LotR23 Only One (Built)

[Arathorn]

Roster:
Arathorn -- up
LKendter -- on deck
Strauss
Admiral Kutzov
Tartan -- just played

So, I see it. But I'm not going to play tonight. Probably tomorrow night, though. That gives everybody time to comment, which I'd love to hear/read.

Nidaroas as HE city? Worth it even without marble? I'll do that, unless someone talks me out of it.

War -- on the barbs. Make sure we're set up to take the two barb cities, which we probably already are. Glad to see Justinian being dogpiled. Fun diplo. I'm still tempted to join, just for the diplo bonus. But I doubt we are well set up, if Justinian found a stack to send our way, so I probably won't. We're at positive cash at 60% science, so we're ready to expand again, IMO.

I'm a little worried we're setting up Izzy, Roosevelt, and Asoka to be buddy-buddy, so we'll end up fighting all 3 when we want to fight any one of them.

Any other thoughts/suggestions for my turns?

Arathorn

 

[Tatran]

I've missed it during my turnset, but Roosevelt is at peace again with Justinian.
I vote for Carthage (closer to the front) or Megyar (production city) to build the Heroic Epic.
Carthage can't build the FP at the moment, because we need another city + 1 or 2 courthouses.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Short term - take the barb city and do whatever else is needed for the FP. Build military. Steal where prudent. Hadn't really thought about the HE. Keep at least one city on military at all times. Did we do anything with the EP weighting?

Mid-range

I'm a little worried we're setting up Izzy, Roosevelt, and Asoka to be buddy-buddy, so we'll end up fighting all 3 when we want to fight any one of them.

All the more reason to aim for the hydra city.

long term, are vassals turned on? if they are, we should have a discussion about when and how we want to go for fuedalism.

 

[Arathorn]

long term, are vassals turned on? if they are, we should have a discussion about when and how we want to go for fuedalism.

Vassals are turned on. Thus, we should probably have that discussion. Longbows aren't exactly a bad thing, either. Vassalizing means less land we have to own, but more land total to be owned. It's a trade-off. I'm not sure what's optimal.

Arathorn

 

[Arathorn]

(0) -- City review. My thoughts on the merits of each city:
Nidaros -- combination of production and commerce. Sea routes, but a couple 1/5 squares. Military.
Eridu -- limited for now. NE site if we go with National Park. Else, just grow and whip for a while.
Uruk -- probably strongest city for both commerce and production. Has Academy which argues for science. Hills and iron argues production. Sigh -- mix for now.
Carthage -- once hills are mined, will have excellent production. Clear focused production city. Spy fired for mined hill.
Utica -- commerce haven. Needs to grow and pay attention to tiles. Spy fired to get cottages growing.
Gepid -- role not defined. Needs worker attention. Possible commerce site, with sea trade.
Magyar -- production, mainly.

Carthage possible HE city. Yes, it's our FP city. Yes, those two don't mix. But Carthage is well-located for military production, too. And it's one of our best production sites.

I don't get the research of music. I know we're looking to steal Metal Casting, but we're waiting a long time for a tech we could've researched ourselves much quicker. And it's a long time to wait for such a valuable tech.

(1) 265 - Not much to do.

(2) 280 - Same. Couple spies move. Barbs quiet. Cities not growing.

(I) Nidaros War Elephant -> Archer. We need some city defenders so our CR3 axes can actually use their promotions instead of defending cities.

(3) 295 - Yayoi to size 2, but not enough troops there to take it now. More en route from earlier.

(I) Some things complete. More buildings ordered. Economy, economy, 'phants.

(4) 310 - Both axes win and Yayoi is ours. It looks like another commerce city, with basically no hills to speak of. Cottages and roading in process.

Espionage slider up to 10%. I want MC like 5 turns ago.

(5) 325 - (9) 385 - Lose spies in Justinian's lands. Never have enough to steal a tech. Watch Great Spy be born in America. Fight barb axes in the south. Yayoi out of revolt to courthouse. Whip Trading House in Magyar for more food.

Music completes and we are first to it.

Artist not used. His use up for discussion.

