you and hambino had several posts, I had to scroll past those posts.

Sure fair enough.

Good luck.

Thanks.

The mods ate your image attachment, Kilkakon, before I could get to it to download, lol.

Try setting all your stuff up in a rapidshare and link me to it via PM then.

Yeah... sorry people. Gah I feel terrible, I should have thought. I can't PM you though either. I'll just give up on it. It wasn't worth the trouble. (all sad now)

 

[hambino]

Yeah... sorry people. Gah I feel terrible, I should have thought. I can't PM you though either. I'll just give up on it. It wasn't worth the trouble. (all sad now)

Ah, I wouldn't worry to much about it. It was an artistic endeavor and you just accidentally got a little overzealous is all. Happens to the best of us. Shame that I can't help still, but I did a little digging to see if I could find a program that might help you make the .flcs yourself.

Try here - http://amazing-photo-editor.software.informer.com/7.1/

Alternatively, if you can, you could post up factions with non-nude images for me to compile.

 

[Kilkakon]

I'm just sensitive, especially to the feelings of others if I let them down. I'll spin my worship CD a bit before I do anything else as that helps me out.

Okay I'll give it a shot.

Looks like we have an answer about if the nudity level would have been appriopriate though vyeh. It appears that the censored route is the only path available -- not sure what I will do about units.

 

[hambino]

I'm just sensitive, especially to the feelings of others if I let them down. I'll spin my worship CD a bit before I do anything else as that helps me out.

Fair enough. Just don't let this discourage you, you've done too much to leave it all unfinished because of one bomb, lol

Looks like we have an answer about if the nudity level would have been appriopriate though vyeh. It appears that the censored route is the only path available -- not sure what I will do about units.

What's more important, the data or the jazz? Maybe to get the modpack on most forums, you'd need to restrict the content a bit, but the internet's vast, mysterious, and full of hideyholes for the information that wants to be set free. Don't give up so easily.

 

[Kilkakon]

I've been told that we are going out for family lunch, which is a bit badly timed as I can't confront things. It gets me out of the house though so I'll probably be cooled off, although still confused about what to do next. We'll see, I really should go and pray for an hour or so.

The program didn't work by the way; there's no FLC support as far as I can see. It doesn't matter really, I'll just leave it blank.

 

[hambino]

Alright, that's a shame. Have fun at your family function, though. I'll keep pawing around the dank and dirty recesses of the internet for .flc editors. Man, why did the developers insist on -this- format?

I wonder... since the movies can seemingly be read in .avi format instead of .wve, if the .fkcs couldn't work as .gifs?

 

[vyeh]

I do yeah, they are villages though.

If there are sea villages, then one way for the Pirates to make money is to explore the sea villages. Even getting an IoD equivalent is good because you get money for killing them.

Yeah... sorry people. Gah I feel terrible, I should have thought. I can't PM you though either. I'll just give up on it. It wasn't worth the trouble. (all sad now)

Feel free to use the CGN Off-Topic forum for transferring back and forth. In the last month, there has only been one post (which was a response 6 and a half years later!), so there is no one to offend. I re-reviewed the rules and there isn't a problem. (I'm the listed moderator, so I can be quite definite in my assertion. Hambino may have to have registered for two days and made two posts before he can make an attachment, but shouldn't have a problem once registered with downloading Kilkakon's attachment.)

Looks like we have an answer about if the nudity level would have been appriopriate though vyeh. It appears that the censored route is the only path available -- not sure what I will do about units.

As I said before, there won't be a problem posting at CGN whatever you are comfortable posting.

 

[Kilkakon]

Okay everyone I'm back. Hey! I got a bit of time in the car to reflect and stuff.

1. Sorry for carrying on like a kid a bit. I got a little immature, so sorry about that. As I said I am a bit sensitive about things (especially when it's not something I can say was something other people did) but I am all good now. To be honest it was probably better that Petek zapped it from existence than some loony going yum and uploading it elsewhere. So thanks for being good at your job Petek.

2. As for the FLCs, what we'll do is just have the FLCs without the leaders themselves appearing in them. It's a practical solution to the problem. I've attached Oblivion's pics again (without Oblivion himself of course) so hambino can sort it out. Thanks hambino.

3. As for the finished mod, I am unsure what I will be able to do about units themselves. I'm a bit against neutering things, but as most of the units aren't done yet anyway, it's hearsay until we have something concrete and then reassess. I can't put a timeframe on when the units will be done though... it is the one thing that is out of my hands for this project.

Thanks for the offer vyeh by the way. I was a bit silly because really I didn't want to have nudity (save for the units if they are small enough) in the released version anyway, so it's probably good what happened anyhow.

