LotR10: Scouting Sid
- Thread starter Arathorn
- Start date
All looks good of course. Excuse the 
guys these are my first ever turns, didn't even have time to have a few practice rounds.
I perform quite some (partial)whips mainly for acqueducts/temples/harbours, we will jump into Anarchy next round and we can get pop back up fast in Republic .
We have a huge FP issue in all these games : what are we gonna do about the FP guys ?
I go to F1 and revolt! We draw 7 turns of anarchy
Welcome to C3C Sky 
However no need for any taxmen, only 2 fishing villages are unhappy.. We make 6gpt.
IBT :
Acqueduct completes in Utrecht, Den Haag Eindhoven, Temple in Maastricht, Harbor in Leiden.
70AD : Mongols and Aztecs sign vs Spain.
90AD : A deal ends we make 22gpt.
I go looking for a deal and the Hittites can gives us Literature+Worker for Wines+45g.
I dont see the trading route being a danger so I do it (the next best deal was Lit for Wines +7gpt)
110AD : Ottos renew the deal Ivory vs Wines for only 10g extra ..but then I see a Carrack !
130AD : Portugal and Ottoman sign vs Russia :interesting ! Russia starts Magellan
150AD : Aztec & Portugal sign peace SPain & Ottos sign vs Russia.
170AD : We come out of Republic and make...71gpt. Nice
There is no tech deal anywhere though, the cheapest tech is all our treasury 740g + 35gpt for Engineering 
190AD : The Aztcs have now 16620g (no typo!) this can only be a bug in the program sorry but this is borken...
210AD : A few civs can sell map, I shop around and the Russians are teh cheapest, I buy their WM for ours+175g.
We now see the whole word except the Ottos who cant sell maps yet.
230AD : Pop is on the rise everywhere, we need to go up to 10% luxes, we are still at 66gpt though.
250AD : Mongols and Russia sign vs Ottomans, Hittites sign peace with Portugal.
I sell our map for whatever we can get, teh aztecs pay 20g for it
Was going to move troops in Russia to start the war but I dont want to wreck our reputation, I leave the units unfortified.
(remember CB1 Arathorn ?
)
Also since the deals with Russia are finished, the Iron is available to trade if you want to do that I will let you handle
it.
Aztecs have now 20000 gold sorry but this is broken...and it affects us and the other AIs.
Now the good news in this game is this :
As long as they keep beating each other we still have a chance..
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LotR10,_250_AD.zip
guys these are my first ever turns, didn't even have time to have a few practice rounds.I perform quite some (partial)whips mainly for acqueducts/temples/harbours, we will jump into Anarchy next round and we can get pop back up fast in Republic .
We have a huge FP issue in all these games : what are we gonna do about the FP guys ?
I go to F1 and revolt! We draw 7 turns of anarchy
Welcome to C3C Sky However no need for any taxmen, only 2 fishing villages are unhappy.. We make 6gpt.
IBT :
Acqueduct completes in Utrecht, Den Haag Eindhoven, Temple in Maastricht, Harbor in Leiden.
70AD : Mongols and Aztecs sign vs Spain.
90AD : A deal ends we make 22gpt.
I go looking for a deal and the Hittites can gives us Literature+Worker for Wines+45g.
I dont see the trading route being a danger so I do it (the next best deal was Lit for Wines +7gpt)
110AD : Ottos renew the deal Ivory vs Wines for only 10g extra ..but then I see a Carrack !
130AD : Portugal and Ottoman sign vs Russia :interesting ! Russia starts Magellan
150AD : Aztec & Portugal sign peace SPain & Ottos sign vs Russia.
170AD : We come out of Republic and make...71gpt. Nice
There is no tech deal anywhere though, the cheapest tech is all our treasury 740g + 35gpt for Engineering 190AD : The Aztcs have now 16620g (no typo!) this can only be a bug in the program sorry but this is borken...
210AD : A few civs can sell map, I shop around and the Russians are teh cheapest, I buy their WM for ours+175g.
We now see the whole word except the Ottos who cant sell maps yet.