(10) 400 - Get Meditation, Priesthood, etc. cheaply (1 turn each) from research. Then to Civil Service. Espionage slider back off. Just not worth it.

Even without much religion, though, we're a pretty cultured lot. Tacitus calls us #2 behind Asoka.

(11) 415 - Monarchy available to steal. I wish we'd never gone done the stealing MC path. I should've just researched it. Oh well. I'm starting to get a group of axes together. And once we take Khazak, we'll have more units to send to the front.

(I) I take this deal Roosie offers. The cash is nice and it'll lead to Feudalism, either rebating it or allowing it. Gift him rice while I'm at it.

We can (and do) start the FP in Carthage. We only needed 6 courthouses and the one in Uruk put us over the type. Yayoi's isn't close yet. Uruk to military for now.

(12) 430 - (15) 475 Gathering some military in Gepid. Justinian seems like a good next target. We'll need a few spears/pikes, though, as he has elephants, too. We're not ready to attack, but the force by Khazak (fortified, mind) will be a boon. And archers are moving to help reinforce some cities. I'd keep Nidaros on archer duty for the next, oh, 50 turns.

Roster:
Arathorn -- just played
LKendter -- up
Strauss -- on deck
Admiral Kutzov
Tartan

Arathorn

 

[LKendter]

It is in the queue for Saturday. If Strauss can play tonight, then please swap.

 

[Arathorn]

Swap is fine, or waiting until Saturday. Strauss, if you play, just be clear.

I'd recommend using the Great Artist as a Golden Age, to let us switch into Beuracracy and Hereditary Rule without needing to undergo anarchy. It should also let us build up a significant army, so we can crush whomever we wish.

After Civil Service (and Beuracracy), I'd go for Machinery, via whatever method we can (including researching MC if we need). Xbows, maces, they're all good. The other option is to pick a bit of minimal current conflict and head for Education, Liberalism, and fight with Rifles later. I think we're strong enough to just go with the brute force approach, but out-teching would work, too.

Arathorn

 

[Strauss]

Sorry, can't play tonight. I am very busy this week and the next one, so I'm not sure if I can play when my turn comes, but I'll let you know in time.

 

[Arathorn]

Strauss -- no worries. Just keep the communication channels open. We all have to be patient, especially this time of year. Just let us know how things are going and we'll do what we can to work with your schedule.

Arathorn

 

[LKendter]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LotR23_AD-0700.CivBeyondSwordSave


475 AD
I leave things pretty much alone. We are close enough to bureaucracy to get the free GA civic swap, so I use our artist for a GA. This will let me have a heavy builders turn.


490 AD
I steal monotheism from Justinian since we can. We may as well get something from our spies.


505 AD
I razed the barbarian stone city. It is beyond redemption, and would claim just three tiles toward domination.


535 AD
With the primary goal being domination, I use the scientist to build an academy in Nidaros. If this were a long-term game I would have founded Taoism. My sense is the goal is to end the game early, and the shields on missionaries would be a waste of time.
(IT) We now are using the civics of bureaucracy and hereditary rule.


=======================

New Updates

I have a small stack building along Justinian's border. It still needs more catapults, along with some unit to handle war elephants.

I completed drama to give us the option of Globe Theater along with the culture slider to deal with potential war weariness. I am open to suggestions for Globe Theater.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I go look at the save, make in depth notes and LK plays... I haven't looked at Lee's save, but from his notes, it appears he has taken care of most of what I was going to blither on about.

In general, I'm not sure why we are sending spies into enemy territory without a goal? Steal techs is goal, inciting mayhem is goal, but parking three in a city just waiting for them to get caught is not. I suggest we keep them within our borders until we have a plan.

Again, xpost thingy, but Roosie would have dogpiled on Justy for CoL. I would have done the deal because he was going to pop it soon anyway.

We may wish to consider weighting the EPs 2 to Justy and 1 to Asoka (sorry, keep flashing on the Dilbert character). I've never really tried it, but could we flip Circassian through multiple spy missions?

I will now stop babbling and look at LK's save and come back and ramble more.

