Lumber Mill buff has ruined the Maori

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Would have preferred to see things tweaked the other way, taking away the ability to put a mine on any hill, and making mines like quarries, something that require a resource to mine before you can build one. Lumber mills should have been left as something that's only useful along a river, a location that has a lot of competing uses for districts, etc.

Overall production could have been boosted through buildings that boost worked tiles of particular types combined with a general across the board cost reduction (in terms of hammers; gold and faith costs could remain as they are).

Also, lumber mills are every bit as unappealing as mines in real life. No reason for them not to carry the same appeal penalty.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Instead of production bonus give them a yield for a bonus. There's enough ways to turn faith into production. Or housing or a combat bonus for unimproved forests. They are already a civ that plays differently then most. Any tweeting should if anything increase the differences.

 

[Pietato]

Good to see Ed respond to this issue. And yeah, adding something other than production might be better for the Maori. Not sure what would work though...

As it stands now, the +2 Lumber Mill kicks in so early, that the Maori will barely use their bonus except on Rainforests. Maybe at Conservation you will remove a few Lumber Mills for Parks, but that is it.

On a related note, I agree that the loss of the river bonus is lame. The river Lumber Mills should be superior until Combustion.

I thought people just used them for the boring UU anyway . . .

How is it boring?

Maori are played because they are unique and fun. The UU is only small part of this.

 

[Lord Lakely]

eh, the lumber mill boost is a slight nerf for the maori but the quarry buff helps them a lot. Just get those and build IZs around them.

Besides there's no reason not to build lumber mills in cities without a marae.

 

[Pietato]

eh, the lumber mill boost is a slight nerf for the maori but the quarry buff helps them a lot. Just get those and build IZs around them.

Besides there's no reason not to build lumber mills in cities without a marae.

...what?

No one has more trees than the Maori so the nerf is not slight. Also, the Marae works with Lumber Mills.

 

[Medopu]

Again, with a (much needed) debuff of great writers, i really don't see a reason for an additional production buff for Maori.

There are dozens of civs that are currently in a much worse state than Maori that would need some kind of a buff, honestly i really have a hard time trying to understand your issues @Pietato

This is a civ6 equivalent of first world problems

 

[Lord Lakely]

...what?

No one has more trees than the Maori so the nerf is not slight. Also, the Marae works with Lumber Mills.

Oh does it? I've never played as the Maori, i thought the marae only affected non-improved features. my bad. I'll try them next, I guess.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Would have preferred to see things tweaked the other way, taking away the ability to put a mine on any hill, and making mines like quarries, something that require a resource to mine before you can build one. Lumber mills should have been left as something that's only useful along a river, a location that has a lot of competing uses for districts, etc.

Overall production could have been boosted through buildings that boost worked tiles of particular types combined with a general across the board cost reduction (in terms of hammers; gold and faith costs could remain as they are).

Also, lumber mills are every bit as unappealing as mines in real life. No reason for them not to carry the same appeal penalty.

I'd agree with that in a way, because "dirt mines" have never made much sense. But that would leave a whole lot of tiles with not much to do with.

I understand your concern about appeal for lumber mills, but having grown up in "Coal Country" I question that they're "every bit" as unappealing.

 

[Hogimus]

Lumber mills don't get Ruhr Valley though, so there's that for what it's worth. I guess another point in lumber mills column is that you can plant forests to make more in late game.

 

[UWHabs]

Most importantly, if you place a lumber mill you're not chopping, so that alone is a huge difference.

 

[Pietato]

Again, with a (much needed) debuff of great writers, i really don't see a reason for an additional production buff for Maori.

There are dozens of civs that are currently in a much worse state than Maori that would need some kind of a buff, honestly i really have a hard time trying to understand your issues @Pietato

This is a civ6 equivalent of first world problems

This is pretty damn stupid...'It is fine that the Maori were ruined because other civs are worse off'. You sound like a spiteful child.

 

[SharTeel]

I don't understand why a civ should have full lumbermill benefits without building them.

 

[Medopu]

This is pretty damn stupid...'It is fine that the Maori were ruined because other civs are worse off'. You sound like a spiteful child.

No spite. I'm telling you how it is. If you ask me, maori are way better now than before the patch. That's why i was asking you why they also need additional benefits when they lost a bit of relative production advantage and why this would be necessary balance-wise.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I'd agree with that in a way, because "dirt mines" have never made much sense. But that would leave a whole lot of tiles with not much to do with.

I understand your concern about appeal for lumber mills, but having grown up in "Coal Country" I question that they're "every bit" as unappealing.

I grew up near coal mines, a steel mill, and a pulp & paper mill. Trust me, the logging operations were the worst of the lot.

I don't think taking mines away from hills mean you wouldn't have anything to do with them. Districts, other improvements, eventually farms all become possible. And in the interim, they're a pure upgrade over non-hill tiles of the same terrain type.

 

[acluewithout]

I think it would be hard to get rid of mines on hills - the game's balance is really geared around that.

I do think Mines on bare hills could have been nerfed slightly, particularly if FXS are then buffing lumber mills. e.g. perhaps they should given any adjacency for IZs, and maybe Mines don't get additional hammers through the tech tree unless they are on top of a Resource.

 

[Pietato]

A fix to this was conspicuously absent from the patch video, though the Maori will be a coastal powerhouse now.

Still, I wish the unimproved bonus lasted beyond researching Lumber Mills

 

[steveg700]

Makes sense right?

Nope.

A fix to this was conspicuously absent from the patch video, though the Maori will be a coastal powerhouse now.

Still, I wish the unimproved bonus lasted beyond researching Lumber Mills

I'm not a civil engineer, but lumber mills in the jungle just seems...dumb. Wrong. Jungles are jungles and not woods because they don't have lots of straight, hardwood trees. Jungles tend tend to be dark, moist, and full of decomposition. Even chopping them for bonus food is a stretch. Guess you would wind up with a giant pile of compost.

Jungles served a purpose in the early game because they promoted growth in a time when having builders improve your terrain was not something to take for granted. You eventually outgrew them and they are better off removed. Made sense.

 

[Deadly Dog]

Jungles are jungles and not woods because they don't have lots of straight, hardwood trees. Jungles tend tend to be dark, moist, and full of decomposition. Even chopping them for bonus food is a stretch. Guess you would wind up with a giant pile of compost.

Whatever the rainforests in Civ are supposed to represent, rainforests in RL are fantastic timber resources. I worked in forestry for 17 years, but that was in the boreal forest, where planning was based on a 50-80 yr rotation. But I invested in a tropical hardwood plantation and the turnaround was only 20 yrs. Remember whatever the climate, trees try to outperform each other and claim the canopy, beelining for the sky.

 

[BenitoChavez]

Rejoice!

https://civilization.com/news/entri...ate-battle-royale-red-death-pc-patch-out-now/

Maori Civ Ability: Change the production from Unimproved Rainforest and Woods. Before it read "Unimproved Woods and Rainforest are +1 Production, becoming +2 once the Conservation civic is unlocked." Now it reads "Unimproved Woods and Rainforest are +1 Production. Additional +1 Production from Mercantilism and +2 Production from Conservation.

 

[Pietato]

Awesome.