LotR 2 - Zealous Zulus (Monarch variant)

[cpp1]

Here's the world map after Jester's last turn (4/12/02). Here's a few observations based on a quick glance at the map.

Is that a Greek horseman I see by Swazi, how did he get way over there? Oh, maybe it was from that Greek galley.

Lugdunum is back, over by the iron in the jungle. Is that how the Romans are getting their iron? Need to investigate this.

New Russian city of Karkov is placed RIGHT NEXT to a dot in our dot map I was hoping to get soon, to provide some protection for Zimbabwe on those attacks from the mountains to the east.

Personally, I'd much rather be facing Russian swords than Roman legions and also the Roman core is much closer to us making it that much more dangerous.

 

[Arathorn]

That's not an encouraging map.

We need more cities -- found down by the spice on our river, raze Kharkov and Lugdunum and settle near there. Capture Kaifeng, as it's well situated (provided it ever gets to population 2 and won't auto-raze)

Why is Umtata (pop 1) building a worker when it won't grow for 4 more turns?

I guess the Hlobane worker factor idea was vetoed. Too bad, I kinda liked it. Having the extra jungle-clearers would've been very nice.

Thanks for the map, cpp1!

Arathorn

 

[cpp1]

Also I wonder about all the swords we have in production. The problem is that we'll probably trade them 1 for 1 with Roman legions and we cannot afford to do that.

If we use catapults and horseman instead I think that we can do better than 1 for 1. Horses can retreat if the battle is going bad for them. Also, they can attack out of a city and get back in in one turn, swords have to stay out, exposed to attack, and don't get to the barracks as fast to heal up. Finally, horses enable you to concentrate your forces at hot spots more quickly.

 

[Arathorn]

I'm think/hoping the swordsmen are placeholders for horsemen, once we get horses reattached to our supply network. Iester did say that had been pillaged. And there are obviously a bunch of workers on the horse square.

Sirian will sort it all out, I'm sure.

Of course, an army of four swordsman would be pretty tough at this point in time. Not quite like an army of four knights, but we might not be able to wait that long....

Arathorn

 

[Sirian]

IT 350AD: We're just treading water here. I've seen worse wars, on a turn by turn basis, but don't recall ever being in a situation quite this bleak... because here there can be no relief, and we are matching our civ against five at once, and that's just for the moment. It's going to get WORSE.

I rushed the Pentagon with leader. I rushed courthouse in Ngome with cash.

A peek into Swazi reveals that its temple is gone. We lost this city at some point? When was that? I must have missed that in the report.

In an odd sort of way, the Great Wall is working against us. The AI's refuse to attack our cities, for the most part, yet they just have TOO MANY UNITS for us to stop them all with offensive counterattacks. We aren't in the least bit of danger of losing any core cities, but our roads are easy pickins, ANY AI unit can disrupt them, and have only one tenuous lifeline to our iron source. I can well understand why Jester saw a lot of pillaging near Z-town. We used to have two fronts, but we're going to have to stop thinking that way now. I see five fronts.

I look over the map and I see one, ONE defensive unit occupying high ground. So I have to ask... what happened to all the units I left on high ground at the end of my last turn? Were they killed? Or MOVED? When my turn ends this time, there will again be units on high ground. If they are moved for anything less than dire emergencies, I expect to hear more reports of pillaging wearing us down. We haven't taken time to stop and build infrastructure (all this time, and still no market in Ulundi -- and probably won't be one when my turn ends, either, as that is our weakest front).

I'm going to try to do six things:

* Get roads through the forest between Intombe and the sea and plant defenders there to plug that backline opening for the Romans. This will either force them to go around the east side of the town, invade more by sea, or they will be doing the attacking against our fortified units, instead of us HAVING TO attack them because they are marching through on a pillage mission.

* Get roads into the hills and mountains above Ulundi and put some defensive units on permanent garrison there. If possible, I want to funnel the invading Russians into the flat area east of Z-town, instead of them coming across the mountains and having high ground until they are right on top of our roads.

* Found at least one new town.

* Raze at least one enemy town.

* Build libraries. The AI's are one tech away from Education and I'm expecting them to hit that on my turn. (Would be nice if they don't, but would be nice if money would rain from the sky, too).

* Clear some jungle in our back lines.


Our Fronts:

Not sure what Jester was smoking in his evaluation of front strength, but my take is the exact opposite of his. The Roman front is clearly our strongest. We have only a few tiles to defend up there, and the Romans are all coming from one direction on one predictable path. We also have a buncha cata's up there.

By contrast, in the south we are bare thin. Not that the cities are thin, but we have virtually nothing for fighting off road pillagers, and if we lose any units down there we're going to be in really dire shape, perhaps even see the roads cut off, and lose access to pikes and swords, as well (perhaps) knights.

ROMAN FRONT: area north of Intombe.

RUSSIAN FRONT: area from the south side of Intombe to the north of Bapedi.

EASTERN FRONT: Bapedi

SOUTHERN FRONT: Ngome and Iron Town.

COASTAL FRONT: Everything else, which is all exposed to the sea.


360AD: I presume that Greek horseman got there by the sea. He pillages our land then rides into the jungle. Romans advance, Chinese sword stack advances on Iron Town. A Greek horse advances toward Bapedi by way passing Ngome -- the harbinger of hordes yet to come, as it turns out. (The Greeks have stopped targetting Isand and are coming for our heartland now, making the Bapedi front a genuine new front -- more on that later).

Our two horse in south are already wounded so they do nothing. Our cata's land a hit. And that's it. That's all we have down there. I move our army out of Iron town to guard the road between the two towns.

Reconnected our horses at Ulundi.

