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Lying-flatism

Gori the Grey

Gori the Grey

The Poster
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
13,322
I came across the following

www.psypost.org

Young adults who embrace "lying flatism" also tend to see romantic relationships as unnecessary for happiness

New research published in BMC Psychology sheds light on the "lying flat" lifestyle movement and its relationship to attitudes towards being single. The findings indicate that young adults who have a positive view of the lifestyle, which emphasizes relaxation and avoiding excessive work or...
www.psypost.org

and thought the good (recumbent) minds on CFCOT might have something to say about it.

It's the first I've heard of the "lying flatism" movement. Would any of you characterize yourself as flat-lyers?

The article links that basic, minimalist lifestyle to also rejecting romantic involvement. To my mind the two might be separable (if you could find a fellow flat-lyer with whom to lie). So maybe I'm a flat-lyer outlier on that point.

Discuss.
 
Why is it called "lying flatism"? The article doesn't seem to clearly state if it comes from lying down and flat, or other combinations.

Edit: wiki says the following:

1687282892686.png
 
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that I remember, it was some sort of "protest" in China recently which wasn't really a protest so much as folks just deciding to take life at a slower pace, take time off, etc., which of course Beijing will consider to be counterrevolutionary or some such panic:
(I had to cheat a little and look it up)

Tang ping - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

though I think it's humorous that researchers have considered this as some sort of scientific "observation" on their part and not just a realization that, yeah, some people just don't want to do the things others would classify as being mainstream
 
Kyriakos said:
Why is it called "lying flatism"?
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My own assumption was that it was just the opposite of "climbing the ladder" (that society has set for you to climb.)

Plus, I figure, you'd spend a lot of your freed-up time, you know, lying flat.
 
Various millennial/zoomer and labor related-communities I've been in have talked about stuff like anti-work and lying-flat. Basically rejecting societal expectations of "working hard" because they don't see it actually being rewarded, and instead opt to go at their own pace, per OP. I am still in college so I have no idea what to expect, especially as someone with disabilities, but what I've seen from other Zillenials a few years ahead of me doesn't bring great hope.
 
I'm a lying-flatist, though I never heard the term before opening this thread.

A few thoughts on this.

People have a drastically inflated idea of how much their "hard work" is actually rewarded. Working hard creates the conditions for success, but there's usually a bunch of other people out there working just as hard as the one who "makes it." But no one really attributes their course in life to luck, to being in the right place at the right time or just happening to be the one who "made it."

Ambitious people I think have this problem more than many others, they believe that working hard leads to good things but it's just a kind of religious faith, no different than the general idea that being virtuous will earn you divine favor. It leads to mental health problems when the cognitive dissonance piles up too much.

To mind, individually-focused ambition is basically a disease or mental illness. It's a tragic inability to be satisfied or content, which is then perversely spun and presented as a positive trait.

Now, never let it be said that I blamed individuals for systemic problems! With the increasingly precarious existence most people are forced into I don't want to understate the degree to which #hustle is a learned/rational response to horsehockey conditions. I do still think it's an ultimately maladaptive response. Telling people to hustle harder doesn't work as a solution to collective problems because we can't all be startup founders and entrepreneurs, we need people to empty the trash cans and clean the toilets too.

Anyway tl;dr life is for living, and excessively ambitious people should consider therapy
 
Lexicus said:
But no one really attributes their course in life to luck, to being in the right place at the right time or just happening to be the one who "made it."
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Of course they do but they be lying and telling you and those around them a sugar coated tale on purpose. They have to tell the tale because women find the allusion more sexually attractive than the truth. So in heteronormative relationships it is the imperative of capitalistic men to deny the existence of their own privilege so as to dissuade females from believing they are boring, for to be exiting and thus sexually desirable one must lie and state all one's achievements was because of raw effort and physical/intellectual prowess/superiority.

It also shames other more interesting and desirable males into social ostracization and isolation by shaming them (if they are poor, the rich ones are exempt from this dynamic and still viable competitors) for being poor, thereby ensuring they cannot steal the capitalist man's GF.

Capitalism is in essence enforced by sex and the politics of sex (as well as the competition dynamics that surround it). More specifically male dominated heteronormative behavior of the cisgendered type.

Lexicus said:
Ambitious people I think have this problem more than many others, they believe that working hard leads to good things but it's just a kind of religious faith, no different than the general idea that being virtuous will earn you divine favor. It leads to mental health problems when the cognitive dissonance piles up too much.
Click to expand...

The religion is not for the priest nor does the priest actually believe in it. Rather the religion is for you the masses to believe so you feel guilty and forced into gaslighted compliance so the priest may take advantage (by embezzling your donations to the church, molesting your children, etc.)
 
Sounds sort of similar to "quiet quitting" which is where people do just enough in their jobs to get by but no more
Joij21 said:
Of course they do but they be lying and telling you and those around them a sugar coated tale on purpose. They have to tell the tale because women find the allusion more sexually attractive than the truth. So in heteronormative relationships it is the imperative of capitalistic men to deny the existence of their own privilege so as to dissuade females from believing they are boring, for to be exiting and thus sexually desirable one must lie and state all one's achievements was because of raw effort and physical/intellectual prowess/superiority.

It also shames other more interesting and desirable males into social ostracization and isolation by shaming them (if they are poor, the rich ones are exempt from this dynamic and still viable competitors) for being poor, thereby ensuring they cannot steal the capitalist man's GF.

Capitalism is in essence enforced by sex and the politics of sex (as well as the competition dynamics that surround it). More specifically male dominated heteronormative behavior of the cisgendered type.



