LotR23 Only One (Built)

[Arathorn]

My thoughts this morning:

- Make sure that one axe north of Uruk moves quickly. We don't want a river penalty. That'd be just crazy. Absolutely no need for that.
- We want borders to pop -- multiple times to fill in empty spaces. Right now, I think that means libraries, so I'd do those, particularly in Uruk, which looks like a solid science city, with a reasonable number of grasslands to cottage (I'm thinking more CE since we're financial). Chopping forests should help get that infra in place fairly quickly. Including probably another worker.
- Watch Hanni and be ready for an opening. He'll probably build his numidians, so we'll want spears. Not the best counter, but better than anything we'll get until we can claim that ivory and get some elephant action. And that'll be several border expansions or a city capture away. So we can't count on it happening before at least our first war with Hanni.
- While we can irrigate (or even cottage) fresh-water tundra, I'd rather develop the grasslands and plains and hope forests spread around Eridu. It can be pretty effective working non-tundra for quite a while. And, if it gets to National Park....that'd be my current thought. So I'd leave most of those forests.
- Why am I the only one making lenghty commentaries?

Arathorn

 

[LKendter]

- Why am I the only one making lenghty commentaries?

Can you say sponsor? I've notice the sponsor always talks more then the other team members, since they have the primary game plan.

 

[Arathorn]

Can you say sponsor? I've notice the sponsor always talks more then the other team members, since they have the primary game plan.

Yeah, makes sense. But, heck, I don't even qualify for your games at this point (no monarch win). I have some gameplan, but I'm not much of a Civ4 expert. And BtS is a whole new beast. I was hoping for more discussion of plans. I guess it's still pretty early, though.

Arathorn

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Why am I the only one making lenghty commentaries?

Because I have children asking homework questions and I rarely get to finish a long thought?

Agree that we need to pop borders asap. we could divert to myst and whip monuments in newly captured cities. Myst is a cheap tech and the cites recover their pop quickly. be nice if we could conquer stonehenge...

Now that I know we're not going to be Monte style aggressive, I'll build the infrastructure.

Should have a report up around 8 EST.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

If you want to throw me out, I will not argue. I should have discussed this first, but saw an opportunity. The spirit of Monte possessed me in spite of my prior posts and I really thought access to ivory was a no-brainer (of which I am I king).

On turn zero, I look around and decide that 5 axes can take 2 archers. The axes on the hill to the SE start. First dies. Second dies. Thirds wins against long odds. W ax attacks and dies. Attack across the river at good odds and win, take Uruk. Scout by Carthage notices it is defended by a solo archer.

I mull it over, spirit of Monte visits, decide this is not a major war in the ethos of LK and decide to roll the dice.

I switch reseach to myst so we can whip some monuments.

turn 90 - myst finishes. start alpha. switch Uruk and Eridu to monuments

91 - whip monument in uruk

96 - stonehenge is built in far away land

97 - carthage gets a second archer. scout lurks.

98 - gems are hooked up

100 - decide to go long on the turns to see if I am a goat or a ram

101 - whip monument in illegilble city

102 - ax kills archer in Carthage. ax dies to archer. ax kills chariot. spear kills archer. ax kills chariot. we now have carthage. hanni is on OCC.

gamble paid off. I won't do it again.

various screenies:

the save, see below

 

[Arathorn]

OK, we're now up to 4 cities. I guess that's OK. Taking an opportunity presented is hard to ignore. And capital sites are almost always some of the best sites around. So I can't complain. In fact, it's pretty cool.

We do need to make sure we give the AIs chances to build some cities so we can actually get a domination win. And without giving some AI an overabundance. But one civ down and one wounded isn't bad.

And, Admiral, we were playing 15 per, so you didn't go over. In fact, we'll be doing that for a while. Tartan can take 18 and get us back on normalish numbers. With no military in production, I'd recommend making peace pretty quickly. And get some military in production to protect what we have and maybe try to set us up to go after a barb city (or two). Remember we have raging barbs.

Roster:
Arathorn -- on deck
LKendter
Strauss
Admiral Kutzov -- just played
Tartan -- up (18 turns)

Arathorn

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

With no military in production, I'd recommend making peace pretty quickly. And get some military in production to protect what we have and maybe try to set us up to go after a barb city (or two). Remember we have raging barbs.

the dinghy goes out and hooks up the fish. we consolidate and prepare for Issy. she's got the only religion on the continent. i took into account the raging barbs, and concluded that the more AI we kill the more barb cities will pop. anectdotal only. that barb city to the sw gets us deer. agree we need more military. my thought on alpha is that we can trade for iron. alpha also lets us unleash spies. I suggest we weight all the EP to Bella.