In the north, three of our cata's are in Hlobane. I pull them up to attack the most forward Roman Legion, blunt him down to 1 hp then finish him with horseman. Fortify a pike and impi on tile due west of Intombe, as there are two horsies under the next legion and they are going to have free reign into our territory.

I send ALL the workers down south northward.

370AD: Romans Advance. Chinese ignore our towns and advance to pillage roads. Not good. Russian stack of four advancing toward Z-town, and MAJOR stack coming up behind them. More Greeks are showing up, and in the far east, Greek units literally ride right past the gates of Isand... on their way westward.

I have to block units above Ulundi. Impi are mobilized to do this trick. I have five such units now for this duty, and they will prevent Russians from taking ANY high ground in this area or getting onto any of our roads.

The Roman horses advance at top speed toward Hlobane, leaving behind their legion defenders. They are slaughtered by our horsemen while the legion is pounded by cats then finished off. I send an impi northeast onto the gold mountain. I am going to poke around, scout a bit, maybe pillage some, harass, whatever I can do.

Down south I am in a pickle. Five Chinese swords, three now standing on the road in the plains SW of Ngome. Uh... I have two horse. Two horse cannot kill three swords. That road is toast. I vow to prevent the loss of any more roads. I opt to leave the three swords next to Ngome alone and take out the two west of Iron Town. One of our horse has terrible luck but manages to retreat (after doing one hp of damage). The other wins, but now, again, both are wounded. I swap the pike being produced in Iron to a sword.

Bapedi is swapped to settler. Ulundi can manage 15 shields net now on break-even food, so it is swapped to pike production. Z-town and Hlobane are swapped to libraries, and our coastal towns are put on harbors. (I know it's rough, but if we don't MAKE time to make infrastructure a priority, none will ever get built!)

I move the major southern worker stack onto a swamp tile west of Bapedi. Seven workers plus one from that area means a force that can clear a jungle tile in three turns. Other workers in the area are all sent to the hills and mountains directly northeast of Ulundi, and my blockade there remains solid and, for the moment, relatively secure. Three workers are sent into jungle east of Mpondo, they can clear a tile there by early in next player's turn.

Can we please get some IRRIGATED GRASSLAND GOING??? We left Despotism behind quite some time ago. I just shake my head in misery every time I see players go and mine over my irrigations in game after game after game after game. ... Really, there is a point to them. We don't need them at towns with flood plains, but Ulundi, Bapedi and everything in the jungles west of there could really use some. (Why does nobody, and I mean NO BODY, see eye to eye with me on this point? I must be out of my head or something, right? Nobody irrigates grasslands except for the stupid AI... and Sirian, the poor misguided fellow).

380AD: Oh drat, here come the Greeks: horsies and a hoplite. Romans advance but with just a couple of units. Chinese pillage the road with one sword, then two attack Ngome across the river and both die. (One of just two attacks on any of our cities on my entire turn). Russians are marching on Z-town and our brand new swordsman there attacks them... and dies.

Ancient warfare suxorz. Have I mentioned that? Sometimes it can be grand and glorious, or necessary, or tremendously rewarding, but dayum it suxorz anyway. And yet... look at all the benefit we get out of the leaders. If we could just make peace and take the pressure off ourselves for 20 or 30 turns, we could get something positive done instead of treading water. Of course, that's not the point here, but this is dire. This is "stairs trap in Diablo One on dlvl 10, must come up from 13, naked all the way, to recover your stuff" kind of grueling. Or... "sped-up-to-all-hell Diablo Two battlenet servers, finish-act-four-and-five while the monsters are faster than what your vid card can display so you don't even get to see what killed you" kind of grueling.

I mean, yeah... it's fun. IT'S FUN. But in another sense it's also a bit tiring. I almost feel like I am playing a simulated RTS game.

In the north, I beat down the Romans some more, send all we have at the Russian invaders (only lost the one sword, but sheesh). Scrambling to take out the Chinese in the South, where another stack of several has approached. Our cats manage to wound two so that means two will flee, which is all I can do this turn.

Our impi raiders in the north advance on the Roman town east of Antium.

390AD: The entire Roman army turns around and heads north or northeast. Cy Gambit in action. And just in time to give us a needed break to take care of this massive force of Russian units incoming. In the south we get a break from the Chinese onslaught... so that we can enjoy the Iroquois onslaught instead. At least they send only archers not swords. The Bapedi front is the diciest, with shuffling insufficient units.

Our settler produced at Bapedi heads for the jungles and that remaining spice. (Not that extra resources do us much good, but other than Iron town, we've not had a new town since I founded green and yellow dots).

400AD: Chivalry popped out of the library. Roman units vanish off our radar. Russian mojo stacks incoming now, and knights will be online just in time to give us the edge to take them all out (if barely) without allowing any pillaging. I use pikes to blockade some key tiles but don't have enough to block the whole front.

South is dicey, so is Bapedi, but I hole up on high ground and in defensive spots and send two swordsmen out toward Kaifeng. Will take luck, but what the Hell, can't sit here forever on our thumbs.

After attacking, I upgraded some of our wounded horsies with movement remaining... to knights. Didn't matter to me if they were elite or not. OUCHER, 80 gold a pop. Our treasury takes a big hit in a hurry. Our economy suxorz, like really badly. We have Sistine and not a single cathedral, running 20% lux and still need an entertainer in Hlobane.

The north front, which Jester predicted to be trouble, has been the one front at which the AI's haven't even so much as been able to make us laugh. They're progress was NOT even that good, and now they are off chasing our impi around. (Would not hear from Rome again on my turn, in any significant way, although a second impi I would send out... oh heck, more on that later. ).


