LotR discussions

In "Beyond Sid" Bamspeedy set the AI Cost Factor to 1, so everything cost 10% and techs, for him, cost 10X. He just did the generic change. Sun Tzu's for 60 shields -- what a bargain! [Edit for clarification: The way techs work is different from everything else -- instead of a rebate on techs, the upper-level AIs actually have the techs cost more for the humans. There's significant problems either way, actually, because it used to be (early vanilla days) that the AIs got the tech rebate, too, and the tech tree flew by so fast you could hardly blink. Costs were low but the pace was incredible.]

My worry with regent tech costs and Sid-level military is that the AI will get so bogged down in its own units that it won't be able to keep up technologically and the tech race will be no fun.... I hadn't considered Gogf's idea of making two distinct units before, though, so that's an interesting idea. We'd have to be sure to give the AI at least its Sid-level support for free units. Something to think about. Twould almost assuredly be a fair bit easier than regular Sid, though. Plus, honestly, facing the hordes in my SAW game has been feeding that particular bug....

To make it fair, we could do either oscillating or non-oscillating war variants on Sid with cheaper techs....

No armies AW ?= AW pre-C3C...pretty close but a tiny bit more challenging due to the lack of ability to rush great wonders with the MGLs, but T-hawk makes a very good point here.

True Feudalists? I considered that, but the obvious solution is just extreme ICS and that's not a place I want to go -- either in a game or in terms of legislating to prevent. So that's definitely out. Fascism appears to me to be a fair bit away from Monarchy or Despotism. Extremely fast workers might change the need for workers early. Never being able to cash-rush is significantly different. Corruption is less but a core is still needed (unlike Communism). Seems fairly significantly different to me....

Thanks for the discussion. It's helping me improve/consider some different ideas. I want to control the "tipping point" as long as possible -- make the game CLOSE as long as possible. The immunity of armies is one of the big problems with controlling the tipping point in AW games, though, and I'm not sure how giving the AI more units will help with that. Palace produces an army every 8 turns, so the AI will have armies to hopefully fill? Dunno.

Arathorn
 
Hmm. To have the tipping point last for a serious length of time requires the player to be losing a significant number of units. Else, the player's strength just keeps increasing while the AIs' doesn't.

I think the reason LotR13 didn't have much of a tipping point was the resource pillaging. Even zillions of longbows and spearmen can be taken care of by very few knights and cavalry. To keep the AIs a serious threat for longer would require them to be building knights and cavalry all the way. And I think that might mean no pillaging, period.

I wouldn't have any confidence in the AIs' ability to manage armies even if you gave them one every turn from the palace. They'd probably put a single spear in each army or something equally dumb. :crazyeye:

Good points about the Fascist game. I'm still not really interested, but it sounds interesting to try anyway. Maybe do that as a lightweight Emperor-or-so game alongside a serious AW game? :)
 
Thanks for the PM, Arathorn. :) Though looking over your variants, I'm not sure my meager skills are yet ready for the challenge. Sid I heven't even tried yet, and I also haven't found my way into an AW game.

In "Beyond Sid" Bamspeedy set the AI Cost Factor to 1, so everything cost 10% and techs, for him, cost 10X.
Click to expand...

So if I understand this right, the discount or penalties on tech cost are actually assessed to the player and don't affect the Ai, regardless of level, right? I that's true, then is there a way to use a dual difficulty, so to speak? Put the AI's production advantage on Sid, and put the player's tech penalty at Emporer or so? (I've never played with the editor, so I have no idea if it's possible)
 
I so wish the game decoupled the AI cost advantage for production and tech. What we need for a really great AW game is a massive AI production advantage, but tech costs kept in normal line. Anyone think of a way to do that? The Regent game might be a step in that direction.
Click to expand...
To boost production without tech, give the AI the ability to build a cost 1 factory style improvement available with a preassigned "era none" tech. To prevent the human from capturing these improvements they could generate 1 culture per turn and therefore be autodestroyed upon capture (of course, this would give the AI a big cultural advantage as well).

Actually, having recently acquired a new PC, I've been quietly working on a similar scenario, namely putting a single Sid level AI opponent in a normal Deity or Emperor game using unique bonuses (unique improvements, governments, units, etc). I am just about finished balancing the scenario and was planning to start a SG after returning from a conference a week from now, but if any of you are interested in using it for an earlier SG... ;)
 
EDIT: Regarding which patch to use, I have a slight preference for 1.15 but would also play under 1.22 if someone could direct me to a posr explaining how to make a dual-install.
Click to expand...