We do need to make sure we give the AIs chances to build some cities so we can actually get a domination win.

I think we can get by if we go caste and employ artists. I really wanted to deprive Hanni of ivory and horses. not sure we can do both, but worth a shot.

we need more workers. not sure how to get there. Tatran will bail me outl

And BtS is a whole new beast. I was hoping for more discussion of plans. I guess it's still pretty early, though.

at some point, you'll tell me to shut up! I ramble and think out loud.

 

[Tatran]

AK, I do hope you've saved your hard labor, because the file above is the wrong one.
(Btw, I had the same thoughts on Hannibal. )

With Roosevelt having stone near his capital we can forget all the stone wonders.
I also don't like the idea to waste resources on monuments.
Let Isabella build missionaries and spread them to our cities.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

damn, i'm an idiot. does this look better? http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/11866/LotR23_BC-1450.CivBeyondSwordSave in the long run the monuments pay off.

 

[LKendter]

damn, i'm an idiot. does this look better? http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/11866/AutoSave_AD-1440.CivBeyondSwordSave in the long run the monuments pay off.

1440 AD

That looks odd to me.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

been editing furiously, hopefully, I've got the correct one up now, let me know. sorry fer the confusion. should be the 1450 save.

 

[Arathorn]

The one up now is labelled 1450 BC. I'm at work and can't check, but I think/hope it's OK.

Arathorn

 

[Arathorn]

I checked the save. It's the correct one.

Tatran, are you out there? Are you playing?

Arathorn

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I checked the save. It's the correct one.

I checked too. looks like the right one.

@tat - the monuments are a quick whip in newly conquered cities. down the road, they get us the border expansions we need

I bring this up for discussion. I think it is better to kill AI and let the barb cities pop rather than let the AI develop. thoughts? with that in mind, and considering her personality, and the fact she's got the only religion in sight, do we want to build to war on Bella?

 

[Tatran]

Playing and will report in a few hours.

 

[Tatran]

There's a barb town to the south of Nidaros.
It grabs copper + deer, a good production city.

Switch Nidaros to axeman and Uruk to barracks.
We need some more military against the barbarians +
Hannibal's second city has resources we do not have,
horses + sugar + banana (+ dyes).

1425 BC (1)
Hannibal has 2 workers, not an opportunity to miss.

1300 BC (6)
Whip worker in Carthage.

1275 BC (7)
Another barb town spotted to north of Utica.

1250 BC (8)
Research : Alphabet is known -> Mathematics

Hannibal is history and we got 2 more workers.
Whip monument in Carthage.

1125 BC (13)
As suspected, Isabella is sending missionaries.

1100 BC (14)
Some AIs have Iron Working, but the price isn't right.

1075 BC (15)
I've left an axeman unmoved near Gepid, defended by a warrior.
We're running negative at 50% research.

 

[LKendter]

We now have 5 cities far apart. It looks like it is time to go into builders mode. We need time to start getting some mature cottages up and going.

 

[Arathorn]

Now is definitely the time to do some builder's mode. I'll keep some military going, as we also have a lot of spread-out land to defend. But the focus will be on our economy. 50% research isn't bad and I'll not turn down a high-quality city (barb or otherwise), even if it hurts research percentage a bit more. But I definitely want Currency and/or CoL before we go too much further. At least some places for our Financial trait to help us out.

Got it. I should be able to play tonight.

Roster:
Arathorn -- up
LKendter -- on deck
Strauss
Admiral Kutzov
Tartan -- just played

Arathorn

 

[Arathorn]

(0) OK, why do I have an unmoved unit? In the future, please COMPLETE the entire pass-off turn. Fortified units are OK, but complete the turn.

We have a CR2 axeman by warrior-defended Gepid. It's got a cow. Will it pay for itself? Fairly quickly, probably, since we're financial and I can work the sea, too. But it shouldn't be my decision to make.

City MM: Whip library in Nidaros. Even at 3 commerce, I'm not the fondest of working coast without a lighthouse. 1/0/3 doesn't excite me. And working scientists go get that first great scientist earlier seems like a very good plan to me.

Everything else looks OK. Uruk will do research one turn and then get to work on workers.

