LotR6 - Progressive Paranoia

Arathorn,

Well, it really wan't 5 deity foes, as we haven't seen any Japanese, Aztec, or Korean troops yet... I should have paid more attention to diplomacy so that we wouldn't be at war with the Japanese, Aztecs, and Koreans.

Quoting Arathorn: "Very impressive..." I don't know if you'll be as impressed when you check out the save file... When I indicated that we were pretty weak on defense, I really meant it... 6 of our cities are currently undefended :eek: (backline cities, but they could be at risk from naval invasions... (3 of these cities are however, only temporarily undefended; we are talking about cardboard cutouts though...)).

You are the one that is going to have to deal with the brunt of the AIs forces with minimal resources. I think it shouldn't be too difficult to maintain what we have, but it'll probably be pretty hard to do much more than that. I am sure your turn will be the impressive one.

JMB
 
Not sure about impressive. Time-consuming, though, that's for sure.

(0) 550 - Look around a lot. There is a route by which the other continent can reach us, even with ancient ships. LOVELY! That means the war with Japan and Aztecs, while psuedo- now, but become real later. Nothing I can do about it, though. Peace very expensive. MM looks good.

(I) Exeter bleeds swords, killing a spear and a horseman, capturing and killing two workers and leaving a couple swords in place.

(1) 530 - Not in a position to attack Exeter. Off the English swords in our lands, though.

(I) Nada.

(2) 510 - Attack Exeter. Get a few retreats, kill some units, get a Great Leader(!) who forms an army that I don't have troops to fill.

(I) Dogpile continues, as Mongols sign on the "Kill Ottomans" line.

(3) 490 - The unit that generated the leader (Arathorn's horse) is successful in razing Exeter! That blight is gone. But England still wants 180 gold for peace. Maybe later, babe.

(I) France is next up on the ally-against-us list. That makes everybody but America.

(4) 470 - Use horse army to off a Korean warrior defending a settler. Slaves are always nice. We're still thin, thin, thin.

America is horribly weak. Set up an embassy. Alliances are very expensive and I want to be able to get out of these wars on my time, not after an alliance ends. Plus, Abe's no threat, even if/when he joins the dogpile.

(I) Seattle will be toast next turn. I'll abandon. France is just too close and it has no units. English start Sun-Tzu.

(5) 450 - Whack another Korean settler pair. Healing, maneuvering. Hoping for a big round against England and then a reasonable peace.

(6) 430 - Wait, wait, wait. I refuse to attack uphill when I don't have to. My kingdom for a few catapults! I start a few, but I should've done more in better producing cities.

(I) Koreans raze Philly. Whoops.

(7) 410 - Whack an English settler pair in the north, who finally dropped to flat land. Kill a bunch of English troops (like 6 swords, 3 spears, or so). Still costs me 160 gold to get peace with Lizzy, but I want to get Furs online again and she has another dozen or so swords prowling the area.

WW lowers so lux tax down to 20%.

(8) 390 - Found Adana to get Furs online again. Lux tax to 0%. See Korean MDI approach. It's looking kinda grim, but we're really doing OK. Feels very grim, though. Adana is not set up for really good defense or even offensive defense, but it'll have to do.

(9) 370 - Healing. Fearing Koreans.

(10) 350 - Off a few Korean interlopers. We've got a bunch of horses in Adana who are probably going to have to attack uphill. Don't forget the army a city back either.

It's pretty ugly. Peace with England was achieved. Korea still wants ~160 gold for peace. Other continent is even more expensive, but I've not seen any troops from there yet.

We're still mega-thin and stretched. No iron has hurt. No 'pults has hurt. The mega dogpile has REALLY hurt. The more foes you have, the more peace costs. Sigh.

Save at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/350bc.zip

Sorry for the sparse report. It's way past my bedtime. The munchkins will be up early again tomorrow, I'm sure (before 5:00 this morning....).

GM, you might want to consider paying Korea a ton to get them off our back, so we can consolidate a bit. We're really stretched.

I still covet New York's iron, though.

Arathorn
 
Nice turn Arathorn! I think Gothmog is in a position where he could probably be able to hurt Korea a fair bit over the next couple of turns... Good luck Gothmog!