Not only grueling turns, but so much going on, grueling reports too!

(TO BE CONTINUED...)

 

[Arathorn]

Some of 'em were still around when my turn started. The Russians killed them, in their Wheaties turn. Two impis fortified on one mountain managed to do one hp of damage to attacking swords. Another mountain impi did two before dying.

I think the idea is good -- but they just DIED. And didn't get replaced.

As for irrigating, that's something else I wanted to do, but I passed a lot of workers off in roading/jungle clearing mode. No chance to irrigate, really (I also spent a lot of time getting road to iron built up).

And we've only been out of despotism ~17 turns -- that's not terribly long. Iester put priority on reattaching roads, which I struggle to fault.

Still just too much to do and too little time to do it.

BTW, my most troublesome front has been the Russian front the whole time.... Well, that and the bigtime worry about Isand before the full impi army.

Arathorn

 

[Zed-F]

Nobody irriagtes grassland? Baloney. I do it all the time! Now, I don't do a lot of it prior to getting out of Despotism, but it does happen. I recall doing more than my fair share of irrigation in RBD9, for instance.

Maybe you meant nobody in this game?

 

[cpp1]

Wow Sirian! I am hanging on every word of your report, hoping that the next sentence won't contain word of disaster. This is a very INTENSE game and there's not any easy way out, like suing for peace or paying someone else to attack your enemies.

I am so happy to hear that Chivalry popped out of the GL before Education, it gives us a much better chance (although compared to what I'm not sure). It might be worth it to rush cathedrals if we get any more leaders, since we have the limit in armies and there are no wonders available.

Swazi was lost! Was that in Jester's report? I mean brief reports are one thing, but surely losing and retaking a city deserves a line or two.

Arathorn only got to Monarchy on his turn so it hasn't been that long since irrigation made sense. It's not like we haven't been doing anything in the meantime.

Have to sign off now. Good luck on the rest of your turn!

 

[Sirian]

Zed: maybe you're right. Maybe you're an exception. It's been a long time since we were really in a game together, though. There was RBD 11, but it had zero grass all game long! There was RBD9, but it had only a couple of grass. And that's been about it since RBD4.


I would like to write a fully detailed report for the second half of my turn, but the reality is, I can't do so tonight. Rather than hold up the game, I'll summarize.


ROMAN FRONT: Quiet the second half of my turn. I got our impi up to Ravenna, pillaged two tiles then got him out of there just as a BUNCH of legions gave chase. When he reached Russian lands, the Romans started coming toward Intombe again. Our roads are nearly done and defenders in place.

RUSSIAN FRONT: I killed over two dozen Russian units on my turn. That bear repeating? Over two dozen. All but one of them were regulars, but I lost some units, including swords and horses. I have regained control of all the high ground, and as of the last turn, it's the Russians who are turning around (what few units remain from the trickle end of their mojo stacks).

GREEK FRONT: Our first knight battles took place here, as I had to clean up infiltrators.

That shot shows me killing the third of three horsies penetrating deep. I got the hoplite, too, later. You can also see a cleared jungle tile there (now irrigated). That worker stack is clearing another jungle tile near Ulundi. I urge that all 8 of those workers be kept in a single stack and used to clear jungle after jungle tile continuously for the indefinite future. Can build a road and irrigation on the cleared tile in one turn, too, in most cases. Just seems dicey with all the penetration behind our lines to expect workers to sit in one spot for 8-12+ turns.

I lost a couple impi fortified on roads to prevent Ngome from being disconnected. Nothing I could do. Even now, at turn's end, not enough units in that region to occupy all the high ground and defend the towns and roads and prevent worse troubles.

Our two swords I sent out DID manage to raze Kaifeng, with 1 hp left apiece.

Holding on to the city would have been a pipe dream, given our current resources, and I felt it important to make some headway on some front somewhere, and that was the only one with which I could do something with just a couple "spare" (heh) units.

There is a stack of five in place to move on Bapedi next turn. They MAY attack our defenders outside the town across the river, but more likely they will bypass them. In which case, move the defenders back into the town. A whole lot of shufflin goin on.

Top priority: don't lose the towns! After that, try to prevent pillaging. Third priority, hold the high ground (helpful in preventing the first two, as well). Finally, conserve units. Don't attack every available target, especially anything on high ground.

If units on high ground get beaten down by Wheaties Eaters (TM) try to replace them if possible, or at least note to next player where they got wiped out so he can try to replace them.

CHINESE/IRO FRONT: Treading water. Our horsies and knights down there lived, and almost all our units lived, but the enemy has way superior numbers and mostly just tries to go around the towns rather than attack them. This is the worst front for logistics, in every way, so its vitally important to conserve forces here. They are next-to-impossible to replace.

COASTAL FRONT: Nothing happened on my turn, but a Greek ship is threatening Swazi again, so I moved a cata to within attack range, and a knight or two may have to be dispatched. Also put an impi on the hill to prevent them landing on high ground.

ISAND: nothing happened there. One point of note, though: the latest patch apparently HAS fixed the problem with armies only counting as one unit. We are getting credit for full military policing over there (and a single army pacified 3 resisters in RBD18 on my last turn, so I'm sure about this). As such... when the new impi is trained, just load him on in there.


In 440AD we got another leader on the Russian front.

I used him to rush university at Ulundi, in keeping with our (vague) hopes of the cultural 20k victory option.


In 420AD: Engineering popped out of the library. This means we can now cross rivers on roads and this makes a HUGE help in defending back and forth in our own territory (doesn't help the AI's, at least not while within our cultural bounds).

Um... and right after Engineering, Education also popped.