I don't think this is going to go long enough to debate where we should put the Theatre. Opening the culture slider was good.

The more I look at this, the more I think a religion may be moot.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

looked at LK's save. the forges are a good idea. We should hold on the war until we upgrade. We need more stone throwers and spies after the forges finish.

Need to send a spy through this area

 

[Strauss]

As expected, I won't have time to play within anywhere near 48 hours. Go ahead and skip me. Consider me auto-skipped if the game comes back to me before Friday 9th.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

i have it. will play in about 20 hours or less. get those comments up asap, por favor.

 

[Arathorn]

Time for war has come. Spies are better than rock-throwers at eliminating defensive bonii for cities. Just incite a revolt and capture cities (OK, maybe not so simple). Justinian has 6 cities (up from 3 on my turns). It's probably not quite do-able in a single turn, even with our already-promoted units (axes currently) going in. Methodical city to city

A few spears, a fewmore spies, organization, and go. It costs ~2/3 of our EPs for a revolt, so I'd only do the two cities with >40% bonuses to units (Constantinople and Thesselonica). Even at 40%, our well-promoted units have the advantage. And 'pults can get a couple shots in to lower it.

I'd also up science to 70% to get machinery in 2 turns instead of 3. We should still be able to promote a few axes and it gets the war underway one turn sooner. We certainly don't need all our axes promoted.

Our current land plus Justinian's gets us about 2/3 of the way to the domination goal. As long as our economy can support it, we should be expanding, I think. Head-bonking time has arrived.

Roster:
Arathorn
LKendter -- just played
Strauss -- skip through Friday, the 9th
Admiral Kutzov -- up (playing in ~18 hrs)
Tartan -- on deck

Strauss, Friday, the 9th? The next Friday the ninth is in May, 2008. Can you clarify that a bit? Anyway, we'll miss you, but skip you until you can return.

Arathorn

 

[Strauss]

Strauss, Friday, the 9th? The next Friday the ninth is in May, 2008. Can you clarify that a bit? Anyway, we'll miss you, but skip you until you can return.

Arathorn

Well, I have a lot of work. But make that Friday the 14th.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Head-bonking time has arrived.

Indeed it has.

Took the full 15. Tatran should have fun. Much of Justy's army is on the border with Issy. I forgot to take a screenie, but there's a Bzy and Spanish city within spittin' distance of each other in that area I said we needed to explore.

I delayed the war.

Machinery came in on T223 and we started Engineering for the movement bonus and pikes. The same turn, traded cows and rice to Issy for wines and 1 gpt.

Nidaros started SoZ on T226. Should be helpful as we go to war.

Zerkers are done upgrading in T229. Turn research up to 60%. Engineering due in 8.

Asoka offered Feudalism for Machinery +35 on T 234. Took the deal as we still have the monopoly on CS.

IIRC, our SoD is 7 zerks, 3 cats, 2 jumbos. Need some spies. my bad. SoZ finishes next turn as does Engineering.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/11866/LotR23_AD-0900.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Tatran]

Playing...

 

[Tatran]

910 AD (1)
Research : Engineering is known -> Guilds

930 AD (3)
DoW against the Byzantines.

940 AD (4)
The attack on Adrianople gives us a GG.

980 AD (8)
Our spy causes a revolt in Constantinople.

Removing the palace to Carthage wasn't such a bad idea, because spies return to the capital after a mission.

1010 AD (11)

1020 AD (12)
There aren't any swordsmen left (second option), so I did pick the first choice.
We got another copper mine near Nidaros.

1040 AD (14)

1050 AD (15)

Justinian is gone. WW was already hitting some of our cities.
That's the good news. The bad news, I haven't done any research, but our army is fully upgraded.
There's an event to accomplish which requires 7 libraries.
The task for the Great General is still open.
No tech trades are available and everyone is Buddhist, except us.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

nice whackage.

The task for the Great General is still open.

not quite sure what you mean here... Smaller words please.

Issy or Asoka next? Need to re weight those EPs.

That library quest doesn't do us much unless we want to build the Glib.