ls612's C2C Units

[ls612]

@ls612

DH is having trouble with running C2C on his computer. Can you please chnage the following alt timeline units for him. Thanks!

Bombard Mammoth
Req Resources: Mammoth AND Iron AND Sulphur
Req Buildings: Mammoth Trainer AND Cannon Forge

Zebra Calvary
Req Resources: Firearms AND Ammunition AND Zebra (once they are added)
Req Buildings: Zebra Trainer

Zebra Chariot
Req Resources: Zebra (once they are added)
Req Buildings: Zebra Trainer AND Chariot Workshop

Zebra Cuirassier
Req Resources: Firearms AND Sulphur AND Zebra (once they are added)
Req Buildings: Zebra Trainer

That would require me updating his schemas. Or replacing them with mine.

 

[ls612]

I am still deciding on them. Some of the graphics looks bad (poor texturing) so I am reluctant to use the units.

If you don't like the textures could you not retexture them?

 

[Hydromancerx]

That would require me updating his schemas. Or replacing them with mine.

Well if they have their own specific named schema then I would so go ahead and replaced them. He said I could do the changes, but I am passing it on to you.

If you don't like the textures could you not retexture them?

Easier said than done. I don't want to make them worse. Likewise it may just be easier to make new units myself. Some of the concepts I like while other I am not sure of. There also may be better units to find that we can use instead. In short give me some time.

 

[Hydromancerx]

As presently statted, what is the purpose of the Organ Gun?

It's unlocked by Metallurgy, requires Sulphur + Iron and a Cannon Forge, and costs 250 hammers. It upgrades to the Gatling Gun. It's Power 15, Movement 1, 1 First Strike, 50% vs. Archery, Mounted and Melee, 25% vs. Gunpowder, 100% vs. Animals, and Ignores Building Defense.

The Ribauldequin is unlocked by the same tech, requires the same resources, building and hammers to build, and upgrades to the same unit... but it trades 1 First Strike for 5 more Power (to 20) and a 25% better bonus vs. Melee, which can still be quite relevant when it becomes available.

Even the 'pedia entries are the same and mention that these are different names for the same branch of field guns.

Organ Gun = Cheaper, Weaker and Extra First Strike

Ribauldequin = More Expensive, Stronger, No Extra First Strike

 

[BlueGenie]

Organ Gun = Cheaper, Weaker and Extra First Strike

Ribauldequin = More Expensive, Stronger, No Extra First Strike

They cost the same amount of and have the exact same bonuses versus other unit types. The 5 Str and 1 First Strike are the only things differentiating them.
Should probably increase the Ribauldequin's cost if it's supposed to be more expensive.

Cheers

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Organ Gun = Cheaper, Weaker and Extra First Strike

Ribauldequin = More Expensive, Stronger, No Extra First Strike

But the organ gun *isn't* cheaper, at least according to its civilopedia entry (which I thought pulled the stats directly). I'll compared them the next time I get to a point I can build them, but I'm pretty sure they both cost 250 hammers. It's why I noticed in the first place. If its price has changed in v25, that's not reflected in the civilopedia.

It seems like the Ribauldequin is perhaps too strong for when it becomes available. You can easily get it before Arquebusiers and it fights on par with/better than Musketmen. If it required a second tech (Leadership? Naval Cannon?) and was given a First Strike, it could be a midpoint in the Organ Gun > Gatling Gun upgrade chain and give Arquebusiers some breathing room.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Ok some prices are way off. Please fix the following costs for units ...

Trench Infantry = 250

Bombard = 200
Great Bombard = 225
Motar = 250

Culverin = 250
Falcon = 250
Heavy Canon = 255

Organ Gun = 250
Ribauldequin = 260
Gating Gun = 270
Machine Gun = 280
Vietcong = 280

Light Artillery = 290

Also the "Cannon" should be re-named "Heavy Cannon". I am not sure how that got changed back. Please fix.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Here is a new Hi-Tech Marine with custom skin and icon/button. We can save the other model for another unit. It did not come out exactly how I wanted it but it still looks cool. Please replace it with the new graphics I provided.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Here is another culture unit.