I put us on Invention with a lone scientist, since running a deficit with 1st-civ research cost, it would take 33+ turns anyway.

WE MUST FOLLOW THE AI'S on research. Whatever they all get, is what we need to research. It would be simply foolish to do anything else. Rely on leaders to nab all the wonders, and if we miss out because of a leader drought, oh freakin well. Nothing to be done about it.


I built libraries and a university and still our economy stinks. Only Russia, of our enemies, is in Monarchy. How the others are staying in Republic I have no idea but hope they collapse soon.

I built not a single horse or knight on my turn. Was just trying to retake the high ground, mainly, or replace losses, or... build infrastructure. I built a lot (relative to the average turn).

Sadly, I ran scientist out of Hlobane and the first two turns, the dang city was having a tile stepped on by the Russians and would auto-reconfigure itself. Well guess what that meant?? I was so ticked off! We lost two whole turns of research because of that (although I doubt we'll be able to wait 40 turns, we'll have to see what the AI's research next then follow them along, and NOT at 1 scientist). Better start saving money, we're about to enter financial straits. Last turn, I also added one from Isand, and that time it stuck, so... we have one turn out of 40 under our belts.

Try to keep that raiding impi alive if at all possible. Russia does not have any horse that I see, so keep the impi on the move if possible, and if forced to evade a threat or pillage... choose evade.


The Romans are coming back and have not suffered any losses lately, so that front will be the hottest (I expect) on the next turn, although the Greek Front is pretty hot now too.

I managed to meet all six of my goals, if barely. The two 1hp swords were both slaughtered immediately on counterattack after razing Kaifeng. I lost as many troops on Greek Front as all others combined, but that was also the one over which I had the least control of the high ground, and facing the most horses, which can do nasty stuff like move and pillage on same turn, etc.

China landed a pike on our south shore. I blocked him with an Impi onto high ground, who is still on the mtn there, providing some mild cover to the new town as well. He went eastward and I killed him with an elite knight as my final move.


LOTR2 - "Grueling Game" - 450AD


- Sirian


PS: HA! And that was the Short Version of the report.

 

[Sirian]

Oh One More Thing (TM)

Our third army is still unused in Z-town. Like... who the heck can afford to stick HALF our knights into one unit with one attack per turn! I needed every last horse and knight we had to attack Russian units every turn they were healthy (which was typically only every other turn, with a couple exceptions).

Oh, yes. CAREFUL AT ULUNDI. Our all-everything city currently has no defenders in it. I had to block an infiltrator from getting onto a road. Probably calls for healed knights from Z-town to come down and wipe out that annoying spear next turn.


- Sirian

 

[Toecheese3]

Got it - but won't be posting until late tomorrow, possibly even Sunday afternoon.

And yes - I irrigate grasslands as well.

 

[Arathorn]

Toecheese, I appreciate the enthusiasm, but the thing is, well, um... cpp1 is up now. You're on deck. After cpp1 gets his turns in, THEN you can play -- and almost assuredly get the benefit of your Heroic Epic.

Fight the good fight(s), cpp1. Have patience, Toecheese!

Sirian, thanks for the "brief" report, which is quite verbose compared with Jester's!!! Yes, it's brutal, but that was kinda the point....

We definitely need some infrastructure -- glad you provided a push in that direction. Lotsa conflicting tugs....

Arathorn

 

[Sirian]

Well I think this has been an interesting object lesson on why the Hitlers and Napoleons of the world are inevitably doomed. No matter how strong your nation is, taking on everybody else AT THE SAME TIME is just not a wise move. Stragically speaking, that is. I guess it also explains, in some part, the pressures the USA faces today, in trying to secure itself against a kind of threat that is very hard to pinpoint, without going postal, "overreacting", and pissing everybody else off. Heh.

- Sirian

 

[cpp1]

I was really surprised to see a msg from ToeCheese saying that he "got it" when I woke up this am.


I'll try to finish by this evening sometime.
Still digesting "Sirian's short report" at the moment.

 

[Iester]

Well, let's see, I guess I have a couple things to explain.

Swazi DID fall on my turn, about 1 turn in. I hadn't expected it to fall, but their archer got real lucky. However, the reason I didn't mention it was that it revolted back in 2 turns, and I'd forgotten it had even happened by the time my turn was over. I shoulda mentioned it, sorry 'bout that.

My front analysis was based on what happened on my turn, and a paranoid fear of legionaires. The army/elite units down south, during my turn, were FAR more than enough to beat back many times their numbers. If that wasn't the experience, I guess I just misevaluated it. The roman front, however, wasn't looking too good. I guess I just overreacted, moved a whole whack of units up there, and that was more than enough, apparently. Sirian, you're totally right about five fronts, that's what I found in my turn. The russians especially were nasty about attacking places where I couldn't concentrate my troops as well.

Sorry for abandoning the high ground situation. The russians were just walking on by, and I had too many impis, not enough swords and horses to take them on from the high ground. I had to scramble guys all over to keep things from spilling over. It seemed to have worked fairly well, except for the one spear I couldn't ever find a horsie to deal with, who pillaged our horses. That's also the reason for building some swords. I needed more attack units that could consistently deal with russian swords, which were just piling up. Horses I was keeping for seek and destroy missions of damaged units.

Sorry for the short reports. I don't ordinarily keep blow by blows at all, and just summarize my turn. But I am _really_ pressed for time these days, Real Life (tm) getting in the way at every turn. So the last thing I feel like doing, after an hour of civ, is spending more time and effort writing reports. I'll try to do a better job on that. I also don't want to slow the game down any longer than necessary; I feel like (and am) pressing the time limits to the max, so I want to get the game back in circulation, rather than take time rehashing my turn. And once the game's in someone else's hands, I have other stuff to do than write a lengthier report.