230AD : Pop is on the rise everywhere, we need to go up to 10% luxes, we are still at 66gpt though.
250AD : Mongols and Russia sign vs Ottomans, Hittites sign peace with Portugal.
I sell our map for whatever we can get, teh aztecs pay 20g for it
Was going to move troops in Russia to start the war but I dont want to wreck our reputation, I leave the units unfortified.
(remember CB1 Arathorn ?
)Also since the deals with Russia are finished, the Iron is available to trade if you want to do that I will let you handle
it.
Aztecs have now 20000 gold sorry but this is broken...and it affects us and the other AIs.
Now the good news in this game is this :
As long as they keep beating each other we still have a chance..
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LotR10,_250_AD.zip
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
Wow. That's some nasty gold bug with the Aztecs!
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
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- Sep 19, 2002
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- 3,352
Well played Skyfish.
We definitely have extra problems with the gold bug and the FP "fix". Gotta hope that the AI stays at war and no one comes out on top. Continents should help that. At least it looks like we will be able to conquer the land north of the isthmus pretty easily, and there isn't really a dominant AI to the south (yet).
Any victory will be a good one in this game, we should take a hard look at diplo - though getting the UN will be tough.
Reagan's up AFAIK.
We definitely have extra problems with the gold bug and the FP "fix". Gotta hope that the AI stays at war and no one comes out on top. Continents should help that. At least it looks like we will be able to conquer the land north of the isthmus pretty easily, and there isn't really a dominant AI to the south (yet).
Any victory will be a good one in this game, we should take a hard look at diplo - though getting the UN will be tough.
Reagan's up AFAIK.
Most of the Aztec gold gain was from gpt deals from other civs. Their gold gains drop dramatically when you ally all the other civs against them (I played with the save and tried this out).
They did have another source though. Tourism? Capturing cities? The turn I checked they were at 100% science and gained slightly in cash. The amount of gold from the Oracle looked impressive. I certainly couldn't count them. Seems hard to believe it was enough to support their whole empire maintenance though.
They did have another source though. Tourism? Capturing cities? The turn I checked they were at 100% science and gained slightly in cash. The amount of gold from the Oracle looked impressive. I certainly couldn't count them. Seems hard to believe it was enough to support their whole empire maintenance though.
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
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just looked over the game and noticed that the aztecs have a longbow in our territory, they also happen to need Iron and will give us feudalism and a bit more for it (best deal on our Iron by far). I know it is a bit dastardly 
but I am thinking about doing the trade and them asking the longbow to leave. If he leaves, the deal is still good for us. If he declares war we get feudalism and our Iron back. He is already at war with Oz and Izzy and his cities on our continent aren't that powerful. The big risk is another dogpile, but only the Hittites really scare me and I could probably get a RoP with them. That combined with the Wine we give them might dissuade him (though the Aztecs have piles of Gold). Plus we would have feudalism and be on our way towards Chiv...So what do y'all think?
Otherwise we can go at Russia with our horses, give the Aztecs Iron for feudalism and hope. We could still end up at the bottom of a dogpile in that scenario.
Nothing wrong with demanding that they leave, after trading. In general, unless they're on a sneak-attack vector, they'll just leave, but it's certainly worth doing...like you said, iron for Feudalism is a good deal for us anyway.
Arathorn
Arathorn
Watch out that the trade route to Hittites goes through one Aztec coast tile no ? (cant open the save to verify)
Thats Aztec city on our continent is a much better site than any Russian cities, however I am scared of their huge treasure
Thats Aztec city on our continent is a much better site than any Russian cities, however I am scared of their huge treasure
The Portugese declared on us in the last dogpile despite an ongoing trade deal. With the big ol' pile of gold the Aztecs have, they can entice a lot of civs to jump on us. That said, if the trade route to the Hittites is secure without going through Aztec territory, I'm open to the Aztec trade/demand approach Gothmog proposes.
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
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Preturn Hittites have two knights in our north. Aztec longbow next to our capital?
