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Loyalty system already doesn't seem right

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Brian LeClaire, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Chieftain

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    I had alot more issues with amenities on my Zulu rampage. Still having them and I have jeans, cosmetics, and stadiums!! Loyalty isn't a problem at all. I have flipped maybe 10 cities into my control so far, never lost a single one to loyalty.

    I bet most of you guys posting in this thread would have played better, had you watched the videos on the loyalty system, the livestreams, and perhaps a few videos from either Marbozir or Quill18. Those videos prepared me extremely well.
     
  2. blackbutterfly

    blackbutterfly Chieftain

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    I've not yet played a full game cos I'm also updating all my maps for R&F so i'm withholding judgement, but TSL maps are absolutely insane with the loyalty system :lol:
     
  3. OldCivDog

    OldCivDog Chieftain

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    Haven't looked at the numbers yet, but I am wondering how much of an effect you have on flipping if you prep a city by running the Cause Unrest/Decrease loyalty (sorry, at work and can't remember what it's called) espionage mission prior to invasion? Might give you enough time to do some damage control once you take a city.

    Also, does anyone know what effect (if any) an active trade route to city has on loyalty? Might want to have a trader handy to send to your recently acquired city if it can slow or stop a flip
     
  4. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    I believe the Netherlands gets extra loyalty from domestic trade but other Civs do not.
     
  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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  6. Brian LeClaire

    Brian LeClaire Chieftain

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    well as I said in the post that region had a heavy loyalty penalty.
     
  7. Brian LeClaire

    Brian LeClaire Chieftain

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    Yeah that's what I'm seeing but Jesus it makes the game less fun, for me at least. I'm in a game where I've been peaceful but the Mongols declared war on me. My army was much stronger and I took over two of their cities I could've railroaded them but I didn't want to do that. I put my Diplo Governor in one city and both of them flipped on me in 5 turns. We've gone over the why's of all it so that's not what this is about. It's just less fun to me. What am I supposed to do if they attack me? Fight purely defensively? Never attack them at all even though they declared on me? How is that fun??
     
    ZubieMaster likes this.
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    What I am struggling with is there is just more encouragement for war... if you were around in the early days I was purely peaceful. Sadly its just harder to play that way and in reality you are fighting the game.
    To me now I treat a peaceful game as when we can get alliances. Up until then its up to you . But then the warmongering ruins the diplo side of it.

    My second game was unsuprisingly Victoria played peacefully on emperor. I had Mvemba inland of me and I spready across the shores in a line. The outcone was no flipping until Mvemba finally decided to atack me and I was so annoyed when he took a city that I had to stomp him but we had warred a lot and that meant we both went into a dark age. Look, dedications are a bit ho hum for most of them but that pop change is nasty.
     
  9. Brian LeClaire

    Brian LeClaire Chieftain

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    I actually watched every single one of them. It's not a matter of not understanding it
     
  10. Brian LeClaire

    Brian LeClaire Chieftain

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    I usually play on Emperor, solely because I think that the AI just getting a massive bump to all it's research, production and extra settlers and works and etc etc is not fun. These last few games I've been playing on King, lower than I normally play. I have yet, since Civ 6 came out EVER lost a city to the AI. Not once. That's still the case. I'm having the opposite experience, I'm feeling like war is completely discouraged. 99% of the techs and civics are geared towards military but if I fight, I just lose out to loyalty.
     
    ZubieMaster likes this.
  11. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    I think the loyalty system could use some tweaking.

    I don’t like the idea that it is better to raze cities or outright conquer Civs to combat loyalty penalties. :(
     
  12. Brian LeClaire

    Brian LeClaire Chieftain

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    Yes I agree 100%. It's like hey the allies captured Dunkirk, now they have a foothold to defeat Germany in Europe. Ooops, nope got flipped because loyalty is to low...
     
    ZubieMaster, pietro1990 and Thormodr like this.
  13. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Historically, a lot of cities or regions were given some degree of autonomy in order to combat loyalty issues.

    Perhaps vassals could make their return? Or maybe reduced yields in the city to reflect that the city is governing itself?
     
    Cagarustus likes this.
  14. Sagax

    Sagax Chieftain

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    Suddenly I was reminded of the Civ 5 puppet city mechanic that didn’t carry over to Civ 6.
     
  15. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Ah, yeah. Forgot about that mechanic. Maybe something along those lines.
     
  16. acluewithout

    acluewithout Chieftain

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    Do any of the unique loyalty bonuses which some Civs have make any difference to capturing cities or forward settling (eg RND loyalty bonus, Cyrus’s garrisoned units)?

    Do ages actually impact on loyalty / city flipping much? It seems like they don’t, because it’s so hard to actually fall into a Dark Age.
     
  17. blackbutterfly

    blackbutterfly Chieftain

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    I really miss puppet cities. There's too much tiresome micromanagement in Civ VI. :cry:

    On topic: I'm beginning to see the light to the Loyalty system. I still don't know how to use it especially on TSL maps. I'm playing a TSL map RN and civ caps are flipping left and right. Europe is in chaos :lol:
     
  18. kb27787

    kb27787 Chieftain

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    Play deity and you will notice that cities which were size 7 on king are 15 on deity... dont bother trying to take cities on deity unless you can wipe out a whole swath
     
  19. Sansa_Stark

    Sansa_Stark Chieftain

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    Sorry if this is obvious but I don't get it. Why has that city on the left (Pihto...) base pressure from citizens 20? I thought is sum of positive and negative citizen pressure. There is no foreign influence, and my influence is from city itself and from the one to the south. City itself is 5 pop, the other is 3 pop, but I understand that each tile makes it 10% less effective, so it should be worth only 1.2. So total pressure should be 5+1.2=6.2, and since I am in golden age, it should be 9.3.

    Why it is 20?

    Also, what is or could be "other effects" (number on the very right, currently 1 in both cities)?

     
    Thibaulthc likes this.
  20. cinattra

    cinattra Chieftain

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    I think a sort of realistic solution could be that military units within a city's border could block flipping. Kind of like when you blockade a city you are sieging. A blockade of a city you just captured could have the flipping blocked in a similar way.
     

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