LotR10: Scouting Sid

Excellent point mad-bax, we could then chop the forest right by Amsterdam so it wont take production tiles away from Rotterdam.
However the timing needs to be good so we dont lose a turn on the settler from Amsterdam of course.

Reagan the only point I dont agree with you is :
Adding another ten shields right now won't help because we are still 35 shields from completing the granary
Click to expand...
So many shields to completion is precisely why chops are required :)
Gothmog is alos right that a whip can be an even better alternative, I'd need to see the save to check that for sure :D
 
I'm generally against whips so close to the capital. They "feel" like a loser to me. I've tried to do the math a few times and it gets very confusing very rapidly, with far too many "what if"s for me to feel comfortable answering too definitively.

I definitely like the chop. That would get a big priority from me -- using the wonder in Amsterdam trick if it'll work (and if we have one available). But I'm not it really matters TOO much which forest we chop.

Another worker out of Amsterdam? Hmm...Amsterdam is food-limited, not shield limited, so I like settlers and units (MP) out of there for the time being. But, we can never have too many workers..... <Shrug> And getting Rotterdam up to speed might be the winner there, too.

Summing up, I'd chop, wouldn't whip, and wouldn't worker out of Amsterdam (yet). The latter two are very close. And even on deity, it wouldn't really matter, because we'd win easily either way. I love that Sid is making us consider so fine differences.....

Arathorn
 
/lurker de-cloaking/

This is going to be one tough puppy

/lurker cloak re-engaged/
 
One reason why I advocate the whip in this circumstance is that we want to be on a 6-4 cycle with growth at Rotterdam as a settler factory. At this rate our city will be at roughly size 8 before we build our granary (less with chops, I can't see how many bonus grass or corruption we have atm). Then we need to get another 30 shields for our first settler. Also, if we use the whip and get the granary faster, then growth will be doubled for that additional amount of time. If it's 10 turns faster, that becomes at least two growth cycles and we come out ahead in terms of population anyway.
Anyway it is an alternative to having to work forest squares just to make up some shields, if it were just me I'd do a whip asap and a chop.
 
A few thoughts, as well as a rough dotmap.

Forget the chop or the whip. Fastest that you can get the chop done while letting the closest worker complete his mine (6 turns) is 12 turns. Granery can be put online in 9 turns with the following sequence.

Switch Rotterdam to work a forest instead of the non-roaded grass (+4fpt, 2spt) for one turn. Then work both forests for two turns to get +3fpt, 4spt and growth (this slows growth by one turn to get an extra 7 shields). Then work both forests and the roaded grass for three more turns (+3fpt, 4spt), at which point the mine completes on the grass pushing production to 5spt). The granery completes three turns later, with the last turn switching off one of the forests to a grassland, since only 3 shields are needed. Town will be at size 5 with 19 food in the box-- ready to grow to size 6 and start cranking settlers. The wasted shields are the 3rd and the 7th shield, so we'll not be getting above 5spt net for a bit.

BTW, Arathorn, you are up since Gothmog has not gotten the game.

As far a dotmapping.



I feel pretty good about the red and dark blue dots (red keeps the tundra down to 4 total, and blue will use a harbor for food, since it will be a pain to get water to those plains tiles). The pink dot could be moved two tiles NW--which would put it on a hill next to the river--allowing irrigation to pass to the west (unless things have changed since PTW). The western grey dot is just there to get water to the wheat. If you move the pink dot, then I would move the green dot SW to the coast.

Ugh--that's enough micromanagement for me today--I don't see how some people do this so easily (and I am no slouch in math).
 
GM, when do you expect to get your copy of C3C? I'd rather not skip more people than I have to. I won't be playing until tomorrow (Saturday) afternoon, anyway. Let me know by then, please, if you do happen to see this.

Arathorn
 
Looks like things are going decently for this Sid attempt. Good luck with the rest of it, I will be watching.

Little question: I noticed that one of the screenshots included graphic changes (perhaps Snoopy's), but I have not been able to use such graphics in Conquests (if you do, it plays as a PTW game). How do you use the good graphics for a Conquests game? Also, I noticed that the game started with the default graphics but changed midway through. How do you change like that? Sorry for the somewhat off-topic questions, but I wanted to make sure to ask somebody who knew what was going on. Thanks in advance, guys. :goodjob:
 
Welcome back Charis. I noticed over at RBCiv that the games were filling up quickly--I suspect I will be giving them a miss--have to keep to my word on only 2 SGs at a time.