Yay that's sorted! I better get into work now -- first thing is a Squirtle Spy and then checking the naval production for you vyeh. Might then go and do facility icons as they are pretty easy now that I have done the technology icons. Not sure what to do next -- I know that I should run some AI tests sometime on the laptop when it's free.

EDIT: The results for you vyeh: 4 production is the highest one can get overall on a sea square (1 from the Pirates' Shelf bonus, 2 from the Mining Platform, 1 from the Dry Dock).

EDIT2: Facility icons done. Except for a few that I couldn't think of something on the spot, like the Town Centre. We'll see. I'll go and edit Dune now to upload for tonight and then see how the time goes... I have to drop Dad off at the airport at 4AM tomorrow morning.

EDIT3: I have made some changes to CyndaTech. They are now erratic and have a MORALE penalty instead of a RESEARCH penalty. Their priority is now GROWTH instead of MORALE. The civic Athiesm now has a research penalty instead of a morale penalty (although CyndaTech is immune to that anyway). Hopefully these changes will make the CyndaTech AI a bit less of a pushover.

 

[vyeh]

To be honest it was probably better that Petek zapped it from existence than some loony going yum and uploading it elsewhere. So thanks for being good at your job Petek.

I definitely do not want to come across as a moderator at this forum, but you probably should be aware that in the CivFanatics Forum Rules, there is the following rule, Respect the authority of moderators which includes the following:

Public discussions of moderator actions are not allowed on the forum.

3. As for the finished mod, I am unsure what I will be able to do about units themselves. I'm a bit against neutering things, but as most of the units aren't done yet anyway, it's hearsay until we have something concrete and then reassess. I can't put a timeframe on when the units will be done though... it is the one thing that is out of my hands for this project.

Thanks for the offer vyeh by the way. ... I didn't want to have nudity (save for the units if they are small enough) in the released version.

You're welcome. If there is a problem with the units, my offer to host still stands.

first thing is a Squirtle Spy and then checking the naval production for you vyeh. Might then go and do facility icons as they are pretty easy now that I have done the technology icons. Not sure what to do next -- I know that I should run some AI tests sometime on the laptop when it's free.

If you are happy with the faction files, maybe we can start looking at your alphax.txt changes systematically (section by section). In discussing Blackband Pirates, I realized your alphax.txt changes might have implications for balancing.

4 production is the highest one can get overall on a sea square (1 from the Pirates' Shelf bonus, 2 from the Mining Platform, 1 from the Dry Dock).

I assume the 2 for the Mining Platform is 1 at the beginning of the game and 2 after Advanced Ecological Engineering. And that the Pirates can mine ocean and ocean trench squares after Advanced Ecological Engineering.

I'll go and edit Dune now to upload for tonight

What are you doing with Dune?

 

[Kilkakon]

I definitely do not want to come across as a moderator at this forum, but you probably should be aware that in the CivFanatics Forum Rules, there is the following rule, Respect the authority of moderators which includes the following: Public discussions of moderator actions are not allowed on the forum.

Even to say thanks? Seems weird but okay fair enough, I'll stay silent. (I understand why the rule exists but as I have a criminal record now I don't want to say anything out of line at the risk of more accidents).

You're welcome. If there is a problem with the units, my offer to host still stands.

Sure thanks, I'll keep it in mind. I would like to release it here if I can get away with it though, after all it was kind of created here. Although to be honest I did start this mod for me--without intending to release it--but as you showed so much interest I started thinking of ways to water things down so I could release the thing. Once again though we'll just have to wait and see what the units look like before we can really make any decisions.

If you are happy with the faction files, maybe we can start looking at your alphax.txt changes systematically (section by section). In discussing Blackband Pirates, I realized your alphax.txt changes might have implications for balancing.

Sure of course. I have mentioned the above CyndaTech edits (not sure if you noticed or not). I have also noticed that the CyndaTech impunity to the Atheism penalty seems not to work, perhaps because they have too many social effects already. I am unsure.

Fallen should get some AI runs as well as they have been adjusted back to what we agreed on for them.

I have yet to really do any AI runs for the latest batch of 7 at all.

What you have said about section-by-section does sound like a good idea as well when I get some tests down. What I might do tomorrow is do some work for Dad (I'm a Clerk at the moment during the study break) and while I am doing that on the laptop have this PC going with AI tests. I'll also leave one on of the first seven once I finish this post.

I assume the 2 for the Mining Platform is 1 at the beginning of the game and 2 after Advanced Ecological Engineering. And that the Pirates can mine ocean and ocean trench squares after Advanced Ecological Engineering.