JMB
 
Gothmog...you're past your 24 hours "to claim". Where are you? If you've not claimed by this evening (errr...say in about 10 hours from this post), you will be skipped and Skyfish will take these oh-so-lovely turns at the bottom of a dogpile.

Arathorn
 
Whoops, sorry 'I got it' - I was online Sunday evening but saw JMB as the most recent poster and thought it was his Jun 7th post. I'm on a dial up at home. I'll play tonight.

Dogpile... fun stuff. If we were tactless it would be game over at this point. Looks like you did what you could Arathorn - well done. I'll see if I can build on your momentum.
 
Preturn – Still at war with: Korea, France, Mongols, Aztecs, and Japan. Can you say “dogpile” … I knew you could do it. Things actually look good to me, credit to JMB and Arathorn. Peace with Korea would cost around 140 gold, not too bad. Hmm, we need a FP as corruption in our north is really bad – I’m sure that army will come in handy too though. Looking around I don’t see any real options to peace with Korea next turn as they will have an MI, 2 sword, 3 archers, and 3 spearmen next to Adana – mostly on mountains the rest on hills and I am defending with horses and one spear! I swap Gems by JMB from worker to settler and Edrine to library (cultural pressure from England should be relieved). I assuage my anger by planning to crush America in 7 turns.

(1) 330 BC – I kill assorted Korean units and make peace with them for 113gold+WM. Then I trade with Korea 15gpt + 40 gold for Currency. Currency goes to the Mongols for peace+44 gold. I start a market in Istanbul.

I note something strange here, we can trade lux and resources with both Korea and England though we have no harbors and no road route to them. America has no harbors either? This must be the game baiting me into ruining our rep while we are still not tactless, I don’t bite even though Korea would have taken Horses and Furs and a bit of gold for Peace+Currency.

(IT) – France and America form MA against us. Translation: America signs it’s own death warrant as I am ready to stomp on someone… anyone. France starts Sun Tzu.

(2) 310 BC – Attack San Francisco – kill spear, retreat, kill spear and promote, kill spear, kill warrior and promote, there is still an archer showing so I go with a 3/4 horse – promote and autoraze. I swap Edrine to a settler.

(IT) French galley approaches Atlanta.

(3) 290 BC – I attack an American sword/spear approaching SF and get two retreats. Then I kill them with two more horses (one Elite). I send our army towards Atlanta.

(IT) – two more French galleys appear, I’m freakin’ shivering in my boots here Joan.

(4) 270 BC – Kill sword in open w/Elite. Attack on Boston – kill 2 spear (one Elite victory here), lose to sword. Can still trade with Korea and England but don’t.

(IT) France calls up – they want 220 gold for peace. Suck off Joan. Edrine settler -> spear, Gems by JMB settler -> horse. English and Aztec start HG.

(5) 250 BC – Elite horse retreats from reg sword in open and does no damage. Army kills sword in Boston, Elite horse kills the spear Abe whipped up there and we own it.

(IT) America calls up – wants peace, but not bad enough to give up New York (and the Iron we covet). England want to trade TM’s with us kicking in 14 gold, I refuse. Japan starts Sun Tzu.

(6) 230 BC – Elite horse kills spear. Move troops into position to take New York next turn, heal army. I decide I would like to start a war amongst our friends on the other continent so I get an embassy with the Mongols. They are revolting (in more ways than one), but want too much for an MA vs. the Aztecs or Japs.

(IT) – Aztecs call up – peace for 160? Nope. French galleys continue around our coast. England starts the Sissy chapel.

(7) 210 BC - I realize we’re scientific and could get a free tech if I buy Construction, but it would take all of our gold and gpt – I’m too busy killing America to worry about that anyway. Sinop founded to fill in our eastern part. Attack on NY – Elite horse kills spear, Arathorn’s Riders dies trying the same trick. Horse retreats, horse dies, kill spear, kill sword. NY is ours and we have Iron! Elite horse retreats from reg sword in the open. I bomb one of the French galleys for one point. I make peace with Japan for 60 gold. Others still want too much.

(IT) – Horse kills sword in defense and promotes! Korea starts HG, French too. The French galley I bombed heads back home.

(8) 190 BC – bomb another French galley for 1 point. Kafa founded near the ruins of SF and other former cities. Yet another Elite victory as I kill a sword in the open.