I think over the trade and demand issue It does look to me like our trade rout travels south along the coast through Aztec land, I am not sure about all of the rules surrounding trade through sea tiles but I know we cant travel their safely yet. I also dont know who has Navigation and/or Magnetism, so I decide that Iron for Feudalism+130 gold is a good deal anyway. When our deal with the Hittites expires we could try the demand rout with the Aztecs, as we will want to capture their cities on our part of this continent anyway.
I move our troops towards Russia, no need to declare and capture those workers this turn. They are building a mine on a mountain and will be there for me.
(IT) Renew Wine for Silk+Furs with Spain, have to kick in 2 gpt + 5 g up from 1 gpt. Spain and Otto MA vs. the Hittites, Otto starts Shakes.
(1) 260 AD movement.
(IT) Hittite knights enter our territory, I looked into an RP but they want us to pay a few gpt. A spear leaves Magadan (the city I am targeting as the first Russian casualty). Aztec call up and want to ally vs. Spain.
(2) 270 AD War vs. Russians begins worker capture, regular musket in Magadan?
(IT) Spain and Mongols make peace.
(3) 280 AD Attack on Magadan: horse vs. musket retreat no damage, 2nd horse retreat 1 damage, 3rd horse kills musket, 4th horse vs. spear retreat 1 damage, 5th horse kills spear. We capture Magadan for 5 gold and harbor intact. Good retreat luck on that one!
(IT) Longbow emerges from Bryansium and attacks a horse, which retreats. Spain starts Magellans.
(4) 290 AD Kill Russian longbow, spot two more. Kill them too.
(IT) I see a couple Russian galleys entering cities.
(5) 300 AD movement
(IT) Lose a sword to a Russian longbow.
(6) 310 AD Kill Russian longbow. More troop movement.
(IT) Aztec and Russia MA vs. Portugal (Aztecs declare on Portugal). Nice that Cathy doesnt consider us as much of a threat. Russia lands a spear and two longbow near our capital.
(7) 320 AD Attack on Bryansium: horse vs. spear retreat 1 damage, 2nd horse dies 1 damage, 3rd horse kills spear and promotes (my first), 4th kills unfortified spear, longbow left on top. I kill the Russian invaders near the capital and get another promotion.
(IT) Mongols call up and offer monarchy for 1290 gold (we can buy about any tech for gold now but I want to extort them from Russia). Russian longbow kills a sword outside our next target, Khabarousk. A spear settler pair leaves Khabarousk. Russia lands a 2/4 knight (?) and two longbows near Magadan.
(8) 330 AD Attack on Khabarousk: Sword vs. (reg) Musket dies 1 damage, 2nd sword kills musket, horse kills reg pike, horse kills longbow (and sinks a galley) and Khabarousk is ours. That went well, I have 4 more horses ready to attack.
Horse dies on fleeing spear, horse kills fleeing spear. Attack on Bryansium: horse kills whipped shield, horse kills longbow ours.
(IT) Russian knight and 2 longbows move off mountain away from somewhat vulnerable Magadan, onto a hill towards my main force outside of Khabarousk.
Aztec cancels spices deal, I renew for a few less gpt.
(9) 340 AD attack Russian knight, lose a horse but then kill knight with second horse. I then lose another horse to a longbow before taking them out.
(IT) Aztecs and Spain come to peace. Aztecs start Shakes.
(10) 350 AD Eindhoren goes to unrest with 3 happy and 3 unhappy citizens? Is this something new to Conquests? Horse dies attacking Russian longbow, horse kills longbow.
Notes once we take that last Russian city we should be able to get some techs from them, that will be good. Then we probably want a limited war with the Aztecs.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR10_350AD.zip
I think over the trade and demand issue It does look to me like our trade rout travels south along the coast through Aztec land, I am not sure about all of the rules surrounding trade through sea tiles but I know we cant travel their safely yet. I also dont know who has Navigation and/or Magnetism, so I decide that Iron for Feudalism+130 gold is a good deal anyway. When our deal with the Hittites expires we could try the demand rout with the Aztecs, as we will want to capture their cities on our part of this continent anyway.
I move our troops towards Russia, no need to declare and capture those workers this turn. They are building a mine on a mountain and will be there for me.