Jester

 

[cpp1]

I have to tell you this was the most intense 10 turns I've ever played of civ3. Each year was like a chess match trying to figure the optimal move based on whether a previous attack would suceed or not.

Here are the highlights. I did not found any new cities, much to my disappointment. We do have 2 settlers waiting to found cities however. Sitian gave us lots of workers so I kept them busy but did not build more. We had 4 great leaders. I rushed infrastructure with them, I think 2 universities, a marketplace, and the Forbidden Palace. I thought alot about the last choice but I think it was OK, you guys can tell me if it was weed or not.

Intombe completed a library on its own. We're 1100+ in gold and getting 50 gpt which is not great but hey, we're at war. I did not rush anything except using leaders. Our military is doing OK, but the Romans and Chinese have their knights and riders and things will get tougher.

None of the other civs completed any techs (I'm pretty sure) so we're still on engineering with 30 turns to go. I may have messed up on the scientist 1 or 2 turns.

Here's the report:

450AD Preturn: Yea, Sirian roaded that mountain outpost east of Zimbabwe! How the heck did we get a regular pike, standing just east of Zimbabwe.
I thought we had barracks in all our towns! Wow, we're paying 52 gpt for our military on top of town support.
Also only 8 knights, need to get some more of those.

Russia - monarchy, avg military, 19 cities, even tech
Iroquois - republic, weak military, 16 cities, - Education, -Engineering, -Chivalry
China - republic, weak military, 14 cities, even tech
Rome - republic, weak military, 13 cities, -Engineering
Greek - republic, weak military, 11 cities, even tech

Russia is clearly the big dog. How does these guys stay in Republic all the time?

We have more than the rest of the civs combined in culture, pretty impressive for a all-war all the time civ.

Goals:

Roman front: hold the line.
Russian front: raze Karkov and found a new city just west of Karkov per dot map.
Bapedi front: hold the line.
Southern front: found a city at river mouth near Ngome following dot map and preventing infiltration into our western jungle area.

Try to keep the Ulundi marketplace and Intombe library going.

Reinforce iron mountain since there are 2 impis facing 3 Chinese swords. Need to link up the Intombe and Zimbabwe fronts with a road across the fontier so units can commute back and forth.
Decide to switch Hlobane to settler, Zimbabwe to catapult, and Ulundi to knight.

Hate to switch Ulundi, but we need replacement knights because we're going to lose some and Ulundi can build them in 5 turns.
Move a catapult from Intombe front to Zimbabwe front.

460AD Disease strikes Bapedi. We build two impis in various cities and a harbor at Umtata. Lots of enemy troop movement. Shoot, 5 Chinese horse passed up an attack across the river at Bapedi and move into the jungle next to Bapedi. Hey, we have a pillager way over at Minsk, way to go Sirian!

Roman front: 1 Roman archer comes up to survey the situation. Cata fires, get a hit. 2nd and 3rd cata fail. 4th cata hits and archer is down to 1 hp. Our elite archer takes him out losing 1 hp.
Take out Russian archer from stack in jungle near Karkov. Wow, on my 3rd attack I get a Great Leader, Zwelithini! What to do with him? I decide to build a University at Zimbabwe after it finishes a catapult next turn.

Isand finishes an impi.

On the southern front we kill an archer, sword and wound another sword. Our army of impi loses 7 hp on the archer attack!

470AD Bapedi gets struck by disease again, down to 5 pop. Need workers to clear jungle but there's enemy troops swarming around making it defficult. Iroquois ask for peace, we say no way. Romans approaching Intombe with 7 legions but nothing to do yet. Hlobane finishes settler.

480AD Enemy attack on Bapedi gives another Great Leader, Dingane. Lost a pikeman in the same attack.
These guys just keep popping up. Zimbabwe goes into disorder because I neglected to check that it would grow to 12 this turn.
Fixed now, and university did build so I think no production was lost. 11 Enemy troops around Bapedi, big battle there this year and next. Romans have 12 legions around Intombe, big battle this year and next also.

Don't laugh but I am giving serious consideration to using the great leader for a knight. They take a long time to build with out cities. However, I will probably stick to building infrastructure with Great Leaders and units with production. Next question, what infrastructure. I'm thinking marketplace in Ulundi or Forbidden Palace in Ngome. After much debate I use the leader for the Forbidden Palace at Ngome.

Its far enough away from Zimbabwe that it can have its own core of cities and frankly, if we get to the point of being able to defend a core of cities further away than that, I think we will already be on our way to winning.

Up north the Romans are sending in vet legions.

490AD Lost sword by Bapedi to an archer. Ngome builds forbidden palace, up to 10/shield per turn there. After using 5 catas on the Romanslast turn, they get up and leave, heading back to Rome. Could it be our pillager, or just the sight of 5 catas? That's good news because we have as much as we can handle on the Russian front and protecting the iron road to Ngome. On killing an Iro archer trying to pillage the road
between Ngome and Iron City, we get ANOTHER Great Leader, Cetshwayo. This is rediculous, 3 leaders after playing 4 turns!

Lost impi taking on a Russian spear and 2 archers near Bapedi. Pillager near Hispalis looks like he turned around the whole Roman army. Unfortunately, he is on a mountain and has spotted a Roman knight next to him. Also there is a legion next to him.

Also spotted my first Chinese rider (4.3.3) who can move faster than out knights.