(IT) – another French galley heads home. Japan starts HG.

(9) – troop healing and positioning.

(IT) – see an Aztec galley, they still want too much for peace though. The one remaining French galley continues to circle.

(10) 150 BC – attack Miami – Elite horse kills spear, army kills spear then archer and we take it.

Notes – None of the French galleys ever unloaded, the Aztec one hasn’t either. The next leader (Sky?) will get the honor of removing Abe from the game. When that is accomplished we will have an easily defended territory, let the AI land and be destroyed. Somewhere around my 5th or 6th turn we could no longer trade with Korea and England. I have no idea what changed. I played most of my turns when my infant son and I should have been sleeping so I didn’t think too much about city builds or MM, just enforcing dread. The next leader should look at our build orders and maybe trades too in the preturn.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr6-150bc.zip

lotr6-150bc.jpg
 
Looks like good DREAD enforcement to me, Gothmog. Nice stroke of luck that Abe was stupid enough to ally against us. We've been majorly at the bottom of a dogpile. Good thing we still have some tact!!! Getting iron is huge and gives us a realistic chance for the rest of the game. A few peace treaties are also very helpful. We might want to bite the bullet and pay for peace across the board, just to prevent further alliances against us. Of course, having ONE of England or Korea against us might not be so bad now.

Skyfish -- you're up. Finish off America and see about peace with the rest of the world.
T-hawk -- on deck

Remember, the rule in the Medieval Age is that each player gets ONE turn to play diplomat and the rest of the turns are scouting diplo only.

We should really be thinking about an FP location. I got no ideas at this point. I think once we get into Republic and build some courthouses in the north, those fishing villages will be just as productive as we want them to be. Ideal situation would be a GL and an FP in England/Korea somewhere, but that's an awfully iffy proposition and probably shouldn't be our primary plan. Any suggestions?

We're also gonna have to build some serious aqueducts. We're in a pretty dry place at this point. But we want cities relatively fast. Interesting times ahead...

Arathorn
 
Yes, I was very happy that Abe chose so very unwisely. Made for some fun turns too. Peace is still very expensive with most of the remaining civ's but comes down as we grow in power and make peace with others. We need some infrastructure badly. Might even think about joining a couple of our workers (I know, I know heresy!) to improve production, we have lots.

As far as the FP, we should obviously continue to leader fish and I agree about the fishing villages as well. But if we have to build it by hand... I would say Adana? Build a library there first to be sure it wont flip, but that would be an OK place assuming we will own some of England and/or Korea in the future. If we do get a leader Adana would still be an OK place (we don't have many good ones) or maybe Miami?

Edit: Actually on the topic of workers, we do need to connect a road network to England/Korea so we can sell some of our extra lux's while we still have tact. The alternative is to rush one of our Harbors.
 
Nice turn Gothmog.

Regarding our FP, I don't really see anywhere that is particularly good in our mainland area (b/c Istanbul is pretty much in the center of everything...). I think the best location would be somewhere along the river near Coventry or Pusan. If we decide to build it in our own territory, maybe Aydin or New York?

Good luck Skyfish!

JMB
 
Quick survey looks OK, do some lil MM adjustements, I stanbul was going to riot so I up the luxes to 10% for a couple of turns and then I'll whip the market in.
As for the FP I woukld rather build a second core as JMB said our Peninsual is quite nice, America is half desert and
building in the neck of land around Coventry/Pusan would lose a lot to water. Difficult one...
Change Aydin to courthouse, I believe it will help substantially.

130: resting units for Washington assault.

ibt : Aztecs drag Korea in an alliance against us :aargh:

110 : Korean SoD moves near us, MDIs, swords, pikes, archers... :(

90: Have to rush and take risk in America, take Wahsington with the Army, we destroy the Americans good riddance. Start shifting forces to Korean front, dunno if it will be in time though...
Make peace with France for 140g. Whip MP in Istanbul since its size 6 and can not grow, we need some mil units QUICK ! Will grow back to size 6 next turn anyway.

ibt : our only spear in mountain on Korean front kills an MDI defending. We get our first palace extension :crazyeye:

70: Korean front is difficult because full of mountains, Koreans have pikes I can not attack them fortified on mountains so a game of chess begins to get control of the mountain range, I have to call on back line forcesto the rescue. Gems by JMB needs to go off its MP and produce horse, swords are also
ordered because of the def/att value.