-----

Flail Elephant (National Unit - Limit 15)
Graphic: Here
Icon: (See Attachment)
Type: Mounted
Strength: 13
Movement: 1
Cost: 90
Req Tech: Armored Calvary AND Elephant Domestication
Req Resource: Burmese AND Elephants
Req Building: Elephant Trainer
Upgrades To: Bombard Elephant

Special Abilities

• Doesn't Receive Defense Bonuses
• 25% City Attack
• 25% Jungle Attack
• 25% Forest Attack
• 50% vs Catapults
• 50% vs Trebuchets
• 50% vs Mounted
• Starts with Commando and City Attack I

Notes: Use War Elephant as a Base.

-----

Also some other stuff ...

Ok this is going to get confusing so bear with me.

1. Change the Shan Warrior to require Thai culture instead of Burmese. It better fits the later Thailand vs the earlier Siamese time. Burmese comes earlier so it better to take the elephant unit.

2. Please give the Battle Elephant an additional 25% vs City Attack since all other elephants seem to have it. Also please give it Shock I promotion too.

3. Give the Battle Elephant this new model. Keep the old icon/button and stats (with changes in #2)

4. Use the old Battle Elephant model to make the Howdah. See stats below.

-----

Howdah (National Unit - Limit 15)
Graphic: Old Battle Elephant
Icon: (See Attachment)
Type: Mounted
Strength: 14
Movement: 1
Cost: 90
Req Tech: Armored Calvary AND Elephant Domestication
Req Resource: Siamese AND Elephants
Req Building: Elephant Trainer
Upgrades To: Bombard Elephant

Special Abilities

• Doesn't Receive Defense Bonuses
• 25% City Attack
• 25% Jungle Attack
• 25% Forest Attack
• 50% vs Catapults
• 50% vs Trebuchets
• 50% vs Mounted
• Starts with Commando and Forestry

Notes: Use War Elephant as a Base.

-----

Mahout Lancer (National Unit - Limit 15)
Graphic: Here
Icon: (See Attachment)
Type: Mounted
Strength: 13
Movement: 1
Cost: 90
Req Tech: Armored Calvary AND Elephant Domestication
Req Resource: Cham AND Elephants
Req Building: Elephant Trainer
Upgrades To: Bombard Elephant

Special Abilities

• Doesn't Receive Defense Bonuses
• 25% City Attack
• 25% Jungle Attack
• 25% Forest Attack
• 50% vs Catapults
• 50% vs Trebuchets
• 50% vs Mounted
• Starts with Commando and Formation I

Notes: Use War Elephant as a Base.

-----

In conclusion ....

- Cham = Mahout Lancer
- Burmese = Flail Elephant
- Siamese = Howdah
- Syrian = Battle Elephant

Also ...

Please add 80% Attack vs Howdah, Flail Elephant and Mahout Lancer for the Phak'ak unit.

Many thanks in advance!

 

[strategyonly]

Come on now (no offense), we need more units in the Transhuman era, rather than anything BEFORE then, Please!!

We have quite enough units before then already, at 2.25 GB its getting to big for sooner units then that.

 

[ls612]

Come on now (no offense), we need more units in the Transhuman era, rather than anything BEFORE then, Please!!

We have quite enough units before then already, at 2.25 GB its getting to big for sooner units then that.

Hydro's had these cultures for several months now with no units, so I figure we can at least make the Culture Units for those ones.