500AD Our impi pillager near Hispalis kills a Roman knight. Intombe finally completes its library. There are 19 legions and knights on the Roman front, this is a frightening force. Use GL to rush a university at Hlobane. Lost an impi trying to defeat a Russian archer in the Russian front.

510AD Hlobane builds university, starts on knight due in 7 turns. Chinese rider by Iron City, these guys are wicked because they can move 2 and then pillage. Entire Roman army appears to be chasing down the impi pillager who is running for his life.

Completed shortcut road between Intombe
and Bapedi, much better for defense. Killed vet Chinese rider near Ngome by 2 catapults taking 2 hp and then elite knight defeating 2 remaining hp. While defending Bapedi against Chinese horse ANOTHER great leader has appeared, Mpande. He's going to Ulundi to build a marketplace. The timing is perfect since Ulundi just finished a knight.

520AD Zimbabwe's influence expands, Ulundi complete's a marketplace, and the people add on to the palace. The Roman army has turned again and is heading back to Intombe with a huge force including at least 2 knights. A Chinese rider blows thru one of our impis on a mountain near Bapedi without taking any damage. This is bad since he now a wide choice of pillaging to do. I try to cover the iron road with pikeman where he can
reach.

A Roman knight advance within cata range so I try 5 shots and get him down to 1 hp left. It's a shame not to kill him, so I send up a vet sword that does the job with no hp lost. He's covered by an impi because there's a legion next to him. Did I mention there's no knights in Intombe? They're busy fending of the Chines and Russians in the south and executing the plan of razing Karkov and planting our own city.

530AD Now is the time for the attack on Karkov. There are 9 Russian archers next to it but they did not go in. At the last minute I call off the attack and send the attackers back. Why? First there are 9 Russian archers next to it, so my 2 knights and 2 pikes and settler will probably get slaughtered. Second, I notice that we control 6 of Karkovs 21 squares, Russia's capitol is far away, and we have many times more culture than Russia so I think the flip chance is pretty high.

540AD Not much fighting this turn. The Roman army is definitely chasing our impi pillager so keep him alive, he's worth at lease 10 units now. I am setting up for a big attack next turn on a stack of 6 Russian archers. Also keeping the high ground which is very important now.

550AD Well now, 3 Chinese riders have showed up within sight of Iron City. They can pillage 1 of the 2 connecting roads between Ngome and Iron City next turn and there's not much we can do to stop it except putting some units on the road. That reminds me, Iron City is producing a temple because it will help in defence and also put culture pressure on the 2 surrounding Chinese cities. If we have strong culture we might as well use it.

Russian stack of 6 archers moves up. 3 catas fire scoring 3 hits. Now its up to the knights. Knights did great! 3 vets promoted so all 6 knights are now elite! Another knight killed a Iro spearman. I moved 2 more elite knights down south to help counter the Chinese riders. Our impi pillager is still running for his life in Roman and Russian territory. I started another pillager out of Isand to harrass the Greeks.

Down south I only killed two Iro archers, one with a knight and one with the army. Other knights are healing or just arrived.

Notes:

The Romans are massing again north of Intombe. If our pillager survives and you put him near Roman territory they might turn around again.

The Russian archers are in the middle, still heading for Zimbabwe. If they ever stop coming, there is a settler on the mountain there with a stack of knights ready to settle 2 squares NE of the mountain. That's not quite on the dot map, but its about as close as we're going to come I think.

There is another settler in Ulundi ready to settle some city in the south.

The Romans have knights which are bad enough, but the Chinese have riders that are even worse. You might want to put a pikeman on the road square south of Ngome that the Chinese riders will probably pillage next turn. It will probably die but it may take a rider down with it.

I am disappointed that I didn't found any cities, but ToeCheese might be able to found a couple.

The Forbidden Palace is in Ngome. It was my biggest decision of the game and has saved us about 18 gpt and 10 shields/turn. If we found more cities down there I think it will probably be ok. If we get overrun, I guess we didn't need it.

I don't know how many units I killed this turn but 60 or 70 is probably a reasonable guess.

Here's the save file and the image.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr2-550ad.zip

 

[Toecheese3]

*thwap*

Completely my bad - glad I didn't start playing! Was going to start right now and thought I'd go online to check notes and see if there was anything I missed (such as cpp1's turn)

Now that cpp1 is completed - I got it

 

[Toecheese3]

Situation seems to be in very good shape. Area around Bapedi is a bit weak, but the northern front is very strong and has anyone looked at the histograph lately? guys! Goals for turn are to build two new cities and strengthen our defense accordingly.

550AD – One active pike left in Ngome (presumably for fortifying on the road to the south). Decide instead to fortify in the city.

550-560AD – What seems like a hundred Roman legions are on the move. Impi near Bapedi defeats Chinese rider, ditto a Rider at Ngome (from the recently fortified Pikeman, now elite). Chinese troops are moving to the north.

560AD – Knight dispatched to defeat a Greek horseman wandering aimlessly in our territory. Catapults soften three Russian archers in the area around Ulundi – Elite Knights sent in to clean up the mess. Settler moves into position near Kharkov with Pikemen and about 5 knights. Catapults soften a Roman pike near Intombe but no one headed to take him out due to stack of legions behind him. Catapults soften one Chinese rider near Ngome but no one headed to take out (since they are in the forest). Maybe next turn after another softening. Settler in Ulundi sent toward the south, army in Z-town also sent in that direction with the intention of (possibly) setting up an army in the new town for defense.

560-570AD – Romans are chasing Impi in their territory, some legions are moved from our area to catch him (presumably). Impi in Greek territory defeats a horseman trying to get cute. Iron City completes temple, starts pikeman.

