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Lumber Mill buff has ruined the Maori

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Pietato, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    Would have preferred to see things tweaked the other way, taking away the ability to put a mine on any hill, and making mines like quarries, something that require a resource to mine before you can build one. Lumber mills should have been left as something that's only useful along a river, a location that has a lot of competing uses for districts, etc.

    Overall production could have been boosted through buildings that boost worked tiles of particular types combined with a general across the board cost reduction (in terms of hammers; gold and faith costs could remain as they are).

    Also, lumber mills are every bit as unappealing as mines in real life. No reason for them not to carry the same appeal penalty.
     
  2. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing King

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    Instead of production bonus give them a yield for a bonus. There's enough ways to turn faith into production. Or housing or a combat bonus for unimproved forests. They are already a civ that plays differently then most. Any tweeting should if anything increase the differences.
     
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  3. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

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    Good to see Ed respond to this issue. And yeah, adding something other than production might be better for the Maori. Not sure what would work though...

    As it stands now, the +2 Lumber Mill kicks in so early, that the Maori will barely use their bonus except on Rainforests. Maybe at Conservation you will remove a few Lumber Mills for Parks, but that is it.

    On a related note, I agree that the loss of the river bonus is lame. The river Lumber Mills should be superior until Combustion.

    How is it boring?

    Maori are played because they are unique and fun. The UU is only small part of this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2019
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  4. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    eh, the lumber mill boost is a slight nerf for the maori but the quarry buff helps them a lot. Just get those and build IZs around them.

    Besides there's no reason not to build lumber mills in cities without a marae.
     
  5. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

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    ...what?

    No one has more trees than the Maori so the nerf is not slight. Also, the Marae works with Lumber Mills.
     
  6. Medopu

    Medopu Warlord

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    Again, with a (much needed) debuff of great writers, i really don't see a reason for an additional production buff for Maori.

    There are dozens of civs that are currently in a much worse state than Maori that would need some kind of a buff, honestly i really have a hard time trying to understand your issues @Pietato

    This is a civ6 equivalent of first world problems
     
  7. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    Oh does it? I've never played as the Maori, i thought the marae only affected non-improved features. my bad. I'll try them next, I guess.
     
  8. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    I'd agree with that in a way, because "dirt mines" have never made much sense. But that would leave a whole lot of tiles with not much to do with.

    I understand your concern about appeal for lumber mills, but having grown up in "Coal Country" I question that they're "every bit" as unappealing. ;)
     
  9. Hogimus

    Hogimus Chieftain

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    Lumber mills don't get Ruhr Valley though, so there's that for what it's worth. I guess another point in lumber mills column is that you can plant forests to make more in late game.
     
  10. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Most importantly, if you place a lumber mill you're not chopping, so that alone is a huge difference.
     
  11. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

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    This is pretty damn stupid...'It is fine that the Maori were ruined because other civs are worse off'. You sound like a spiteful child.
     
  12. SharTeel

    SharTeel Chieftain

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    I don't understand why a civ should have full lumbermill benefits without building them.
     
  13. Medopu

    Medopu Warlord

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    No spite. I'm telling you how it is. If you ask me, maori are way better now than before the patch. That's why i was asking you why they also need additional benefits when they lost a bit of relative production advantage and why this would be necessary balance-wise.
     
  14. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    I grew up near coal mines, a steel mill, and a pulp & paper mill. Trust me, the logging operations were the worst of the lot.

    I don't think taking mines away from hills mean you wouldn't have anything to do with them. Districts, other improvements, eventually farms all become possible. And in the interim, they're a pure upgrade over non-hill tiles of the same terrain type.
     
  15. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    I think it would be hard to get rid of mines on hills - the game's balance is really geared around that.

    I do think Mines on bare hills could have been nerfed slightly, particularly if FXS are then buffing lumber mills. e.g. perhaps they should given any adjacency for IZs, and maybe Mines don't get additional hammers through the tech tree unless they are on top of a Resource.
     
  16. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

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    A fix to this was conspicuously absent from the patch video, though the Maori will be a coastal powerhouse now.

    Still, I wish the unimproved bonus lasted beyond researching Lumber Mills :(
     
  17. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    Nope.

    I'm not a civil engineer, but lumber mills in the jungle just seems...dumb. Wrong. Jungles are jungles and not woods because they don't have lots of straight, hardwood trees. Jungles tend tend to be dark, moist, and full of decomposition. Even chopping them for bonus food is a stretch. Guess you would wind up with a giant pile of compost.

    Jungles served a purpose in the early game because they promoted growth in a time when having builders improve your terrain was not something to take for granted. You eventually outgrew them and they are better off removed. Made sense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  18. Deadly Dog

    Deadly Dog Prince

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    Whatever the rainforests in Civ are supposed to represent, rainforests in RL are fantastic timber resources. I worked in forestry for 17 years, but that was in the boreal forest, where planning was based on a 50-80 yr rotation. But I invested in a tropical hardwood plantation and the turnaround was only 20 yrs. Remember whatever the climate, trees try to outperform each other and claim the canopy, beelining for the sky.
     
  19. BenitoChavez

    BenitoChavez Whispering Walrus

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    Rejoice!

    https://civilization.com/news/entri...ate-battle-royale-red-death-pc-patch-out-now/

     
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  20. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

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    Awesome.
     

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