No surprise that Arathorn wanted to jump right in--he of the AMIMVs. :p We DO have a good crowd here (even without the :hammer: )--at least enough to keep me mostly out of trouble. :p

Yaype--I think Reagan is the one who has figured the graphics thing out--I was off to go do that this afternoon. As far as the different screenshots--if you have all of your default games playing with a different graphics pack, then a normal (non-scenerio or modded) game will always show up on your machine with that pack, even if others are not playing with that graphics pack. It looks like Snoopy's, but Reagan can say for sure.
 
lurker's comment: Yaype - All my default games go to snoppy's. It is the modpack in way down in the CivIII art folder. If you want a scenario or mod to use a specific pack like water colors, or snow etc then you have to point to that ART folder in your scenario setup. I am by no means a mod expert but have been using snoopy for all my conquest starts so far.

[/lurk]

hotrod
 
I'm certainly no expert at graphics mods, so all I can do is tell you what I'm using and how I got there. After backing up the original files, I installed Snoopy's mod pack onto the default graphics files. I also installed modded files for bonus grassland tiles (they have little rocks and trees on them now), barb camps (larger pics), goody huts (structures rather than mushroom looking things), and resources/luxuries (there is a mod that has little beige discs with the initial of the resource/luxury, which makes them much easier to spot). Unfortunately, Conquests' addition of new resources has rendered the "easy-to-spot" graphics unusable. I hope someone will be so kind as to create a new file for Conquests so the silver, saltpeter, coal, and other resources that are sometimes difficult to see can be easier to find.

When you play an epic game of PTW or Conquests and post a screenshot from the game, the picture will use your default graphics -- not those from another player on your team. An exception to this is when you use a different terrain set altogether, like when we played the MOW game using the watercolor terrain. In that case, I presume, one would have to modify those particular files in order to have something other than the default. I hope this has been helpful.

Oh yeah -- I looked for a modified resources file already but didn't find one, so I posted a request in the C&C forum. If I simply overlooked the file, I'd appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction.
 
Re: Bam-Bam's dotmap -- First, thanks for putting that together, BB. It takes a lot of effort to think those things through. My three main questions are: (1) is yellow dot on a river? It doesn't appear to be. Moving it one square south will put it on a river and still on the coast; (2) shouldn't green dot be moved so it's on the coast? I hate having water tiles that can't be maximized because harbors and other improvements can't be built in a land-locked square; and (3) where are we going to put the FP? Building it in Utrecht and then jumping the palace with a leader could be a good plan.
 
More time and trouble.... We're way behind in tech, but there's a lot of land for the grabbing, if we can get there.

(0) 1750 -- Rotterdam almost as suggested, but I work the forest the first two turns and then the grass the third, so that it will auto-pick the forest when it grows and we can squeeze an extra two shields out of the deal.

(I) Finish Writing and start Lit. at min_sci. The AIs will sometimes ignore optional techs...and if it takes us 50 turns to get there...who cares?

(1) 1725 BC -- what's map making cost @ 3rd? I dunno, but we can't afford it. Check it out.



(2) 1700 - Spain picked up MM, too. We *could* buy it by removing our lux and science and paying all our gold and gpt, but I don't think that's quite wise. Portugal still doesn't have it and we MIGHT be able to broker successfully, but I want a bit of extra cash around to broker. Hope it doesn't come back to bite me.

Oh, and Rotterdam micro this turn. Looking good up there.

(2) 1675 - I gotta do it. Brokering options will be few and far between, I fear, so I'm gonna take this one while I can, even though it almost kills us financially. Science to zero and then....

17 gpt and 388 gold to Hittites for Map Making.
Map Making, 2 gpt, our last 24 gold to Portugal for Wheel, Warrior Code, and Ceremonial Burial.
And we're at 0 gpt and 0 gold. Kindof a 4fer, though, so I think it was worth it. Hope others agree.
We're down 4 visible techs to all 4 AIs -- the same 4 in all case.

(I) Settler out of Amsterdam.

(4) 1650 -- The pop loss from the Amsterdam settler has us at -1 gpt and 0 gold. I do NOT want to lose troops, so I have to lower the lux tax and make do with a taxman in Rotterdam for one turn. Another MP is on his way there, though, so it should only be this turn. I'm not sure it will matter in the long run.

(5) 1625 - Second MP in Rotterdam, taxman back to work. At +1 gpt now.

(6) 1600 - Ulbrecht has grown and needs a specialist until an MP arrives. He gets a taxman for a bit, too.

(7) 1575 - Rottderdam completes its granary and begins a settler -- growth and settler to pop at the same time. I think a 5/5/3/3/4 food pattern here might be required -- a 5-turn settler factory. I think that's the only way to get enough shields in time. Will need VERY close attention.

(8) 1600 - Utrecht taxman back to work.

(9) 1575 - Meet Russia. They're up the same 4 as the others.

