LotR10: Scouting Sid
- Thread starter Arathorn
- Start date
IT- Spain requires a city for peace. This might be a long "phony" war. Egads, we only have 3 workers for our entire Civ and we are not even Industrious...This will not do at all.
1225BC (1): Russians have settled their first city on "our" land.
IT- Spain signs Aztecs to an alliance against us. Umm, let's hope we don't get a dogpile here...
1200BC(2): Nothing Much.
IT- Mongols join in the fun, signing a MA with the Aztecs against us.
1175BC (3): Found Maastricht on the red dot.
1150BC (4): It takes all of our treasury, 26gpt and 62gold to buy Code of Laws, from Portugal. Russia offers Masonry and Mysticism, but instead I take Bronze Working, Masonry, and 45 gold (since we have a non-existant treasury). Code of Laws then goes to the Hittites with 40 gold for Iron Working.
The net is a 4-fer 1 (clearly I can't add), 2 of which are important military techs, which we may need in the near future. We have iron next to Arnhem.
Rotterdam grows and requires a taxman to stay happy. We cannot afford the lux tax.
IT- Russia moves about 35 troops into Krasnoyarsk. Aztec jag dies on our warrior in the southern jungle, across a river. Ottomans start Sun Tzu, so the AI is into the Middle Ages. We're 7 techs short at the moment.
1125BC (5): Amsterdam starts a harbor (due in 4) because I can't bare to waste that many shields building a spearman (currently making 9spt)and so we can trade our excess wines to Russia, which should net us something nice. Bingo, many civs, including Russia, have no iron connected. Arnhem requires a taxman to stay happy.
1100BC (6): Nothing much.
1075BC (7): With no available scientist, Literature research ceases for the moment.
1050BC (8): Nothing much.
1025BC (9): Amsterdam builds Harbor. Found Haarlem on the blue dot. Ugh, it looks like our trade route with Russia is being held up by a single square of fog. We should have that cleared up and be able to trade our iron to Russia in the next 8 turns. We can trade our Wines to the Hittites (for Mysticism) and Portugese (for 70 gold), but I'm not so sure about that trade route and if we lose our rep, we're toast. Our continent is attached to theirs via coast in the south, but with the Aztecs and Spain founding cities down there, one coastal city in the right place and we're screwed.
IT- Portugese join in the dogpile. I stand by my decision to not trade them wines.
1000BC (10): Finally some good news. By declaring on us, Portugal forfeits the gpt payments we were giving her. We are back at 30gpt. Unfortunately we are at war with 4 Sid civs. Maastricht requires a scientist for peace, so Literature is back in action. Russia has now founded 4 cities on our half of the land. The moving warrior near Amsterdam and the Hague is moving toward Maastricht and should probably clear out that fog. The settler is heading toward green dot.
Conclusion- Uh, good luck.
Sid Dogpile
1225BC (1): Russians have settled their first city on "our" land.
IT- Spain signs Aztecs to an alliance against us. Umm, let's hope we don't get a dogpile here...
1200BC(2): Nothing Much.
IT- Mongols join in the fun, signing a MA with the Aztecs against us.
1175BC (3): Found Maastricht on the red dot.
1150BC (4): It takes all of our treasury, 26gpt and 62gold to buy Code of Laws, from Portugal. Russia offers Masonry and Mysticism, but instead I take Bronze Working, Masonry, and 45 gold (since we have a non-existant treasury). Code of Laws then goes to the Hittites with 40 gold for Iron Working.
The net is a 4-fer 1 (clearly I can't add), 2 of which are important military techs, which we may need in the near future. We have iron next to Arnhem.
Rotterdam grows and requires a taxman to stay happy. We cannot afford the lux tax.
IT- Russia moves about 35 troops into Krasnoyarsk. Aztec jag dies on our warrior in the southern jungle, across a river. Ottomans start Sun Tzu, so the AI is into the Middle Ages. We're 7 techs short at the moment.
1125BC (5): Amsterdam starts a harbor (due in 4) because I can't bare to waste that many shields building a spearman (currently making 9spt)and so we can trade our excess wines to Russia, which should net us something nice. Bingo, many civs, including Russia, have no iron connected. Arnhem requires a taxman to stay happy.
1100BC (6): Nothing much.
1075BC (7): With no available scientist, Literature research ceases for the moment.
1050BC (8): Nothing much.
1025BC (9): Amsterdam builds Harbor. Found Haarlem on the blue dot. Ugh, it looks like our trade route with Russia is being held up by a single square of fog. We should have that cleared up and be able to trade our iron to Russia in the next 8 turns. We can trade our Wines to the Hittites (for Mysticism) and Portugese (for 70 gold), but I'm not so sure about that trade route and if we lose our rep, we're toast. Our continent is attached to theirs via coast in the south, but with the Aztecs and Spain founding cities down there, one coastal city in the right place and we're screwed.