 

[ls612]

@Hydro:

The Battle Elephant was one of the new Culture Units I suggested to you, you haven't posted any stats for it and it hasn't been added yet. Why are you asking for changes to something that doesn't exist yet?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Perhaps we should go through the cultures and take some, along with all accessories such as units and heroes, and identify them for separation into a download pack for more powerful systems that can handle the load. Certainly wouldn't make me want to play with 'em any less but could be kinder to the slower machines and download speeds.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Hydro:

The Battle Elephant was one of the new Culture Units I suggested to you, you haven't posted any stats for it and it hasn't been added yet. Why are you asking for changes to something that doesn't exist yet?

We already had a "Battle Elephant" as the Siamese Unique unit (now changed to the Syrian UU). Note it had an entitely different model than you had.

However the model you proposed IS used under the Fail Elephant (Burmese UU). Note that you proposed that the Shan Warrior be the Burmese UU but then I moved it to the Thai culture.

In short the stats of the Thai Battle Elephant you proposed are not used but the Model you picked IS used for the Fail Elephant (Burmese UU). Thai in a sense still gets an elephant since the Siamese is the earlier culture of Thailand which gets the Howdah (which is more or less the same as the old battle elephant just with a new icon/button and a new name).

 

[Hydromancerx]

Perhaps we should go through the cultures and take some, along with all accessories such as units and heroes, and identify them for separation into a download pack for more powerful systems that can handle the load. Certainly wouldn't make me want to play with 'em any less but could be kinder to the slower machines and download speeds.

Yeah but which cultures would be cut for a lite version? Only playable cultures? Ones that were put in first?

 

[ls612]

We already had a "Battle Elephant" as the Siamese Unique unit (now changed to the Syrian UU). Note it had an entitely different model than you had.

However the model you proposed IS used under the Fail Elephant (Burmese UU). Note that you proposed that the Shan Warrior be the Burmese UU but then I moved it to the Thai culture.

In short the stats of the Thai Battle Elephant you proposed are not used but the Model you picked IS used for the Fail Elephant (Burmese UU). Thai in a sense still gets an elephant since the Siamese is the earlier culture of Thailand which gets the Howdah (which is more or less the same as the old battle elephant just with a new icon/button and a new name).

OK, I understand now. I didn't know that we already had a battle elephant, as it was made before I started with C2C.

Also, regarding the Combat Worker branch, let's discuss development of that on the Workers thread and now here, does that sound good?

 

[Hydromancerx]

1. So do you understand what goes where for the Elephant units now?

2. Sure we can discussion the Combat Workers too. However I will probably still post other culture units as well. I believe you had a possible Cuban and Basque units for me to look over.

 

[ls612]

1. So do you understand what goes where for the Elephant units now?

2. Sure we can discussion the Combat Workers too. However I will probably still post other culture units as well. I believe you had a possible Cuban and Basque units for me to look over.

1. Yes, now it makes sense. I'll make the remaining units tomorrow.

2. Sure, not much can be done in that branch until some SDK stuff is done anyway.

3. I have already replaced the hi-tech marine graphics, check the SVN logs.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

The Hi-Tech Marine I think has the wrong animations (the gun is floating and the head is weird). I used the "Terminator" unit from the "Mars Now!" mod. Please double check to see if you have the correct animations for it.

EDIT: Also could you add an Iron requirement to the ...

- War Elephant
- Battle Elephant
- Mahout Lancer
- Flail Elephant
- Howdah

Thanks! They are the equivalent to the Horse Knights. Thus they need Iron.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

@ls612Thanks! They are the equivalent to the Horse Knights. Thus they need Iron.

The elephant line usually serves as a potential safety valve for civs stranded without iron but with elephants. War Elephants can keep them a going concern in medieval, especially early medieval. Is that not considered desirable?

One of my favorite things about the changes to early warfare in C2C is that the more gradual buildup of melee units, the various megafauna units, and the buff to archer/javelineer base strength, is that copper/iron are no longer pass/fail for survival (including for the AI), but rather bonuses that make warfare easier and more flexible. I'd hate to see elephants cease to provide such an option for the medieval era.