I don't have a dual install but rather uninstall 1.22 and 1.15 then reinstall 1.15.

When I need 1.22 I just patch up to 1.22, rinse and repeat. Whole process takes about 5 mins on my dog of a machine.

Hotrod
 
On dual installs:

(1) Install Civ3 Vanilla, 1.29f, and Conquests into your 1.15 directory.
(2) Create your 1.22 directory and copy everything from your 1.15 directory there.
(3) Install 1.12 and 1.15 (I think you need both) into your 1.15 directory (the patches allow you to install into a specified directory).
(4) Install 1.22 into your 1.22 directory.
(5) Create desktop shortcuts for each version of Conquests.

That should do it...
 
I find the RAW game interesting. The two Sid games also caught my attention. Zwingli's generous offer to let us use his new scenario is intriguing, as well. I have patched to 1.22 and don't have much interest in going through the gyrations necessary to use 1.15.
 
I don't know what the LotR series will hold for Civ5. In Civ3, this series was one of the more challenging and daring series. For Civ4, well, I think we had a number of interesting games, but I didn't get into Civ4 nearly like I did Civ3. I still had some fun, though. Civ5 promises to be different again. I know little of it (been trying to avoid spoilers), except that it's coming out VERY soon.

I do want to get a jump on things, however, so I'm putting this announcement in my old Civ4 (and probably even Civ3) SG threads, so that people I've gamed with before might notice and think about joining in the fun.

All games in the LotR series will be hosted by me, Arathorn. I generally run 0-2 games at a time. Anyone is welcome to sign up. Most games fill first come, first served, but it all depends on the game (the first LotR Civ5 game, for example, will be different in that regard). Please use this thread for sign-ups and/or rules questions before the game(s) begin. I will put this message into the Civ5 SG forum once it opens! :D

General rules -- maximal ethics in play at all times. Do the right thing at the right time. Have fun. Do your best. Be courteous. Etc. etc. etc. We play whatever start we get nearly every time, even if it looks like a really bad start. Only if the variant assumes something (like early contact/fighting) will I restart. Isolated? Crunched? Bad land? We deal with it. I also highly encourage discussions and discourse and planning and thoughts and justifications and LONG reports, preferably with semi-significant detail. I also run a 24/72 system (instead of most people's 24/48) -- that is, 24 hours to claim, 72 to play and report. As long as you're there and communicating, I'm quite fine if it takes a little longer to play and report.

The first Civ5 game will be something very similar to this....

LotR28 -- Random Rollicking for Returning Refugees
Version: Civ5 out-of-the-box
Civ: Random
Difficulty: One level above the "middle"/"even" level
Win condition: Anything goes
Variant(s): NONE
Participants: For the first LotR Civ5 game, priority seating will be given based on the number of previous LotR games played in. Sign-up time will break ties. YOU MUST HAVE THE GAME IN HAND BEFORE SIGNING UP!!! Also, no beta-testers allowed. This rule is on the honor system, but all of us in LotR28 should be playing the game with very few preconceptions (just what we've gained from games on our own). Sign-ups will close September 24th at 11:59 p.m. CDT, if I have enough signed-up at that point. Sign-ups begin now, in any of the LotR threads. All other Civ5 games must be signed up for in the Civ5 thread (once it exists).
Start Date: September 25 (I hope)
Sign ups so far: None

Hope to see everybody around!
Arathorn
 
Hi Arathorn,

Pre ordered the game and would be glad to join. Let's hope Civ 5 is giving us the fun C3C did.

Unfortunately, like the rest of the world, will be getting the game on 24th only.
 
Does this mean Lord Of the Ring is part of V or does it stand for something else?
 
ThERat, glad to see you. Hope you will be able to sign up for real in less than a week.

vmxa, LotR is just the name of my series of SGs. Named in honor of _Lord of the Rings_ but not indicative of any official/cool mods or anything.

Arathorn
 
Arathorn, your sign up conditions are a little biased ;)

Your first game might end up with an All-American team :(
 
Arathorn said:
I don't know what the LotR series will hold for Civ5. In Civ3, this series was one of the more challenging and daring series. For Civ4, well, I think we had a number of interesting games, but I didn't get into Civ4 nearly like I did Civ3. I still had some fun, though. Civ5 promises to be different again. I know little of it (been trying to avoid spoilers), except that it's coming out VERY soon.
Click to expand...
Holy 6 year necro, Batman! :)
 
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