IT- Portugese join in the dogpile. I stand by my decision to not trade them wines.
1000BC (10): Finally some good news. By declaring on us, Portugal forfeits the gpt payments we were giving her. We are back at 30gpt. Unfortunately we are at war with 4 Sid civs. Maastricht requires a scientist for peace, so Literature is back in action. Russia has now founded 4 cities on our half of the land. The moving warrior near Amsterdam and the Hague is moving toward Maastricht and should probably clear out that fog. The settler is heading toward green dot.
Conclusion- Uh, good luck.
Sid Dogpile
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
I bet that was fun, Speaker. 
A dogpile at this stage is not too bad--we just need to find a way to get the Aztecs (and possibly Portugal) out of the pile, since they DO have an opportunity to hurt us. Too bad we aren't getting reverse WW from the dogpilers, like we are from Spain. That would sure help our happiness problems. The iron trade to Russia sounds like a must do.
A dogpile at this stage is not too bad--we just need to find a way to get the Aztecs (and possibly Portugal) out of the pile, since they DO have an opportunity to hurt us. Too bad we aren't getting reverse WW from the dogpilers, like we are from Spain. That would sure help our happiness problems. The iron trade to Russia sounds like a must do.I'm not sure how we are going to get out of the pile, short of giving away cities (which we obviously can't do) or 10+ gpt each. And with 4 of the 7 rivals at war with us, that doesn't leave much in the way of (already-meager) trading opportunities.Originally posted by Bam-Bam
I bet that was fun, Speaker.
Reagan -- UP
Gothmog -- ON DECK
Skyfish -- waiting impatiently
No hurry, guys. Best hope for Skyfish is Friday, but realistic isn't until Monday, the 17th, so Reagan and Gothmog can take a bit of time to play slowly, carefully, and beat up on those Sid opponents! OK, OK...maybe just try to make peace a bit cheaper -- swords will help that. Plus, if they'll talk to us, we can hopefully get to the point where we can buy peace with gold if we're truly desperate.
Wines to Russia should be safe. That route goes north around our lands and will probably not be cut, except by Russian action. A little impetus to not have them join the dogpile would be good (although a fairly heft gpt payment didn't seem to deter Portugal).
I know from first-hand experience that Sid AI's can be fought successfully. I got sneak-attacked in a Sid OCC I was trying and managed to raze two cities in response (in Middle Ages, with spears, longbows, and trebuchets), but they were terminally corrupt AI cities on an island far from home. We'll need to be alert, but I think we can handle this for a while, if we're smart about it. Remember even the most corrupt AI city can build a spear in 8 turns.
Nice turns, Speaker. The 4-fer (whatdya mean, 3-fer? We got 4 techs out of that) was nice, especially since we somehow, sorta, lucked into getting out of the payments. The tech situation is actually better than I was fearing.
Without looking at the save, I'm thinking workers and unit will be the order of the day. But we'll need a few more cities. My goal remains to have enough cities to build the FP by the end of the landgrab.
Good luck and good hunting!
Arathorn
Gothmog -- ON DECK
Skyfish -- waiting impatiently
No hurry, guys. Best hope for Skyfish is Friday, but realistic isn't until Monday, the 17th, so Reagan and Gothmog can take a bit of time to play slowly, carefully, and beat up on those Sid opponents! OK, OK...maybe just try to make peace a bit cheaper -- swords will help that. Plus, if they'll talk to us, we can hopefully get to the point where we can buy peace with gold if we're truly desperate.
Wines to Russia should be safe. That route goes north around our lands and will probably not be cut, except by Russian action. A little impetus to not have them join the dogpile would be good (although a fairly heft gpt payment didn't seem to deter Portugal).
I know from first-hand experience that Sid AI's can be fought successfully. I got sneak-attacked in a Sid OCC I was trying and managed to raze two cities in response (in Middle Ages, with spears, longbows, and trebuchets), but they were terminally corrupt AI cities on an island far from home. We'll need to be alert, but I think we can handle this for a while, if we're smart about it. Remember even the most corrupt AI city can build a spear in 8 turns.
Nice turns, Speaker. The 4-fer (whatdya mean, 3-fer? We got 4 techs out of that) was nice, especially since we somehow, sorta, lucked into getting out of the payments. The tech situation is actually better than I was fearing.
Without looking at the save, I'm thinking workers and unit will be the order of the day. But we'll need a few more cities. My goal remains to have enough cities to build the FP by the end of the landgrab.
