LP1: That's the wrong end of the gun

[dalamb]

I think it's good to have at least one more experienced player commenting, but with only one the rest of us might be intimidated. I was going to post a defence of some of my earlier comments but have to rethink them now that I realize that Norvin is a Monarch+ player. I think Norvin should stick around but maybe if some of us are objecting to his suggestions he ought to explain them. For example, I withdraw my objections to settling the FP city given his pointing out all the food sources.

Regarding the worker: what about the "1.5 workers per city" guideline tossed around in these forums? Doesn't that mean 2nd worker before 1st settler? Also a 2nd worker gets various nearby resources online faster and can pre-build roads to resources outside the BFC (if guarded by a warrior or two).

Regarding the production city: Do we want the Great Lighthouse? If yes, Nidaros should build it, to have a good chance of getting it, and a production city to build units is higher priority than commerce. If not, maybe commerce is higher priority. Nevertheless: do y'all believe that floodplain and a production city should be the first two we build?

If we keep losing scouts in the interior, and if we believe advice from people like TMIT (I think) that exploring coastlines first is a good idea, then maybe galley is a priority (plus perhaps a scout in case we spot any tasty huts, e.g. on islands).

 

[Norvin_Green]

Let me know what ever you guys decide. No hard feelings if you think I shouldn't continue. If I do continue please don't feel intimidated. I am very easy going and will do whatever the group wants. This looks like it will be a fun map.

 

[dalamb]

Please stay!

I think it may be customary to post the current roster:
Nictel
ChuckDizzle -- just played
Cull -- about to play
dalamb -- "on deck"
vranasm
Norvin_Green

I think it's also customary for the about-to-play to post when s/he has "got it" (the save) so we know if somebody has vanished and needs to be bypassed.

 

[cripp7]

with the lack of copper and horse, IW or archery should be next due to barb archers/axe will be popping up soon. why did you go AG? not unless you planned on farming the spice site, which cottages would work better, just start rexing like mad. 2pop whip the settler,worker,warriors to grow back, wash-rinse-repeat.

 

[dalamb]

The plan was to fogbust with warriors for now. I think for later we might have settled near the horses with a later city (4th or 5th?). However I'm nervous about lack of copper, too, and wouldn't mind going for IW before too long.

 

[vranasm]

I think it's good to have at least one more experienced player commenting, but with only one the rest of us might be intimidated. I was going to post a defence of some of my earlier comments but have to rethink them now that I realize that Norvin is a Monarch+ player. I think Norvin should stick around but maybe if some of us are objecting to his suggestions he ought to explain them. For example, I withdraw my objections to settling the FP city given his pointing out all the food sources.

Regarding the worker: what about the "1.5 workers per city" guideline tossed around in these forums? Doesn't that mean 2nd worker before 1st settler? Also a 2nd worker gets various nearby resources online faster and can pre-build roads to resources outside the BFC (if guarded by a warrior or two).

Regarding the production city: Do we want the Great Lighthouse? If yes, Nidaros should build it, to have a good chance of getting it, and a production city to build units is higher priority than commerce. If not, maybe commerce is higher priority. Nevertheless: do y'all believe that floodplain and a production city should be the first two we build?

If we keep losing scouts in the interior, and if we believe advice from people like TMIT (I think) that exploring coastlines first is a good idea, then maybe galley is a priority (plus perhaps a scout in case we spot any tasty huts, e.g. on islands).

Yesterday I watched 'Let's play' on youtube from TCMIV (i think) and I have to say that he especially in the beginning had at times 2x the cities workers... he just used them in couples if it wasnt enough land to improve... generally when he planned city position he made workers in advance for such position and then the settler. Ofc after 2nd/3rd city settled.

I saw some good tips where you can use work boat for exploration the same way as galley.

I am against building production city as second one. I am more leaning toward some commerce flowing. it will pay out more, especially with our fin trait. The position of such commerce site is to the debate (I like northern a bit extreme position) other like more those flood plains. I could live with it.

@Norvin I think you should stay, I just wanted to have somewhat "clear table", I thought you were way above my level and I checked at least 3-5 times if i didnt make mistakes going to Emperor SG.

What is general consensus when we will start warmonger? Will we wait for berserkers and peacefully expand? i know the distances are big, good land etc. But shouldnt we plan for war now?

 

[dalamb]

With lots of land we could turtle up until berserkers, but once we can view the power levels of the AIs we might see that a neighbour is weak enough to be attacked with earlier units. Getting the economy to the point where it can support a lot of recently-conquered cities is a good first stage.

 

[Cull]

How far do I play?

 

[dalamb]

I think there's still a couple of decisions to be made before we can pick milestones, such as whether to try for the Great Lighthouse and where the 2nd city goes.