(IT) Renew Wine for Silk+Furs with Spain, have to kick in 2 gpt + 5 g up from 1 gpt. Spain and Otto MA vs. the Hittites, Otto starts Shakes.
(1) 260 AD movement.
(IT) Hittite knights enter our territory, I looked into an RP but they want us to pay a few gpt. A spear leaves Magadan (the city I am targeting as the first Russian casualty). Aztec call up and want to ally vs. Spain.
(2) 270 AD War vs. Russians begins worker capture, regular musket in Magadan?
(IT) Spain and Mongols make peace.
(3) 280 AD Attack on Magadan: horse vs. musket retreat no damage, 2nd horse retreat 1 damage, 3rd horse kills musket, 4th horse vs. spear retreat 1 damage, 5th horse kills spear. We capture Magadan for 5 gold and harbor intact. Good retreat luck on that one!
(IT) Longbow emerges from Bryansium and attacks a horse, which retreats. Spain starts Magellans.
(4) 290 AD Kill Russian longbow, spot two more. Kill them too.
(IT) I see a couple Russian galleys entering cities.
(5) 300 AD movement
(IT) Lose a sword to a Russian longbow.
(6) 310 AD Kill Russian longbow. More troop movement.
(IT) Aztec and Russia MA vs. Portugal (Aztecs declare on Portugal). Nice that Cathy doesnt consider us as much of a threat. Russia lands a spear and two longbow near our capital.
(7) 320 AD Attack on Bryansium: horse vs. spear retreat 1 damage, 2nd horse dies 1 damage, 3rd horse kills spear and promotes (my first), 4th kills unfortified spear, longbow left on top. I kill the Russian invaders near the capital and get another promotion.
(IT) Mongols call up and offer monarchy for 1290 gold (we can buy about any tech for gold now but I want to extort them from Russia). Russian longbow kills a sword outside our next target, Khabarousk. A spear settler pair leaves Khabarousk. Russia lands a 2/4 knight (?) and two longbows near Magadan.
(8) 330 AD Attack on Khabarousk: Sword vs. (reg) Musket dies 1 damage, 2nd sword kills musket, horse kills reg pike, horse kills longbow (and sinks a galley) and Khabarousk is ours. That went well, I have 4 more horses ready to attack.
Horse dies on fleeing spear, horse kills fleeing spear. Attack on Bryansium: horse kills whipped shield, horse kills longbow ours.
(IT) Russian knight and 2 longbows move off mountain away from somewhat vulnerable Magadan, onto a hill towards my main force outside of Khabarousk.
Aztec cancels spices deal, I renew for a few less gpt.
(9) 340 AD attack Russian knight, lose a horse but then kill knight with second horse. I then lose another horse to a longbow before taking them out.
(IT) Aztecs and Spain come to peace. Aztecs start Shakes.
(10) 350 AD Eindhoren goes to unrest with 3 happy and 3 unhappy citizens? Is this something new to Conquests? Horse dies attacking Russian longbow, horse kills longbow.
Notes once we take that last Russian city we should be able to get some techs from them, that will be good. Then we probably want a limited war with the Aztecs.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/LOTR10_350AD.zip
I believe that makes me up. I got it.
The AI is building Shakespeare and we have only achieved one Medieval techs yet. Is that right? BTW, maps require Navigation, which allows trade through ocean squares, so everybody but the Ottomans are/were very safe to trade with. We know that much. And only one side in the trade needs to have the route open.
We have a very long ways to go in this game. Has Newton been started? That pretty much pre-sages a huge cascade into the Industrial Age and I hate fighting rifles with horses and swords.
Thoughts on how to procede? My initial inclination is to finish the war against Russia, hopefully getting a tech or two for peace. Unless things have changed dramatically, though, we're still really short on infra. I would vote for using our saved cash to hurry markets and courthouses (maybe aqueducts/granaries, too) to look to increase our long-term potential. The next sets of techs (engineering, monotheism, education, invention) don't offer us much (except the ability to plant trees) that we can use, so this might be a good time to power up our profits, to make the best use of our cash -- invest now so we can spend more later.