Good luck and good hunting!
Arathorn
workers, units, more cities... would you like tea with that?
Yes, I do want tea with that! Thanks for asking! With just the slightest bit of honey added, please. 
Yes, 'pults would be nice...but impossible without Mathematics, which we don't have yet (it's after Masonry, right? And we just acquired that, so...). Archers with a defensive bombard only are actually pretty useful in that role, letting spears (or swords, for that matter, I've just been iron-deprived in my solo games, so it's not been an issue) survive sword attacks much more often, when stacked. Something to consider.
GM -- when are you getting the game? You gonna be able to take your turn in a couple days? You're USA located, right?
I'm torn on using gpt to buy more techs. On the one hand, we might get out of the payments again (or stop another opponent). On the other, being able to buy peace for gpt might be required in the near future and we will need funds on hand to do that! On balance, if a good brokering opportunity comes up, we'll probably need to do it -- just for techs sake.
I do recommend wines to Russia for whatever tech/gold/stuff we can get. The route is unlikely to be broken (unless we lose a harbor city...) and the gain should be substantial.
As for rep, it's actually less important, IMO, than at Deity. With techs cheaper to steal than to buy starting early in the Middle Ages (from my experiences in Sid to date) (and with which tech dependent on the exact chance of success in a steal), paying for techs becomes less interesting than stealing, early and often, to get 2fers and morefers.
Arathorn
Yes, 'pults would be nice...but impossible without Mathematics, which we don't have yet (it's after Masonry, right? And we just acquired that, so...). Archers with a defensive bombard only are actually pretty useful in that role, letting spears (or swords, for that matter, I've just been iron-deprived in my solo games, so it's not been an issue) survive sword attacks much more often, when stacked. Something to consider.
GM -- when are you getting the game? You gonna be able to take your turn in a couple days? You're USA located, right?
I'm torn on using gpt to buy more techs. On the one hand, we might get out of the payments again (or stop another opponent). On the other, being able to buy peace for gpt might be required in the near future and we will need funds on hand to do that! On balance, if a good brokering opportunity comes up, we'll probably need to do it -- just for techs sake.
I do recommend wines to Russia for whatever tech/gold/stuff we can get. The route is unlikely to be broken (unless we lose a harbor city...) and the gain should be substantial.
As for rep, it's actually less important, IMO, than at Deity. With techs cheaper to steal than to buy starting early in the Middle Ages (from my experiences in Sid to date) (and with which tech dependent on the exact chance of success in a steal), paying for techs becomes less interesting than stealing, early and often, to get 2fers and morefers.
Arathorn
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
I am indeed in the US, but only just 
- outside of Santa Fe, NM.
I just checked my tracking number and the game arrived at the USPS here in Santa Fe yesterday at 1pm. I didn't get it yesterday because this is Santa Fe! If it weren't a federal holiday I should have gotten it today, as it is I am hoping for tomorrow. Assuming I don't get mañana'ed.
I have been really busy with work lately (preparing for my trip next week, and my other one in December), I worked all day Sunday. So I haven't had time to really read up on Conquests. I have no idea what the new tech tree looks like, nor did I know about the defensive bombard. Rest assured that I will take some time to at least RTFM before I play. When I am away from home I'll have lots of time to catch up while in the hotel at night.
- outside of Santa Fe, NM.I just checked my tracking number and the game arrived at the USPS here in Santa Fe yesterday at 1pm. I didn't get it yesterday because this is Santa Fe! If it weren't a federal holiday I should have gotten it today, as it is I am hoping for tomorrow. Assuming I don't get mañana'ed.
I have been really busy with work lately (preparing for my trip next week, and my other one in December), I worked all day Sunday. So I haven't had time to really read up on Conquests. I have no idea what the new tech tree looks like, nor did I know about the defensive bombard. Rest assured that I will take some time to at least RTFM before I play. When I am away from home I'll have lots of time to catch up while in the hotel at night.
GM, check this out, I found that little document extremely informative !
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/c3cref2.zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/c3cref2.zip
(0) 1000 Look at all those pouty faces on the diplo screen! Wines+2gpt to Hittites for Philosophy+8gp. *Gasp* Someones polite?! Say it aint so! I know we have nine turns invested in it, but even a monopoly on Lit likely wont get us Republic, so I start a min sci run on that important tech. Only pre-turn MM tweak is to work a forest tile in Utrecht. This slows growth but gets us a warrior in two turns rather than six. I did a double take when I saw not one, but two, empty cities right next to two AI cities. 