 

[Cull]

I think there's still a couple of decisions to be made before we can pick milestones, such as whether to try for the Great Lighthouse and where the 2nd city goes.

OK. I'll wait then, and play once those decisions have been decided.

 

[Norvin_Green]

Normally, in an SG the next player (in this case Cull) drops in an "I got it" within 24 hours of the last round (in this case ChuckDizzle) and then posts a PPP (pre-play plan) in which you detail what tech order you are going to follow, what your cities are going to build (please team no more scouts), what the workers are going to do, etc. Then you give the other team members time to comment/critique your plan so it can be adjusted as much as possible to everyone's liking. Normally, it's good to wait 12-24 hours for comments unless everyone chimes in earlier. Then you play while following the plan.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

View attachment 253020

Hi, I'm lurking to relearn this game. I would have joined but you filled up too fast. I used to play monarch regularly. Nictel said I could make inane or insane comments in a PM.

Some observations. Bella is 15 or 16 squares away. Otto is 14. So if you build a worker and give it a guard and road toward each, you can cut that in half. Bella
has copper, Otto may have it. Worst case scenario is that both have spears. how many horses does it take to kill a spear? 2, 3 or 4 times as many? What if you mix swords/axes in? I'd go for Bella first, but that's a personal choice and predicated on grabbing Madrid as a holy city.

While it is good to plan ahead, it seems you are dotmapping too far out. Blocking is not a war strategy. IIRC, you want to be military gurus.

I'd suggest you agree on your next 2 cities, your production in your current city and your tech path.

You are slavers, so the whip is presoposed. I'll come back to this later.

Happy gas (sorry, old guy reference to happy resources) always seems to be in short supply. I always want to grab ivory, gems, gold, silver and furs. Any of that in sight? rhetoricial question.

@chuck - very much enjoyed the report style. Scouts? Never build them. Build warriors. They survive better against the animals. Upgrade them to woodsmen2. psuedoscouts that live. you can upgrade them to axes if they live.

See above for my dotmap. I'd settle the FP city next and then the horsey city. My choice grabs 6 FP and gold. Happy gas rather than one FP.

Suggested research is ag, archery, HR, iron or ag, archery, alpha trade for iron and HR.

So you settle my suggested cities, get HR and/or iron, whip out some units and go on a rampage. I'd suggest 4 workers. One for each city and one to road towards war.

Need some help. My attachment skills are rusty. How do you get the neat BFC to show up on the screenshots?

Don't mind me, I'm an idiot.

P.s. skip the early wonders

 

[vranasm]

@Admiral yes your plan seems reasonable, that's why I asked about when we want to warmonger.
Your plan is good for warmongering "soon". If team wants to warmonger at berserkers we should rex a bit.
I think with some whipping etc. we could look at war in BCs. Incase we want to warmonger sooner then zerks I would maybe even promote prod. city as second one to connect horseys soon and build some chariots.

 

[Norvin_Green]

Most players will tell you that up to prince/monarch that a HBR rush will almost always work (given near enough horses and commerce to tech there fast enough). The reason I don't think we should do it is because that is not playing the map but taking advantage of the game level. The map gives us enough happiness, commerce and resources that REX-ing is the "right" way to play. I'm not saying it's the only way but it's the "standard" way given the circumstances. You guys want to learn to war (we will) but knowing when to war is one of the keys to becoming a solid player. With our commerce heavy capital as well as the FP city we can afford more cities sooner and still tech well. When we have 8-10 cities and decide to go to war we can then produce a decent army in a short period of time.

 

[dalamb]

@admiral: to include screenshots:

1. Get an account on a website that lets you store the pictures. photobucket.com is free; there are others.
2. Insert into your message an "img" tag of the form:
   [IMG]url for your photo[/IMG]
   Photobucket has buttons that copy the right text (including the IMG tag) to the clipboard.

 

[Norvin_Green]

 

[dalamb]

So, I guess we're waiting for Cull to outline a plan?

 

[Norvin_Green]

Hopefully after the weekend we'll get rolling again.

 

[Nictel]

Yeah sorry for the absence from my part.

My suggestion would be to settle the FP city next and then the horsey city on the positions as Admiral Kutzov suggested them.

As for research I would suggest Iron Working so we hopefully get some Iron nearby.

Start working on a road towards to north and plan on a war when we don't need +10 turns to reach an AI city.

 

[Norvin_Green]

I disagree about the horse city. We don't need IW yet either. I believe we teched archery already so we can hold off barbs with archers. If not we should just finish Ag and then tech Archery. IW is a far more expensive tech that we don't need right now as we have a lot of cities to build which is going to slow our tech down soon enough. We will be able to pick IW up in trade easy enough later and with all the space we have will almost certainly be present.