I don't understand why we're roading to Izzy, though. We can't really afford more cities at this point. And we have SO MUCH to do at home yet. They'll all be reassigned post haste, once I can.

(I) Gepid conqueror attacked by a warrior and defeats him, to keep the city. Nidaros library -> worker with one scientist assigned.

(1) I have to use Uruk's defender axeman to prevent a barb warrior from pillaging. For having conquered 5 cities, we don't have much military. I want to get to work on that, too. Kill two barb warriors total. Safe for a bit. Spot another barb town south of Carthage, however.

(I) Buddhism spreads in Uruk, but I decline to convert at this time. It might be wise, but at this point, I'm not seeing the real need.

(2) Decision time -- Size 2 Gepid is defended by a single warrior. We have a full-strength axeman there. Do we want ANOTHER city already? I think our finances can probably take it, as long as we keep working on developing them hard and fast. We are behind in tech and can't get IW, which would be REALLY nice for cutting down jungle by Utica. Well, not for our Writing monopoly anyway. We maybe could for Alphabet, but I don't want to be trading away two monopoly techs just yet.

Our axe wins, handily. We pillage 45 gold and keep the town. We need to start utilizing financial and get some cottages up 10 turns ago now. More financial hole. But I'm hoping to start chopping our way out of it.

(I) Asoka captures Circassian, south of Carthage. It's gonna be a killer for upkeep for him, I would think, MILES from home. And we didn't want it now, even if we were in a position to take it, which we weren't.

(3) Trying to defend all our borders. South is the worst. But it's not bad, really.

(I) Magyar axe defends against attacking warrior.

(4) 950 - Not much.

(5) 925 - Whip monument in Gepid. Expanded borders early will help against Justinian later. Chops complete a bit early -- math not quite in yet. My bad.

?? Turn 125 -- 7ish -- not much going on. Bleeding cash rapidly. Break-even is 10% science, but we have some cottages finally growing and a few more in production.

Tech choice:

Currency was my tech choice -- because it's the one to best get us out of our cash hole.

Why is Utica "rightfully" asking to join Justinian of the Byzantines? That's utterly ridiculous. I'm tired of that mechanic and saying "NO" every few turns. Justinian has no right to Utica -- no cultural pressure and it's not like it was ever his.

Continuing on. I'm going to play to turn 130 to get us back to even numbers and we can go from there.

At the end, the Writing monopoly has been broken by Roosevelt. He's willing to give Archery and Iron Working for Alphabet. I'm tempted. I couldn't find any deals for Writing that I really liked, though. Asoka would be willing to declare on Justinian, so it might be to our advantage to trade him Writing for something cheapish (like Masonry) and then seeing if we could get a declaration for Alphabet, about the same time we trade with Roosevelt.

We're deep into the top of the tree, which feels odd for a militaristic game, but we NEED to get our finances in order. I've heard even percentages work better, so I've kept us on 40% science most of the time. We'll be broke shortly into Lee's turns at the current rate. I've been prioritizing growing cottages over working more short-term lucrative lake tiles, but that might not be the best option going forward.

Buddhism is another decision to make. We have *one* Buddhist city, but Izzy and Roosie are Buddhists and it might be worth it for the diplomatic benefit. I think Izzy founded all 3 religions and just likes Buddhism best. At least, nobody else has declared a religion, which makes me think Buddhism is the only one being spread. Which leads to Izzy being in control. Capturing her hydra city is high on my list, but I doubt it would pay for itself yet, and we need that badly!

There's another barb city north of Nidaros that we might want to think about capturing. Short-term, it'd give us some cash and long-term it's good, but we're bleeding cash so badly now. Gepid and Nidaros have some axemen that could be sent that way, if desired. I just saw it the last turn and didn't want to commit to more cash bleeding without discussing with the team.

Roster:
Arathorn -- just played
LKendter -- up
Strauss -- on deck
Admiral Kutzov
Tartan

Arathorn

 

[Tatran]

@Arathorn
At the moment we aren't at the same communication level, but don't worry.

I left the axes near Gepid unmoved, so the team could make a decision to take it now or later.
There was no hurry to capture it.

We have open borders with everyone, but no roads and thus no foreign commerce.
And roading towards Isabella give us the chance to get more religions.

The barbarians are a huge disappointment in BTS, except that one event.
I'm used to raging barbs in warlords with a lots of barb axes early on.