Mining Platforms are unlocked by Industrial Focus, which also increases their production, so they are 2 production out of the box. Advanced Ecological Engineering is the slot used for Naval Exploration now, so the Pirates can improve all sea squares straight away.

What are you doing with Dune?

I am Let's Playing it as well -- thought that having just one game would bore people. It's becoming a bit of a chore though due to my computer not being good enough to record and play at once so I have to manually edit the narration to fit, which takes some time. I should dedicate a whole day to doing a whole bunch of them so I can get ahead instead of having a video looming over my head 4 days in the week.

 

[vyeh]

Even to say thanks? Seems weird but okay fair enough, I'll stay silent. (I understand why the rule exists but as I have a criminal record now I don't want to say anything out of line at the risk of more accidents).

Actually, I think thanks are fine. The heading of the rule was "Respect the moderators." I just wanted you to be aware of the policy to avoid another accident. You're always safe PMing. Many of the rules evolved to handle Off-Topic, which can get contentious.

Sure thanks, I'll keep it in mind. I would like to release it here if I can get away with it though, after all it was kind of created here. Although to be honest I did start this mod for me--without intending to release it--but as you showed so much interest I started thinking of ways to water things down so I could release the thing. Once again though we'll just have to wait and see what the units look like before we can really make any decisions.

Scient also started here.

Sure of course. I have mentioned the above CyndaTech edits (not sure if you noticed or not).

Could you give me the post #? (It has been kind of busy; after forgetting hambino posts late at night for me, I checked here before I went to sleep last night and found seven updated threads. It is actually my fault, as I have told a couple of people at other forums that you might be helpful and I suggested to someone else about starting a thread.

I have also noticed that the CyndaTech impunity to the Atheism penalty seems not to work, perhaps because they have too many social effects already. I am unsure.

See this post (I should put it in the SMAC Academy) for which bonuses count against the limit of 8 and which do not.

Mining Platforms are unlocked by Industrial Focus, which also increases their production, so they are 2 production out of the box. Advanced Ecological Engineering is the slot used for Naval Exploration now, so the Pirates can improve all sea squares straight away.

So initially, the Pirates get one mineral off the sea shelf.

I am Let's Playing it as well -- thought that having just one game would bore people. It's becoming a bit of a chore though due to my computer not being good enough to record and play at once so I have to manually edit the narration to fit, which takes some time. I should dedicate a whole day to doing a whole bunch of them so I can get ahead instead of having a video looming over my head 4 days in the week.

Does that mean you play a game and report what happens?

 

[Kilkakon]

Scient also started here.

Fair enough!

Could you give me the post #? (It has been kind of busy; after forgetting hambino posts late at night for me, I checked here before I went to sleep last night and found seven updated threads. It is actually my fault, as I have told a couple of people at other forums that you might be helpful and I suggested to someone else about starting a thread.

I'll just copy and paste it here:

I have made some changes to CyndaTech. They are now erratic and have a MORALE penalty instead of a RESEARCH penalty. Their priority is now GROWTH instead of MORALE. The civic Athiesm now has a research penalty instead of a morale penalty (although CyndaTech is immune to that anyway). Hopefully these changes will make the CyndaTech AI a bit less of a pushover.

And naughty vyeh! Now you have sicked two very advanced mods on me and my brain was like "Gah this is so complex to take in all at once!" It doesn't help that I don't play the normal game very much although I do understand most of it. It's no problem, I'm just going to give them a go on the weekend and then comment.

See this post (I should put it in the SMAC Academy) for which bonuses count against the limit of 8 and which do not.

Tragically I do not have permission to view that post.

So initially, the Pirates get one mineral off the sea shelf.

That is correct. They grow fast but that's pretty much all they can do until Industry Focus and Trade Focus.

Does that mean you play a game and report what happens?

Somewhat. I could probably define it best as light entertainment. It's playing a game, with narration that attempts to be assuming. Here is my channel if you want to hear my weird Australian voice.

 

[hambino]

Just grabbed the .rar. I've got a doctor appointment tomorrow and a surgery at some unknown time so I probably won't have anything done until the end of the weekend.

 

[Kilkakon]

Okay, thanks! Good luck with both the flc and the doctors.

EDIT: I started an AI test this morning, so far Fallen is the most powerful (this is turn 300), although Rakis, Realm were tied for most powerful for most of the game. Saig (CyndaTech) is going somewhat okay, better than Adventurers who are the other weak AI faction. I'm just trying to change the AI-sensitive settings to make sure that all factions can be a challenge or at least not pathetic.