Other opinions?
War with Aztecs for a city or two might be a good option, too, but it will depend on the state of our military at the end of the action vs. Russia. And I truly fear facing cavs/rifles with spears/horses.
Arathorn
The AI is building Shakespeare and we have only achieved one Medieval techs yet. Is that right? BTW, maps require Navigation, which allows trade through ocean squares, so everybody but the Ottomans are/were very safe to trade with. We know that much. And only one side in the trade needs to have the route open.
We have a very long ways to go in this game. Has Newton been started? That pretty much pre-sages a huge cascade into the Industrial Age and I hate fighting rifles with horses and swords.
Thoughts on how to procede? My initial inclination is to finish the war against Russia, hopefully getting a tech or two for peace. Unless things have changed dramatically, though, we're still really short on infra. I would vote for using our saved cash to hurry markets and courthouses (maybe aqueducts/granaries, too) to look to increase our long-term potential. The next sets of techs (engineering, monotheism, education, invention) don't offer us much (except the ability to plant trees) that we can use, so this might be a good time to power up our profits, to make the best use of our cash -- invest now so we can spend more later.
Other opinions?
War with Aztecs for a city or two might be a good option, too, but it will depend on the state of our military at the end of the action vs. Russia. And I truly fear facing cavs/rifles with spears/horses.
Arathorn
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
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After playing my turns I did a test of the trade route, if we had declared war on the Aztecs (during my preturn) our trade route to the Hittites would have been broken. So there is something wrong with your analysis above Arathorn, though I don't know what.
I did not get a message about Newtons.
I did start some infrastructure during my turns, but didn't do much rushing (I did a little though). As I note we have enough cash to buy a tech straight up now.
The war with Russia is almost over, they just have the one little city left to capture and we have enough forces around to get the job done in the first half of your turns. More logistics than anything else, be aware of possible drop off's by Russia on our west coast. I captured two cities and razed one so we should be able to get a couple techs for peace.
I was thinking we would get monotheism and engineering for peace, then we would be in a position to buy Chivalry if necessary to fight the Aztecs. Though I tend to think we could take their 2 or 3 cities in 'our' territory without Knights.
Also check out Eindhoren, it went into disorder with 3 happy and 3 unhappy faces, what up with that? I did not MM it on turn 350, so do you leave it be at 3/3? or will it continue in disorder and possibly take out a building?
I did not get a message about Newtons.
I did start some infrastructure during my turns, but didn't do much rushing (I did a little though). As I note we have enough cash to buy a tech straight up now.
The war with Russia is almost over, they just have the one little city left to capture and we have enough forces around to get the job done in the first half of your turns. More logistics than anything else, be aware of possible drop off's by Russia on our west coast. I captured two cities and razed one so we should be able to get a couple techs for peace.
I was thinking we would get monotheism and engineering for peace, then we would be in a position to buy Chivalry if necessary to fight the Aztecs. Though I tend to think we could take their 2 or 3 cities in 'our' territory without Knights.
Also check out Eindhoren, it went into disorder with 3 happy and 3 unhappy faces, what up with that? I did not MM it on turn 350, so do you leave it be at 3/3? or will it continue in disorder and possibly take out a building?
The Hittites don't have a harbor? That's about the only thing I can conclude....our trade route might go through an Aztec harbor to get to the Hittites. The AI is notoriously bad about building harbors -- just like it is about connecting resources/luxes and the like. That's my current best guess.
I see no benefit in Chivalry. It's an optional tech and if we're forced into too much fighting in the near future, I think MDI/swiss mercs/trebuchets will be our salvation, not knights. I want to catch up on required techs, getting valuable things like Banking ASAP. The only optional medieval tech I am interested in is military tradition. That may change if 2fers/3fers open up, but, right now, I am interested in the long-term catch-up game.
Arathorn
I see no benefit in Chivalry. It's an optional tech and if we're forced into too much fighting in the near future, I think MDI/swiss mercs/trebuchets will be our salvation, not knights. I want to catch up on required techs, getting valuable things like Banking ASAP. The only optional medieval tech I am interested in is military tradition. That may change if 2fers/3fers open up, but, right now, I am interested in the long-term catch-up game.