570AD – Royal decree – Temp Iron City renamed to Khambula (Toecheese mutters something about Zulu sounding city names). And, the city is world renowned for their iron production.

Isipezi founded! Didn’t build one square to the SE due to the fact we needed a road hook up via workers (that were doing other things) for defense

Walls are immediately ordered built. Several Russian archers are moving into position near Bapedi and the Chinese are on the move near Ngome. Toecheese the Arrogant decides to unload some of the vast sums of cash filling the coffers of the First National Zulu bank Knights are rushed in Bapedi, Impis in Swazi and Tugela, and a Pikeman is rushed in Umfolozi. Treasury only down to 849gp (still +60 per turn at 20% luxury). Impi in Roman territory looking for a cave to hide in – heads to the mountains. Isand plundering Impi heads home for “repairs”. Catapults soften Russian spear near Kharkov and Iroquois archer near Ngome. Archer taken out by Knight.

570-580AD – Impi fortified in mountains defeats a Chinese rider! The word “Booyah!” is recorded in the annuls of Zulu lexicon. Russian archers on the move – Roman legions massing toward Intombe.

580AD – Knight is rushed in Intombe, treasury down to 700gp. Hlobane ordered to produce workers (1 per turn) for jungle clearing duties. Umfolozi starts aqueduct, Tugela worker, Mpondo library, Swazi temple (#2), Ulundi pikeman, Ibabanago temple, Walls rushed in Isipezi, Knight rushed in Ngome, treasury down to 468gp. Catapults soften a lone Legionary near the border, Veteran Knight (now elite) sent in to finish the job. Elite Knights sent toward Kharkov to raze the city. Greek Hoplite taken out on the road to Ngome. Chinese swordsman taken out near Bapedi.

580-590AD – Isipezi finishes walls, Temple started. Three cities complete Knights. Chinese and Romans moving in fast and furious.

590AD – Zimbabwe starts Cathedral. Impi rushed in Ibabanago due to approaching Chinese troops. Catapults work over Roman knight and pike near Intombe. Elite archer lost trying to take out wounded horse (first military loss this turn). Injured knight sent in to finish Knight. Chinese rider taken out on the road to Ngome. Two Greek horsemen sent packing near Bapedi. Isand plundering Impi sent into Chinese lands to slow their progress. Kharkov razed by Zulu knights! (Good riddance)

590AD-600AD – Impi lost in Tugela to Chinese rider. Two Chinese swordsmen defeated near Ibabanago. Romans shifting HUGE numbers of Legions into the area (at least 15). Eight Russian archers also hovering nearby.

600AD – Impi rushed in Tugela, which is reaching critical mass. We could really use a road to that city. Impi on the high ground there sent to bolster the defense. Knight takes out Hoplite in the pillage zone. More knights sent to the north to greet the Romans, probably next turn. Army arrives in Ngome, three Knights (one elite, two veteran) are loaded up to cherry pick the Chinese riders pouring into the territory. Hopefully, this will serve the double purpose of defending the city I hope to found in the next few turns. Army sent to take on Rider up to no good near Ngome, success! Moved the settler and an elite pikeman into position with the army. Hoping to settle in the next couple of turns. We really need to slow (or redirect) the focus of the Chinese armies. Looking at maybe the gold near the river mouth or the gold near Khambula. Shifted some troops around to maintain the high ground at Bapedi but still allow time for pikes to go south if needed.

600AD-610AD – Chinese rider takes out another Impi at Tugela (blah). Romans moving into range at Intombe. Since the wrecking crew has already arrived, it’s not that big of a deal. Cultural influence expands near Khambula. Palace is improved!!

610AD – Buy another Impi at Tugela – got the discount price after disbanding a worker. Again, not a big deal since Hlobane is cranking them out at one a turn. Elite knight taken out on a Greek horseman Second knight cleans up the mess. Two Russian archers in a stack of 4 taken out. Army defeats another Chinese rider near Ngome. We should have done this a long time ago but didn’t have the military available. Army is VERY effective for taking out the sometimes-pesky riders.

610-620AD – It was a good year. The pressure is completely off Tugela with the defeat of two Riders, and the pressure is nearly off Ibabanago with the defeat of a Rider and swordsman. Romans are just outside Intombe. There’s a good chance they’ll pillage the road next turn, nothing I can do about it – just too many of them. Our two remote Impis got creamed this turn, but not before taken out three assorted enemies.

620AD – Army near Ngome dispatches another Rider, starting to look like the Chinese offensive is petering out. Plenty of Iroquois archers in the area but we’re not concerned about them (yet). Took out some other troops in the area. Romans getting ready for the assault next turn. Softened a couple up with the catapults but should be enough to at least get a couple of our troops. I think there are five pikes and five Impis there right now.

620-630AD – Romans walking past Intombe. Too bad for the five or so Legionnaires; now your standing in my killing fields! Iroquois archers moving in – Chinese rider going around Khambula (to the west).

630AD – Lost elite knight trying to take out Rider, another Knight cleaned up the garbage. Roman legions drowning in a pool of blood near Intombe. Coincidence? Five legions destroyed with loss of only one Zulu swordsman.

630-640AD – Russians moving toward Bapedi. They must have lost their iron source since all they send anymore is archers. Romans are still moving deeper into our territory.

640AD – Impi sent to pillage Greek territory. Catapults are softening the Roman legions again - will they ever learn? Workers complete mine near Ulundi, pikes in 2! We could use a cathedral here if I would ever get a great leader. Maybe we’ve hit the limit?

Amatikulu founded!

I chose the mouth of the river for it’s future possibilities. I thought about both spots where the gold is but decided against it just because of location. We’re doing fairly well as far as defense is concerned, and it’s on a hill so we shouldn’t have too many problems (knock on wood).