(1) 975 - The Ottomans joined the dogpile through an alliance with Spain. Amsterdam: spear->spear. Our palace gets spruced up a bit. A Russian warrior starts towards undefended Maastricht. Swap to spear and
(2) 950 Utrecht: warrior->warrior. Groningen: warrior->spear. Maastricht: spear->worker. Lux tax to 10%.
(3) 925 Our valiant little boat dies under a hail of Mongol arrows. Amsterdam continues to churn out spears. Groningen whips a spear. Literature is in play already.
(4) 900 Now Russia joins the party by allying with the Ottomans. Ugh. Rotterdam: settler->settler. Hague: granary->worker. Groningen: spear->worker. Haarlems archer takes out an Aztec warrior.
(5) 875 Can you say 100% participation? The Ottos enlist the Hittites in their evil crusade against our pacifist nation.
Iron comes online and Amsterdam swaps to sword training (every three turns), while Utrecht does the same. Those blights on our western landscape are in trouble now! 
(1) 975 - The Ottomans joined the dogpile through an alliance with Spain. Amsterdam: spear->spear. Our palace gets spruced up a bit. A Russian warrior starts towards undefended Maastricht. Swap to spear and
(2) 950 Utrecht: warrior->warrior. Groningen: warrior->spear. Maastricht: spear->worker. Lux tax to 10%.
(3) 925 Our valiant little boat dies under a hail of Mongol arrows. Amsterdam continues to churn out spears. Groningen whips a spear. Literature is in play already.
(4) 900 Now Russia joins the party by allying with the Ottomans. Ugh. Rotterdam: settler->settler. Hague: granary->worker. Groningen: spear->worker. Haarlems archer takes out an Aztec warrior.
(5) 875 Can you say 100% participation? The Ottos enlist the Hittites in their evil crusade against our pacifist nation.
Iron comes online and Amsterdam swaps to sword training (every three turns), while Utrecht does the same. Those blights on our western landscape are in trouble now!
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Nothing like blood in the water... 
Well, we weren't looking for an easy game, right? 
Well, we weren't looking for an easy game, right? 
Kylearan
compound eye
Scouting Sid, huh? A full dogpile in 875BC... shudder May the PRNG be with you!
I hope you scouts report back with screenshots from the fighting scene!
I hope you scouts report back with screenshots from the fighting scene!
Awww...what's a little dogpile between friends?
Just use standard ideas. Stop expansion. Button up. Wait for the alliances to expire so buying peace is cheaper. Fight defensive. Hope for good PRNG results. Buy peace with several at the same time to hopefully lessen chances of the dogpile repeating.
I have full faith in Reagan.
It looks like we still don't have math. Catapults would have been very nice. But I would strongly recommend using archers as part of the defensive force. The first strike ability on defense (like defensive bombard) is very useful and worth the investment, if the city can be saved.
And it's not like the AIs have strong productive cities on our mainland. They have to ship over strong troops. Their cities on our land will require 4 turns to build a regular warrior, so it shouldn't be much worse than fighting AWM, for a short while.
Arathorn
Just use standard ideas. Stop expansion. Button up. Wait for the alliances to expire so buying peace is cheaper. Fight defensive. Hope for good PRNG results. Buy peace with several at the same time to hopefully lessen chances of the dogpile repeating.
I have full faith in Reagan.
It looks like we still don't have math. Catapults would have been very nice. But I would strongly recommend using archers as part of the defensive force. The first strike ability on defense (like defensive bombard) is very useful and worth the investment, if the city can be saved.
And it's not like the AIs have strong productive cities on our mainland. They have to ship over strong troops. Their cities on our land will require 4 turns to build a regular warrior, so it shouldn't be much worse than fighting AWM, for a short while.
Arathorn
![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
Sorry guys . . . I'm almost through with the back half of my turns, but I had to work around a lot of distractions (including a certain blonde Texas gal) last night and played only half to a full turn at a time before having to shut it down. It's kind of annoying when it takes as long to load the game as the amount of time one has to play. Despite that, I have taken my time playing and have kept pretty good continuity with our defensive approach. We haven't lost a city (and shouldn't) during any of my turns, although the whipping effects will be felt for awhile yet. The Ottomans are dropping ancient cavs on us, which is not fun! I settled one more city and we now qualify to build the FP. I will finish and post by early evening today.
No worries about the time. Gothmog just got his game and Skyfish still has no chance to even have it in stores yet.
Good news on the no loss of cities -- especially against those ancient cavalry, which are almost brokenly tough.
Arathorn
Good news on the no loss of cities -- especially against those ancient cavalry, which are almost brokenly tough.
Arathorn
T-hawk
Transcend
Anyone remember the last time an LOTR game received a 7-way dogpile in the BC era? I remember how that one turned out... 