Arathorn
Glad you did not go after the Aztecs Gothmog, looks like my doubts were justified
Sorry I was not more explicit in my report, you could have checked who can sell us World Map : those civs then have Navigation. Of course some could have Magnetism and no Navigation but there is no way of knowing that anyway.
Sorry I was not more explicit in my report, you could have checked who can sell us World Map : those civs then have Navigation. Of course some could have Magnetism and no Navigation but there is no way of knowing that anyway.
I had this great report all written and when I tried to save it, it crashed my machine, taking not only the latest version, but corrupting all saved versions of it as well. It was a great tale of the highs and lows of this turn. I'll recap briefly, as I have no heart to try to write it again.
Capture the last Russian city on "our" land with no losses. Only get about a 200 gold rebate on Engineering out of it, though, as Cathy fears us not. Late in my turn, one of our conquests flipped to Russia, despite having been starved. Only one garrison spear lost.
Moved on to Aztecs, who declared on us, possibly to get out of a 15 gpt deal they were giving us. Anyway, razed their city in the west for big cash (like 660 gold) and was moving on the one in the north when it started spitting out riflemen.
We've killed one @ a loss of a sword (30 shields for us, 32 shields for the AI -- painful trade) and now have 16 units next to their city, hoping to stop the rifle production and claim the northern part of our island from the Aztecs.
There's been some activity in the south, but our swords and spear have so far been successful. A couple horses recently arrived and that front is stable for now.
Our gpt went from 60ish to over 100 on my turns. Losing some troops against the Aztecs in the north should increase that even more.
I picked up Engineering, Monotheism, and Theology, mostly by trading away luxes and our only iron. The AI civs are mostly definitely in the Industrial Age and Shakespeare has already been completed, with Smith's and Newton's keeping the cascade alive currently. I was aiming for banking to help our cash situation.
Hittites allied against us, too, so we have two foes, although I've not seen a single Hittite troop since the alliance. Just might be a foe we have to pay to get free of. Just be warned I'm using "war happiness" to keep our citizens in line, so be wary of peace.
Good luck with 16 on 2. I had hoped to lure a rifle into attacking a swiss merc for a GA, but I failed on that score. We only have one swiss merc, as unit costs were killing us and I traded away our iron for a huge discount on Theology.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/lotr10-450ad.zip
Arathorn
Capture the last Russian city on "our" land with no losses. Only get about a 200 gold rebate on Engineering out of it, though, as Cathy fears us not. Late in my turn, one of our conquests flipped to Russia, despite having been starved. Only one garrison spear lost.
Moved on to Aztecs, who declared on us, possibly to get out of a 15 gpt deal they were giving us. Anyway, razed their city in the west for big cash (like 660 gold) and was moving on the one in the north when it started spitting out riflemen.
We've killed one @ a loss of a sword (30 shields for us, 32 shields for the AI -- painful trade) and now have 16 units next to their city, hoping to stop the rifle production and claim the northern part of our island from the Aztecs.
There's been some activity in the south, but our swords and spear have so far been successful. A couple horses recently arrived and that front is stable for now.
Our gpt went from 60ish to over 100 on my turns. Losing some troops against the Aztecs in the north should increase that even more.
I picked up Engineering, Monotheism, and Theology, mostly by trading away luxes and our only iron. The AI civs are mostly definitely in the Industrial Age and Shakespeare has already been completed, with Smith's and Newton's keeping the cascade alive currently. I was aiming for banking to help our cash situation.
Hittites allied against us, too, so we have two foes, although I've not seen a single Hittite troop since the alliance. Just might be a foe we have to pay to get free of. Just be warned I'm using "war happiness" to keep our citizens in line, so be wary of peace.
Good luck with 16 on 2. I had hoped to lure a rifle into attacking a swiss merc for a GA, but I failed on that score. We only have one swiss merc, as unit costs were killing us and I traded away our iron for a huge discount on Theology.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/lotr10-450ad.zip
Arathorn
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