Elite knight takes out Russian archer, AND Zwilithini appears!! (for the third time, maybe?) That’s right folks, my first Great Leader this game (about stinkin’ time). Leader is sent to Ulundi to complete that cathedral I mentioned in the previous sentence. Three more archers taken out near Bapedi.

Roman legions start to bleed some more and from our battles…

Funny how you mention something and now they’re popping up all over the place. Dingane the Fourth is sent to Ulundi to prepare the colosseum. Also a note – since we’ve built the Pentagon (I’m assuming) we can now build a fourth Army if need be. It’s giving me the option but I’m passing.

640-650AD – Roman legions took another stupid pill and keep pressing forward. Not many left of them now. Iroquois archers moving past our new city on the river, Amatikulu. The Iroquois city of Kahnawake have overthrown they’re gov’t and want to be with us! The city is near Isand…and has IRON within its borders at 100 culture! This could be a new day in the dawning of Isand!

650AD – Kahnawake set to build walls for defense – this is to priority here. Rushed the walls in Amatikulu. Leader rushes the colosseum in Ulundi – we’re currently at 35 culture per turn. Not bad for 650AD. Ulundi is about done building everything it can after the colosseum. And, it’s at 15 shields per turn (pikes in 2) if you want. Kahnawake set to starve next turn to maximize shields. Might save a bit on walls next turn. Rushed an Impi in Isand to double up the protection for our new city. Cleaned up some more Roman troops and one Chinese Rider.

Notes: We’re really progressing along now. I founded two cities and tried to shore up the defense and working parties as much as possible. I didn’t really have time to go on the offense with all the Roman troops rolling in. I did however spend some time building necessary improvements to our cities (temples, libraries, and the like) Hlobane has been cranking out tons of workers. It really helps to have the extra workers – jungles are disappearing quickly. I also spent down the treasury to 362gp but we’ve really solidified our defensive (and offensive) situations. Had to rush several troops to not lose any cities.

Suggestions: The new city near Isand needs walls next turn - suggest rushing them.

The Russian galley off the coast of Swazi just came around the bend and is probably going to drop some troops off, keep an eye on him.

We can build a fourth army if needed.

And don’t forget about our Knight army in Ngome! There’s room for a fourth member if you want to. Excellent against those stinkin’ riders.

Here’s the save file -

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr2-650ad.zip

Our newest “flipped” city

And here’s the map at the end of my turn. Booyah!

 

[Sirian]

Good going. I know how rough it is under the constant pressure with competing emergencies, so pretty much any result short of disastrous collapse on any of the fronts is fantastic.

Spending down the treasury is alarming. We're probably better off with the extra knights, and troops rushed to save cities are monies well spent, but our cash surplus is WHOLLY temporary, and should even be thought of as borrowing against the future, since we can't continue the lone scientist through any more techs, I don't think. Then again, the AI's are hurtin a lot, too, from the continuous warfare. Their losses are staggering.

But these five AI's aren't our only opponents. The rest, on the other main continent(s) have been completely free of these pressures of war with us. We've been rushing all the great wonders, so no real signal of how those AI's are doing, other than F11 infomation, which is limited. As odd as it may sound, I wish we had contact with more civs now.

Once we start research, there will be NO SURPLUS, possibly even a deficit. We need to maintain cash in the bank for emergencies, like at Tugela this turn. If we have to stop research for three turns because a knight was rushed... well, you get the idea.

If one of the unknown AI's finished Leo before we get the tech... that would be nothing short of disastrous for our cause. Just imagine if we didn't have the Great Library, Pyramids, Great Wall, etc etc.

The Forbidden Palace was probably a good move, since a less than ideal location now vs a better location in another 200 turns... is a no brainer. And our progress really is at a crawl, since we spend so much effort just fighting off the endless hordes of enemy.

The number of armies we can support is based on number of cities we control. The Pentagon allows for larger armies, not more of them.

Good job on the workers. I didn't train any on my last turn, actually. Hlobane was busy all turn building library and market.

We can't afford to overdo the distraction gambits. They don't actually hurt the enemy, nor do they eliminate enemy forces. They just ease the pressure on a given front, for a while, AT THE COST of a bigger enemy force amassing for later. Since later IS going to come, I don't think it would be wise to postpone on any single front for extended periods. Of course, if the raiders are managing to pillage a bit, and to take out some units along the way, and it's just cheap impis we are sending out for that, then it would be a good thing to keep doing periodically, on different fronts.

Once we get to rails (still a long long way off, I'm afraid) we can not only better defend our lands, but be able to concentrate our own offensive forces more effectively, too, and start pushing the enemy back back back. At least, that's the theory.


- Sirian

 

[cpp1]

Way to go ToeCheese! I was hoping you'd be able to found some cities on your turn. Also I'm glad to see you felt comfortable enough to fill in that empty army with knights. Removing 2 or 3 knight attacks per turn was something I did not even consider, they were all used on practically every turn.

I had an uneasy feeling about the distraction caused by the impi running around the back of the Romans. It's probably better to let the Roman legions dribble in as the AI builds them rather than helping them accumulate a big force to send in. I will watch that in the future.

After ToeCheese's turn, I noticed that the Greeks went from Republic to Anarchy. Are they just switching or has their government fallen? They could be the first victim of continual war, or maybe its due to something else.

It would cost us about 700-800 gold to speed up Invention very much (on top of what we're earning per turn) so we need to do everything possible to help the economy so we can spurt to get wonders or critical techs when needed. I suspect Arathorn's turn will see the other civs finish researching 2 or 3 techs.