The religion is not for the priest nor does the priest actually believe in it. Rather the religion is for you the masses to believe so you feel guilty and forced into gaslighted compliance so the priest may take advantage (by embezzling your donations to the church, molesting your children, etc.)
Click to expand...
more bullfeathers about what women find attractive from a man
 
danjuno said:
Various millennial/zoomer and labor related-communities I've been in have talked about stuff like anti-work and lying-flat. Basically rejecting societal expectations of "working hard" because they don't see it actually being rewarded, and instead opt to go at their own pace, per OP. I am still in college so I have no idea what to expect, especially as someone with disabilities, but what I've seen from other Zillenials a few years ahead of me doesn't bring great hope.
Click to expand...

I've heard of anti-work plenty but this is the first I've heard of lying flat.
 
AmazonQueen said:
Sounds sort of similar to "quiet quitting" which is where people do just enough in their jobs to get by but no more
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess

And as an aside, I always find it funny how the managerial/owner class came up with the phrase "quiet quitting" to make it sound like what the workers are doing is some kind of terrible affront, when what they're doing is "what their job description is and nothing more"
 
Working hard is great if you're growing food, maintaining water infrastructure or providing healthcare.

If you're an inspector Inspector, pointless carbon emitter or in the business of protecting property from general humanity, not so much.

Edit: Ooops, I forgot to actually communicate my point. Ummmm. Something something, some jobs are non-productive or even counter-productive and should be viewed as bribes to consent to the social order. Also, alienation of worker from outcomes. Etc. Whatever, I'm tired.
 
choxorn said:
Yeah, I guess

And as an aside, I always find it funny how the managerial/owner class came up with the phrase "quiet quitting" to make it sound like what the workers are doing is some kind of terrible affront, when what they're doing is "what their job description is and nothing more"
Click to expand...
I think they always called it "never volunteer for anything" in the US Army at least.

The idea being, managers are constantly looking out for people who will shoulder the heaviest burdens, so they themselves don't have to try and distribute workloads evenly between all staff.
 
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ı literally wasted my future in late 1980s . The girls who might have noticed would surely be the ones who might have noticed before ı gave up and was studying . But of course this semi famous Turkish song that goes "l had friends before l died" does not apply to me because ı didn't have much friendship ...

otherwise it is a Capitalist plot that has been far too effective . If internet lets ud learn everything -abolishing the boundaries of Ivy League and its thousand equivalents across the globe , then we should surely prefer a simple life of contentment so that the "nobles" will not be too pressured and will happily live the good life on our backs .
 
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first time i ever heard of this. from what i understand it, i just call it negative hedonism and negative hedonism is basically what i practice.

that said, probably not the same thing. let's make a list of thoughts.
- first off, very few people actually practice negative hedonism. afaik most hedonists are positive hedonists, and most conceptions of hedonism are positive. there's no negative hedonist "bible"; i know the term exists but have yet to meet another person trying to practice it, and noone who know what it is in conversation (i have read a few things on it). so even what i try to practice myself is only loosely defined to start with.
- so from there; i don't know about the chinese origin and how it differs from negative hedonism.
- and also; i don't know the relationship between the original tang ping and "lying flatism", things like this tend to get lost in translation

so, the singleness. the notes on singleness confuse me a bit, at least to what i practice myself. the point of negative hedonism is to minimize your dreams & needs so you are always satisfied. the point is not to abandon the world altogether; the point is to need as little of it as possible, as it's outside your control (and yes, this overlaps with the stoics, who also have their fair share of toxic elements today, sadly). it's good to be happy when single, as you can't (or rather, shouldn't) control when other people get together with you. the pressure from society wanting you to do stuff, and then willfully abandoning that pressure, that makes sense, and i guess society wants you to have babies, but on a personal level, someone engaging you for romance isn't inherently society pressuring you to get with that person. it makes sense you shouldn't feel you need to get together with the person out of societal pressure, but the question is rather, to me, what do you want yourself exactly? if you don't want to date that person, don't do it. if you want to date that person, do it. and for the latter, if you want to date that person - if you abandon your own happiness to spite society - i'm unsure how embracing such a movement is good for your happiness.
 
Plains-Cow said:
I JUST finished a video talking about this EXACT THING in China.

Creepy...
Click to expand...
I work REALLY HARD to anticipate where your online viewing is going, and I get up PRETTY EARLY IN THE MORNING to post threads that might correspond to that online viewing. Not like this younger generation of "lying-flatters."

Anyway, the movement seems

Anti-careerist
Anti-materialist
Anti-consumerist
Against letting society dictate what's going to count as success for you.

And further seems to be a way of positively calling out the premises of capitalism. All to the good.

I wish the lying-flatters all the success in the world. Or whatever.
 
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Angst said:
and yes, this overlaps with the stoics, who also have their fair share of toxic elements today, sadly
Click to expand...

So you're admitting your philosophy is also toxic and contrarian to human nature and the social instinctive need as social animals to gain social approval from others.
 
r16 said:
ı literally wasted my future in late 1980s . The girls who might have noticed would surely be the ones who might have noticed before ı gave up and was studying . But of course this semi famous Turkish song that goes "l had friends before l died" does not apply to me because ı didn't have much friendship ...

otherwise it is a Capitalist plot that has been far too effective . If internet lets learn us everything abolishing the boundaries of Ivy League and its thousand equivalents across the globe , then we should surely prefer a simple life of contentment so that the "nobles" will not be too pressured and will happily live the good life on our backs .
Click to expand...

Become communist and demand a welfare state to sustain yourself.
 
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