50: Join 2 native workers in Kafa and Uskudar (1 each). More troops arrive towards Korean front but things are still dicey, our army is with only 2 hp healing. A Korean vet pike is causing logisitical problems, its on a hill but I need to take it out, it cost me an Elite Horse but we kill it and get a Leader ! That does not help the FP debate at all.
We make 33gpt and I can get Peace from Aztecs for 100g, I take it so we only have the Koreans vs us now.

30: Korea moves and I secure one more mountain, waiting for them to move to the plains.

10: we take out a Pike in open land, with no casualty. An archer SoD is on hills, I let it move into plains before I attack them.

10AD : we lose a few units but contain the Korean invasion. The Army is healed next round and can take out units on mountain.
England still want all of our economy for an alliance vs them.
Koreans refuse to talk.

Ibt : Koreans come to the table and offer a Peace treaty straight up :confused: Are they gassed ? lets see if we can get Construction from them, I refuse...
England completes Sun Tzu, what a powerhouse they're becoming...Cascade to Hanging gardens in Seoul

30AD : we redline a Pike on hills with cats but lose a horseman trying to take it out :mad: we finish it with another vet horseman, our army then kills a vet pike on hill allowing us access to a strategic tile. Rax rushed in Kafa.

50AD : 3 MDIs and a Pike are coming our way but there is a funnel leading to a hill closer to our lands, it's a trap to get them off the mountains. Hopefully they will fall into it as they have in the past.
I could not take that last mountain tile where the MDIs are but if they move to the hill in front we can then close the trap and let our horses in Kafa and Adana finish them off in open lands.

We could be in a position to take Pusan at one point. However we have to watch out that we dont exhaust ourselves in war as our main ennemy is England.
Republic comes in 4 turns, the leader (fortified in Istanbul) can be used for an FP (possibly in Pusan with a big garrison), so it's reconstruction time next for T-Hawk.
We're stretched out but can take peace from Korea any time, Construction with it would be nice though :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Ozman_of_the_Ottomans,_50_AD.zip
 
Well we got our 15gpt back from Korea 10 turns early. That's a big reason why I did that trade.

Once we take full control of that mountain range we will be a tough nut to crack. So much so that it would be great to get England and Korea into a war together - that would be worth alot IMO. Though we could use a time of peace for some much needed infrastructure.

Well done on all accounts Skyfish. Now we have our man with the really big gun up... T-hawk. :yeah: ;)
 
These have been some dicey turns. We've spent a whole heckuva lot more cash on peace than I'd hoped when I was setting up the game, but we're doing pretty well. Saving 225 gold from the Korea purchase helps make up for the 300+ we've spent on other peace....

Eliminating America and getting iron is HUGE! We're almost assuredly going to need some knights and iron is mega-expensive to buy. One less front is also very nice.

Mountains are a mixed curse, IMO. They make defense-by-offense much harder, which is the way to go as humans. BUT, if you can control them, you can set up very nice traps and defense lines. Difficult to do and hard to maintain, but it can be done. Overall, though, I prefer fighting near flatlands....

T-hawk gets to decide whether to try to go after Korea or take advantage to get completely at peace for the first time in forever and actually build some infrastructure. We're want to revolt pretty much ASAP either way, though, as we'd probably still be in war happiness from the Korean war.

Arathorn
 
:worship: Great game guys, pleasure to read :goodjob: Question tho: did we ever find out where the American workers were going?
 
Sure, they were going to the freshwater lake east of Istanbul, right near where we founded Edrine. You can trace an irrigation path all the way from Edrine to Washington. How much of that we did and how much they did is not a question I know the answer to, however.

Glad you're enjoying the read.

Arathorn
 
ChTh
It was during my turn, they started on the lake but were not covered by escorts :suicide:
I tried to run towards them to protect them but 2 turns before I got there BANG a barb took them out all 4 of them :sad:
Was a real bummer as those irrigations would have helped us big time :)
 
Ah, ok. It sounded like from the description that they were heading North of Istanbul, hence my confusion
Thanks :)
 
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