(10) 1500 - Meet Mongols. They're up the 4 we've been done forever, but now Hittites and Ottomans have Philosophy visible, too, so we're down 5 visible techs to those two. With -1 gpt (to keep Rotterdam happy) and 10 gold, though, I don't think we can purchase it! ;)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr10-1500bc.zip

We now have two pretty good settler factories (Amsterdam and Rotterdam) going. I built two settlers but founded no cities on my turns. I sent one south to the dark blue dot on the forest and one is headed west to be near the tundra. Those two dots I felt very comfortable with, but I couldn't reach either during my turns.

We only have one more civ to find. They about have to be sharing our landmass, in the southern part, I would think. Getting a city to the choke would actually be my next priority. The Russians will be filling in the west soon, though, so be wary.

Jumping our palace with a leader? Is the palace an SGL or an MGL item? We might get a few of the latter, but I imagine the former will be few and far between (like NONE!).

For now, we've still gotta be in mega-expansion mode. Ulbrecht as military producer seems like a good plan for now. Keep the cities flowing.

Arathorn
 
Jumping our palace with a leader? Is the palace an SGL or an MGL item? We might get a few of the latter, but I imagine the former will be few and far between (like NONE!).
Click to expand...

I don't believe the palace is a wonder at all. I think MGLs are precluded from completing great wonders (but can still build small wonders and rush other improvements).
 
Pre-turn

All looks good, except for our treasury and economy. No changes.

IT Russians start lighthouse.

1475 BC (1)

Settler movement.

IT Spain demands our 8g. We are at -2gpt, so will lose something. I cannot risk losing any of the graneries, so I tell Isabella to stick it. She declares.

1450 BC (2)

Groningen founded on coast by wines. Starts on warrior. Amsterdam gets to size 4, so the economic bleeding stops. Able to drop lux to 10% with the war happiness from Spain declaring, now we have a whopping +2gpt.

1425 BC (3)

zzz

IT Ottomans complete the lighthouse, and Statue of Zeus. All kinds of cascading, but no completions.

1400 BC (4)

Rotterdam settler-settler. Lux to 0%. The Hague warrior--granery. This city has enough 2 food tiles to warrent the granery before either a harbor (food from sea) or temple (opening more sea tiles for food). I sent one of the inherited settlers south first, instead of to the red dot, so that there would be 3 cities founded by the end of my turns.

1375 BC (5)

Meet the Aztecs south of Russia. They are up BW, masonry, myst, philosophy, and HBR. This is the same as the Ottomans, Russians, and Hittites. Portugal and the Mongols do not have Philosophy, and we are at war with Spain.

IT The Russians land a settler pair on our Island.

1350 BC (6)

Utrecht rax-->archer.

1325 BC (7)

Amsterdam settler-->rax. Eindhoven founded on red dot-->warrior. Might be worth a worker first, since we have a military only city going. Arnhem founded two tiles NW of my pink dot. It's on the river, and should be able to take water over to the west. Starts on worker (vetoable--I chose this because its at +3fpt), Settler from Amsterdam is heading west for the yellow dot--which should be moved 1 tile south as Reagan suggested. The next settler from Rotterdam should head south to the grey dot chokepoint. Lux @10% with Rotterdam growth to 6.

1300 BC (8)

The Russians founded their city--it is a real crappy location, so there MUST be some resource there. :rolleyes:

1275 BC (9)

zzz.

1250 BC (10)

Rotterdam settler-->settler. It is now at size 4, growing next turn. The best we can get is 5 shields as it grows. (I can set it up to try to pick the forest, but I am sure it will not--picing one of the irrigated wines). We cannot get +5fpt here running how we are--maybe worth popping a worker and getting on a true five turn run with the settler popping when the town grows from 5-->6. Goodness knows we need workers. Settler should head south to the choke. I have a scientist in Utrecht until we get it connected to the wines network.

We are screwed on natural luxuries--only wines. Folks are starting to settler the southern end way below the choke.



Western settler is heading to the red dot. Settler just finished out of Rotterdam is heading to the blue dot. Next settler should head to the green dot, then the next two should go one to the wheat, one to push the choke further south.

Sid's Viscious

Good luck Speaker! You should get a chance to make our next set of trades!
 
All right, good expansion and a nice MM analysis by Bam-Bam (on the 7th).

The tech situation reminds me of the earliest versions of CivIII, wasn't uncommon to be a half an age behind back then.

We have writing now, do all the other AI's have contact with each other? I am wondering what kind of priority they put on the new early ship unit.

My copy is being shipped to me as we speak (it left the warehouse on friday), but as I live off the beaten path it will be mid next week before I get it I am sure. Sorry about that, when I ordered it I didn't consider Fed Ex :p, I guess I just wasn't thinking. Hopefully I can get a turn in before I am gone for a week on buisness (16th - 22nd).
 
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