[LP] Louis II of Bavaria. A good or bad leader choice?

[Hellenism Salesman]

Too many people see the Civilization series as some sort of award ceremony for recognising history’s “worthiest” cultures and leaders according to some painfully conventional criteria that favours warmongering and received wisdom.

I’m definitely in the camp that favours the inclusion of some lesser known and “interesting” leaders, and I enjoy the approach Firaxis have taken with Civ 6 immensely. Kristina and Ludwig are inspired choices, even if they irk some people.

And I say this as someone from a country that will only ever have the same three leaders recycled again and again and again… (prove me wrong in Civ 7, Firaxis!)

Plus, there will always be modders to add the "best" leaders everyone complains about being missing

Abraham Lincoln and Julius Caesar already had mods adding them to the game before Firaxis did themselves.

As for Louis, I personally don't know much about him. But based on his intro text (which is phenomenal), I certainly get the feeling this is a personality big enough to warrant Civ VI's criteria,

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

You don't need every staple Leader in every game. But most of them, imo. For Civ 6 I'd strongly favour Frederick the Great over Bismarck.
---

Pros for Otto:
- Fancy Hat;
- Fancier Facial Hair.

Pros for Bismarck;
- Fancy Hat;
- Fancier hand object (cane and gloves, vs potentially nothing for Otto. Lame!).

So according to the only stats that matter, it's a tie!

I'm assuming when you said Bismarck, you really meant Frederick.
Forget the cane though, he needs his flute.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Already did with Eleanor? Though I guess that one can be seen as half a leader or afterthoughtish...

NGL: I'm low key hoping Civ 7 needs to be delayed and we get another Leader Pass. Some people in this thread seem to prefer familiar faces, others seem to prefer greater variety in regards to leaders... myself, I want all of them
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New faces are always fun. I'm very excited about Ludwig. However, I think Civilization is built upon characters, and these characters become a stronger part of our collective consciousness as Civ fans (or whatever you wanna call it) the more reliably and consistently they appear in the series.

You don't need every staple Leader in every game. But most of them, imo. For Civ 6 I'd strongly favour Frederick the Great over Bismarck.
---

Pros for Otto:
- Fancy Hat;
- Fancier Facial Hair.

Pros for Bismarck;
- Fancy Hat;
- Fancier hand object (cane and gloves, vs potentially nothing for Otto. Lame!).

So according to the only stats that matter, it's a tie!



Henry VII

(It's the only Tudor left)

There's another leader of Germany named Otto. an early medieval King of Saxony.
Bismarc was often portrayed wrongly as 'Mighty Militarist' though this because in his tenure as Chancellor of Prussia. The Kingdom of Prussia NEVER lost a single war, however after 1870 when Prussia formed German Empire out of other smaller German states (sans Austria) his policy shifted to concepts of social welfare or something that improved industrial workers living standard, something much needed in Industrialized society to maintain optimum productivity and peaceful society (minimizing excuses of Workers protests).

 

[Uberfrog]

Already did with Eleanor? Though I guess that one can be seen as half a leader or afterthoughtish...

Ah I was forgetting Eleanor! I think because her ability synergises so much better with France than it does with England…

But yes Eleanor is a good example of a leader from outside the box.

 

[Zaarin]

(It's the only Tudor left)

Edward VI. Mary I.

 

[AntSou]

Edward VI. Mary I.

I do not accept responsibility for forgetting about Edward

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I do not accept responsibility for forgetting about Edward

Henry went through a lot of trouble to beget that worthless heir.

 

[Zaarin]

I do not accept responsibility for forgetting about Edward

sad Protestant noises

 

[Widdershins]

And I say this as someone from a country that will only ever have the same three leaders recycled again and again and again… (prove me wrong in Civ 7, Firaxis!)

Oliver Cromwell for the win!

None of this has to be either/or (or "xor" -- the exclusive "or"). We could have Ludwig and Otto both.

Frederick Barbarossa happens to be my current favorite leader to play as. Maybe Ludwig II will be even better, since I never had much use for Freddy's extra combat strength against city-state units.

And so, Bismarckless, and wearing his tuckus as a turban, the newbie slinks silently out of the thread...

 

[Widdershins]

...and then slinks back in.

Say, I thought that Ludwig II's special superpowers were supposed to be already known, but looking around, this appears not to be the case.

I'll only say that I'd be enthused if Germany under Ludwig has all the perks of Germany under Barbarossa, except trade the extra combat strength against city-states for cultural advantages. I think that would be perfect. Going around knocking off city-states just gets everyone hating you.

 

[bbbt]

I'll only say that I'd be enthused if Germany under Ludwig has all the perks of Germany under Barbarossa, except trade the extra combat strength against city-states for cultural advantages. I think that would be perfect. Going around knocking off city-states just gets everyone hating you.

The city state bonus and the extra military card are Barbarossa's LUA so those will both disappear and be replaced by Ludwig's presumed cultural/wonder bonuses.

So hansa and bonus district will be kept

 

[Widdershins]

The city state bonus and the extra military card are Barbarossa's LUA so those will both disappear and be replaced by Ludwig's presumed cultural/wonder bonuses.

So hansa and bonus district will be kept

The Hansa dynamics are the most important thing to me, so that's good. But playing as Barbarossa, I'm often lagging in culture until the modern era, when the sheer production capacity of all the fully-loaded Hansas starts cranking out wonders like sausages. If Ludwig helps me get to Communism earlier rather than later, I'm on board.

 

[Patine]

And I say this as someone from a country that will only ever have the same three leaders recycled again and again and again… (prove me wrong in Civ 7, Firaxis!)

Henry VII

(It's the only Tudor left)

Think outside the cliches, here.

Richard I

Edward III

Oliver Cromwell (personality and vision, definitely, even if his methods were dubious)

Anne (highly underrated for her accomplishments)

In the Era when PM's held power

William Pitt the Younger (led the war effort against Napoleon)

David Lloyd George (People's Budget and WW1)

Winston Churchill

None died too recently

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Winston Churchill

...If Winston Churchill is not a cliche Leader for England, I don't know what is.

 

[Patine]

...If Winston Churchill is not a cliche Leader for England, I don't know what is.

Perhaps, but he's a cliche leader who strangely never pops up in Civ iterations outside WW2 scenario, I'll just say that.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Perhaps, but he's a cliche leader who strangely never pops up in Civ iterations outside WW2 scenario, I'll just say that.

Actually, he showed up in Civ IV as well as Civ Rev II, so technically not true.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: So we have gone from Louis of Bavaria to England. Since we cannot seem to stay on topic, thread closed.